RE: BMW M3 CS: Driven
Discussion
superlightr said:
Ares said:
OK - you're doing a 500 miles round trip, with the family, luggage and dog, to Scotland in a dry June. 300 miles on the motorway, 200 miles on nice sweeping A and B roads. Whilst there, you're going to take a trip further north.
The following week, you are visiting clients. You need to be smartly dressed, and may need to take theme of them out once you get there. The journey is across the Peak District.
Which car do you take for each journey that is always the perfect car?
that would be the RS6 The following week, you are visiting clients. You need to be smartly dressed, and may need to take theme of them out once you get there. The journey is across the Peak District.
Which car do you take for each journey that is always the perfect car?
will tow a van as well if you want BONUS
SidewaysSi said:
We can all make up hypothetical scenarios to fit our point of view but suffice to say, given my life and driving needs/wants/standards, a sole car cannot ever give me what I want. Fine for some and as I said before, that is great if someone feels a large saloon car does it all, but its not for me.
Unfortunately a new M3 does not have the on road interaction that I look for in any car, be it a fun daily or a weekend blatmobile, so it would ultimately lead to frustration.
Also you seem to assume it is one "good" car or a s
tbox and a weekender which takes all your funds. That is not necessarily the case. Surely having for example a Caterham, 911 and Defender in addition to your Alfa would be preferable. Whether you want to/can afford to/cope with the administration is a different matter.
To give you an answer to your question: Scenario 1, my BMW. Scenario 2, the Elise. Or the Seven.
You would take the clients out one at a time ?Unfortunately a new M3 does not have the on road interaction that I look for in any car, be it a fun daily or a weekend blatmobile, so it would ultimately lead to frustration.
Also you seem to assume it is one "good" car or a s
tbox and a weekender which takes all your funds. That is not necessarily the case. Surely having for example a Caterham, 911 and Defender in addition to your Alfa would be preferable. Whether you want to/can afford to/cope with the administration is a different matter.To give you an answer to your question: Scenario 1, my BMW. Scenario 2, the Elise. Or the Seven.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 May 18:28
In a Caterham ?
With no windscreen ?
I just can’t understand the issue here - I have an M4 Competition Pack, a Caterham, an F360, a 991 gt3, a 924s, a Lotus sunbeam, a z4 and a 986 boxster S - I have lots of reference points - and the m4 is probably the best overall compromise of the lot, especially for the price. Down your favourite twisty the car displays balance and adjustability and with the manual gearbox feels engaging and connected. Yes, it has electric steering which is a bit artificial. But my hydraulic Honda vtec civic had super light steering back in 1996 and it didnt stop it being a stellar car.
I think we just need to be really careful not to be too judgemental until extended seat time has been had. It’s a broad church of appeal out there and we have a lot of choices.
I think we just need to be really careful not to be too judgemental until extended seat time has been had. It’s a broad church of appeal out there and we have a lot of choices.
Brooking10 said:
It’s this sort of snide elitist “I’m more of an enthusiast than you” bks that rattles my cage quite so much.
Me too, it's tedious. The level of pretentiousness (not sure that's a word) about NA and manual boxes particularly epitomises the confusion between personal preference and facts (and I prefer both).ks that rattles my cage quite so much.
Julian Thompson said:
I just can’t understand the issue here - I have an M4 Competition Pack, a Caterham, an F360, a 991 gt3, a 924s, a Lotus sunbeam, a z4 and a 986 boxster S - I have lots of reference points - and the m4 is probably the best overall compromise of the lot, especially for the price.
What ? You have formed an opinion based on actual experience ?
Ares said:
Exactly, feel is one of the biggest aspects, for me. And to demonstrably better the feel that my car has, you would need to blow at least half the budget on a Caterham or more focused Elise, meaning the family/daily hack would be even more compromised.
Some are happy to have an ultimate car for 10% of the time, and a stbox for the rest. I don't want to spend 90% of my time in a stbox.
Just out of interest (and I'm sure you've said so before but I never read it), why did you go for the QV over the M3 (and I'm assuming that you've driven both)? I seem to recall that you've had BMWs in the past? I love both but might lean towards the M3. They both look great in my opinion, the Alfa is probably quicker and sounds a bit better and is a bit more exotic but...I have wanted an M3 ever since the E46 came out which is a big part of it and the fact that I can have a manual transmission swings it in the M3's favour for me. When the next generation M3 comes out and it's AWD and auto, then Alfa QV all the way! C63 not really in the same race for me. Big power and V8, yes but I'm not keen on where Mercedes have gone with their styling, it's a good chunk heavier and the new biturbo V8 sounds a bit synthetic to me compared to the old NA 6.2 V8.Some are happy to have an ultimate car for 10% of the time, and a s
tbox for the rest. I don't want to spend 90% of my time in a stbox.I totally get what you're saying about having one really nice car that covers all the bases (but get the other side of the argument too). We currently have an MPV for family duties which covers the practical, safe and comfortable bases very well and a MINI Cooper which is a fun and economical little commuter for me. As you can guess, we rarely go out as a family in the MINI because it's cramped for all four of us and has practically zero boot space and the MPV does what it does very well but offers no fun and involvement when the opportunity arises. Our previous family car was an Impreza WRX Wagon. Granted, not as practical, safe or comfortable as the MPV but a better compromise than the two cars that we have now (well, not the economical bit). I could comfortably commute in it, enjoy it on track and for fast road driving, good long distance cruiser, very secure in inclement weather, fast, fit quite a lot of stuff in it etc. and the M3/QV offer this with a bit more of everything, albeit at a higher price point and that package is very appealing.
Sure, in an ideal world, I would have something more focussed (458/488 Spider maybe?) for pure driving thrills but in the real world, splitting the budget might be a compromise for one or both of the cars and depending where you live or on your lifestyle, it might not be practical to run and store two cars. If I could only have one car, the M3/QV covers all the bases very well (although arguably one could say that a 335i/340i is 80% of the car for significantly less). Bigger stuff like the M5/E63 offers even more space/luxury/performance but then I think would be a bit more compromised by their weight/size on B-roads/track.
Re this M3 CS, it's very cool but personally, I wouldn't spend that much money on an M3 but then I'm not really the target market, as I'd be looking at a used F80 M3/QV anyway.
I'm two days into M3 CP ownership and it's all the car I could ever want (I'm in the one-car camp too).
Love the looks, finesse, that DCT 'box and how it goes about its business. Sounds slightly better than I was expecting too, although this is my first BMW M car. It definitely feels E39 5 Series size to me.
Only downside so far is that it doesn't appear to come 'alive' until over 80 leptons... Don't think I'll have my license much longer.
This CS seems excessive. For the money I'd have the new M5.
Love the looks, finesse, that DCT 'box and how it goes about its business. Sounds slightly better than I was expecting too, although this is my first BMW M car. It definitely feels E39 5 Series size to me.
Only downside so far is that it doesn't appear to come 'alive' until over 80 leptons... Don't think I'll have my license much longer.
This CS seems excessive. For the money I'd have the new M5.
Integra975 said:
This then, the most dreadful of aricles, both grammitically flawed and effusively prosaik, ironically indescriptif and riddles with riddled.
Not sure if you're being serious or not, but either way, you should take a look at your own spelling first! Shouldn't it be "riddled with riddles" rather than "riddles with riddled", too?I was a BMW fan back in the days but probably because it was the best car that I can afford. Moved on to my dream car Porsche Carrera and Lambo Gallardo and I realized something. Most of the cars that I owned had two doors except for the Honda CR-V and also the Buick which was officially not mine but my dad gave it to me. Possibly the worst car that I ever driven in my life.
I found that I enjoy sharp cornering and that gotten be in trouble in the Buick several times and the Lambo on a rainy day. Basically, don’t do sharp cornering in the rain. While the BMW delivers the goods on the corners and way better than my prior Nissan 240SX, my Porsche is even better like 10x better! The Lambo is not too shabby on the dry but just not that nimble. The Carrera just sticks on the road even on wet roads and feels solid.
While I always feel something for BMW since that was my first manual car and had some really good fun learning stick on it, the new BMW is filled with electronics and the annoying fake engine noise so hard to go back to that. It is more likely my next car is a GT-R, a more superior car or just not upgrade and keep the Porsche. In any case, buying a car for me is quite simple - must be 2 doors and 4 exhaust pipes. But I will make an exception for a 458
I found that I enjoy sharp cornering and that gotten be in trouble in the Buick several times and the Lambo on a rainy day. Basically, don’t do sharp cornering in the rain. While the BMW delivers the goods on the corners and way better than my prior Nissan 240SX, my Porsche is even better like 10x better! The Lambo is not too shabby on the dry but just not that nimble. The Carrera just sticks on the road even on wet roads and feels solid.
While I always feel something for BMW since that was my first manual car and had some really good fun learning stick on it, the new BMW is filled with electronics and the annoying fake engine noise so hard to go back to that. It is more likely my next car is a GT-R, a more superior car or just not upgrade and keep the Porsche. In any case, buying a car for me is quite simple - must be 2 doors and 4 exhaust pipes. But I will make an exception for a 458
white_goodman said:
Ares said:
Exactly, feel is one of the biggest aspects, for me. And to demonstrably better the feel that my car has, you would need to blow at least half the budget on a Caterham or more focused Elise, meaning the family/daily hack would be even more compromised.
Some are happy to have an ultimate car for 10% of the time, and a stbox for the rest. I don't want to spend 90% of my time in a stbox.
Just out of interest (and I'm sure you've said so before but I never read it), why did you go for the QV over the M3 (and I'm assuming that you've driven both)? I seem to recall that you've had BMWs in the past? I love both but might lean towards the M3. They both look great in my opinion, the Alfa is probably quicker and sounds a bit better and is a bit more exotic but...I have wanted an M3 ever since the E46 came out which is a big part of it and the fact that I can have a manual transmission swings it in the M3's favour for me. When the next generation M3 comes out and it's AWD and auto, then Alfa QV all the way! C63 not really in the same race for me. Big power and V8, yes but I'm not keen on where Mercedes have gone with their styling, it's a good chunk heavier and the new biturbo V8 sounds a bit synthetic to me compared to the old NA 6.2 V8.Some are happy to have an ultimate car for 10% of the time, and a s
tbox for the rest. I don't want to spend 90% of my time in a stbox.I totally get what you're saying about having one really nice car that covers all the bases (but get the other side of the argument too). We currently have an MPV for family duties which covers the practical, safe and comfortable bases very well and a MINI Cooper which is a fun and economical little commuter for me. As you can guess, we rarely go out as a family in the MINI because it's cramped for all four of us and has practically zero boot space and the MPV does what it does very well but offers no fun and involvement when the opportunity arises. Our previous family car was an Impreza WRX Wagon. Granted, not as practical, safe or comfortable as the MPV but a better compromise than the two cars that we have now (well, not the economical bit). I could comfortably commute in it, enjoy it on track and for fast road driving, good long distance cruiser, very secure in inclement weather, fast, fit quite a lot of stuff in it etc. and the M3/QV offer this with a bit more of everything, albeit at a higher price point and that package is very appealing.
Sure, in an ideal world, I would have something more focussed (458/488 Spider maybe?) for pure driving thrills but in the real world, splitting the budget might be a compromise for one or both of the cars and depending where you live or on your lifestyle, it might not be practical to run and store two cars. If I could only have one car, the M3/QV covers all the bases very well (although arguably one could say that a 335i/340i is 80% of the car for significantly less). Bigger stuff like the M5/E63 offers even more space/luxury/performance but then I think would be a bit more compromised by their weight/size on B-roads/track.
Re this M3 CS, it's very cool but personally, I wouldn't spend that much money on an M3 but then I'm not really the target market, as I'd be looking at a used F80 M3/QV anyway.
t, I'd have bought one nearly 2 years ago. But they are, so I didn't.The QV is quicker, is a little bit more 'different' and less 'follow the flock', but the single biggest clincher, and it is huge, is the drive. The M3 is great. Fast, solid, very sold. But over sprung and under damped. It feels almost ponderous up to 7/10ths, and by the time is comes alive you are struggling to hold onto your licence.
Conversely, the QV is just alive. Even at near pedestrian speeds, it is totally organic and you just feel connected to every part of it. Speed of reaction, feel, outright fun, it is just spine tingling. 12,000 miles later, I still ache to drive it.
I actually prefer the noise of the M3 to the QV, and prefer to noise of the C63s to them both. I also preferred the drive of the C63s to the M3. But the Alfa just nails it. It was an easy decision in the end.
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