RE: Lotus Exige Sport 410: Driven

[Helicopter123]

[/quote]
...making it both more desirable and more profitable.
[/quote]

Lotus Cars still make a loss, and have done every year since 2007.

[Tuna]

Helicopter123 said:

Tuna said:

...making it both more desirable and more profitable.

Lotus Cars still make a loss, and have done every year since 2007.

People on here have strangely short memories. Lotus were in a deep hole. From there, you don't just find the switch marked 'Profit' and turn it on.

The changes Gales made have radically improved the line up, and yes, they are demonstrably more attractive to buyers.

Or do you think Geely bought them as a clever tax-write off?

[Helicopter123]

Tuna said:

Helicopter123 said:

Tuna said:

...making it both more desirable and more profitable.

Lotus Cars still make a loss, and have done every year since 2007.

People on here have strangely short memories. Lotus were in a deep hole. From there, you don't just find the switch marked 'Profit' and turn it on.

The changes Gales made have radically improved the line up, and yes, they are demonstrably more attractive to buyers.

Or do you think Geely bought them as a clever tax-write off?

I don't know why Geely bought them, I can't see lightweight sports cars anywhere in their history or DNA.

This worries me as Lotus has a terrific British heritage and pedigree.

[CABC]

Helicopter123 said:

I don't know why Geely bought them, I can't see lightweight sports cars anywhere in their history or DNA.

This worries me as Lotus has a terrific British heritage and pedigree.

i don't know either.
the hope is that sometimes the new countries (BRICKs) do a better job of preserving the heritage.
Ford didn't do a good job with Jaguar despite being a company with some motorsport heritage of its own.
I suspect Geely will leverage the heritage a lot in asian markets and also keep the halos alive for branding, if not passion.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

When the Evora first came out it was a cheapan 'expensive alternative to the Cayman'.

• Evora - from £47,500
• Cayman - from £39,000
• Cayman S - £44,000

[Helicopter123]

rockin said:

Tuna said:

When the Evora first came out it was a cheapan 'expensive alternative to the Cayman'.

• Evora - from £47,500
• Cayman - from £39,000
• Cayman S - £44,000

Base car OTR today is £76,815.

The 911 is from £77,981.

It's pitched against this rather than the Cayman which starts at £42,897.

[saaby93]

Helicopter123 said:

rockin said:

Tuna said:

When the Evora first came out it was a cheapan 'expensive alternative to the Cayman'.

• Evora - from £47,500
• Cayman - from £39,000
• Cayman S - £44,000

Base car OTR today is £76,815.

The 911 is from £77,981.

It's pitched against this rather than the Cayman which starts at £42,897.

I'm not convinced a Cayman is a 2+2, do you have a link showing the rear seats

[kambites]

CABC said:

Are there other alternatives?

The other option is to sell of assets, lay people off and scale back to a level of costs where 2k cars a year is viable.

I'm not trying to say that's the right thing for them to do, but I've always been rather bemused by the attitude in business that growth is automatically good.

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

The other option is to sell of assets, lay people off and scale back to a level of costs where 2k cars a year is viable.

I'm not trying to say that's the right thing for them to do, but I've always been rather bemused by the attitude in business that growth is automatically good.

Outside of owner/manager scenarios, every commercial business must aim to grow in value. The shareholders need to see the value of their investment going up, otherwise they ought to (and will) employ their capital elsewhere.

It might be that scaling down overhead could improve margin. Equally it could make it more difficult/expensive to scale up and materially increase the value of the business. A short term margin gain might make a longer term/bigger scale growth less easy.

I imagine Geely have decent pockets and would like to leverage the engineering talent and brand. Whether that means new Loti or not will be down to whatever their plan is.

Have they said what their plan is?

[kambites]

Sorry yes I meant grow in terms of product portfolio and sales volumes. Obviously making a profit is important.

Share values don't necessarily need to rise though. Profit fed dividends are a valid thing to aim for rather than increasing share prices.

[Helicopter123]

The danger is that Geely stick a Lotus badge on something non-Lotus developed and kill the brand dead.

[saaby93]

Helicopter123 said:

The danger is that Geely stick a Lotus badge on something non-Lotus developed and kill the brand dead.

The way the Isuzu Piazza did?
or the Proton Satria?

[Helicopter123]

saaby93 said:

Helicopter123 said:

The danger is that Geely stick a Lotus badge on something non-Lotus developed and kill the brand dead.

The way the Isuzu Piazza did?
or the Proton Satria?

Were either sold as Lotus models?

[saaby93]

Helicopter123 said:

saaby93 said:

Helicopter123 said:

The danger is that Geely stick a Lotus badge on something non-Lotus developed and kill the brand dead.

The way the Isuzu Piazza did?
or the Proton Satria?

Were either sold as Lotus models?

There was heavy marketing of the Lotus aspect - would they have sold any otherwise
What about the Lotus Carlton

[suffolk009]

That Exige 410 though. Wow. What a car! You don't often get near-unanimous agreement from the press that it's hit the sweet spot, a 4 or 5 tar car, 9/10, that sort of thing.

Personally I prefer a straight wing on the back, and I'd change a couple of details in the spec, and I'm not sure about all the black panels. But I get that black is very fashionable on cars right now. No idea why.

There. I thought it might be nice to discuss the car - rather than hypothesizing an MBA thesis on Chinese-financed business recovery in rural Norfolk.

[Helicopter123]

saaby93 said:

Helicopter123 said:

saaby93 said:

Helicopter123 said:

The danger is that Geely stick a Lotus badge on something non-Lotus developed and kill the brand dead.

The way the Isuzu Piazza did?
or the Proton Satria?

Were either sold as Lotus models?

There was heavy marketing of the Lotus aspect - would they have sold any otherwise
What about the Lotus Carlton

Lotus Carlton was a huge success for Lotus, as was the earlier Lotus Cortina.

I don'y think anyone would harbour deep concerns if Lotus were to be involved with something along those lines.

Picking a turd off the Geely production line and calling it a Lotus for sale in Europe though Lotus dealers is the worry.

[kambites]

Helicopter123 said:

Picking a turd off the Geely production line and calling it a Lotus for sale in Europe though Lotus dealers is the worry.

They don't appear to have done that with Volvo. They don't appear to have done such a thing with Volvo so I can't really see a reason to believe they will with Lotus.

[Tuna]

If we're playing the 'Fantasy car manufacturer game'....

Lotus are just not in a position to be a mass market manufacturer - wrong public perception, wrong dealer and service network, wrong vehicle architecture, wrong production line... they aren't in a position to make a Boxter or MX-5 competitor. Can't be done.

So they have to head towards the niche end of the market but do it well. As far as I can see there are two interesting options.

1. Finish off the job and get a halo model out there above the Evora. Something that gives Mclaren a fright. (The comparison with Mclaren is interesting, they are a technical manufacturer that took a while to get the public to like their 'mass market' offerings). Geely could task Lotus Engineering with producing a high end hybrid power train that in 'silly tuned' form could shove the Halo model round the track in giant killing times, but in softer tune could be stuck in Volvo's Executive range. Volvo get a 'cool' power train, Lotus get a differentiator for their halo model.

2. Get VVA working for Lotus. This was always a great proposition - that the structural components they were using to make the Evora etc. should allow them to go from drawing board to showroom in under 18 months, and to make a profit on low volume models due to low tooling costs. They should make this happen, and get Lotus producing the exciting niche stuff that Volvo can't - with the small possibility they can unlock a new market segment. They could produce the Lotus equivalent of the Nomad, serious track toys, 'real life concepts' that sell in small numbers but excite and entertain. It's sort of the ultimate expression of the Lotus special editions - a completely new car coming through the pipeline once a year or so and doing stuff that makes the mainstream manufacturers look boring.

Both of these options play to Lotus' strengths, build the marque as an exciting and interesting manufacturer without falling into the pit of trying to reach mainstream numbers with their cars. With a steady focus on improving the dealer network and getting the word out about a driven engineering and design team, they could grow beyond the limitations of a lineup that only petrolheads know about.

[Tuna]

suffolk009 said:

That Exige 410 though. Wow. What a car! You don't often get near-unanimous agreement from the press that it's hit the sweet spot, a 4 or 5 tar car, 9/10, that sort of thing.

Personally I prefer a straight wing on the back, and I'd change a couple of details in the spec, and I'm not sure about all the black panels. But I get that black is very fashionable on cars right now. No idea why.

There. I thought it might be nice to discuss the car - rather than hypothesizing an MBA thesis on Chinese-financed business recovery in rural Norfolk.

Lol. I think the message for Lotus is - "This is great, don't stop!"

Unless you're the sort of person who has their nose put out of joint by another marque doing well... I wonder where Mr Demon is these days?

[otolith]

Tuna said:

Unless you're the sort of person who has their nose put out of joint by another marque doing well... I wonder where Mr Demon is these days?

He likes this one (from the other thread on this)

Porsche911R said:

It does not have a rival.

I have been waiting for this car for 10 years lol or a car Lotus make I want.

This is a car I want and expected Lotus to make, so I am going to buy it :-)

no nayslaying Lotus from me on this model, you can all sit down.