RE: BMW M3 CS: Driven
Discussion
I think you have to be pretty hateful and prejudiced towards BMW to say the M3/4 is not a very nice looking car.
If it had an Alfa badge stuck on the nose people would have a permanent semi. The flares, the lines, the lights, the proportions, it's all right, all how it should be.
The E9X M's looked a bit bland and often hard to spot from a nice 335 M Sport, but these are unquestionably a different car from their stablemates .
Some one alluded to not being able to walk past a 600bhp M5 to buy one of these. I can think of a few reasons why you would
An M5 is more expensive with no options ticked. It'll be a lot lot more with carbon brakes etc.
It won't be a special addition, it'll be a "standard" one.
Because of the above there's no chance of investment and resale value one day (slim chance on the M3 CS)
It'll be a much bigger car. It's not a little bit bigger, it's a lot bigger.
If it had an Alfa badge stuck on the nose people would have a permanent semi. The flares, the lines, the lights, the proportions, it's all right, all how it should be.
The E9X M's looked a bit bland and often hard to spot from a nice 335 M Sport, but these are unquestionably a different car from their stablemates .
Some one alluded to not being able to walk past a 600bhp M5 to buy one of these. I can think of a few reasons why you would
An M5 is more expensive with no options ticked. It'll be a lot lot more with carbon brakes etc.
It won't be a special addition, it'll be a "standard" one.
Because of the above there's no chance of investment and resale value one day (slim chance on the M3 CS)
It'll be a much bigger car. It's not a little bit bigger, it's a lot bigger.
Ares said:
Have you driven many?
E92 and F80. None of the 5 or 6 series models, which are the ones I probably like the most (but don't know any owners). Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
Actus Reus said:
Ares said:
Have you driven many?
E92 and F80. None of the 5 or 6 series models, which are the ones I probably like the most (but don't know any owners). Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
And yes, this Ltd Ed is 991 money, but it's a Ltd Ed, the base car, or at least the CP, comes in at not much over half the price.....and you do know you are allowed to drive the car without 4 passengers in sometimes? And at other time with 4 passengers?
The idea is to have a car that can give fast performance AND family/load-lugging. The two occurrences don't have to happen together to make the car relevant
What should fast saloons offer to hit the mark for you? Because for me, they (M3/QV/C63s) hit the mark near perfectly.
PHMatt said:
I think you have to be pretty hateful and prejudiced towards BMW to say the M3/4 is not a very nice looking car.
If it had an Alfa badge stuck on the nose people would have a permanent semi. The flares, the lines, the lights, the proportions, it's all right, all how it should be.
Detractors can't see past the badge though If it had an Alfa badge stuck on the nose people would have a permanent semi. The flares, the lines, the lights, the proportions, it's all right, all how it should be.
Actus Reus said:
E92 and F80. None of the 5 or 6 series models, which are the ones I probably like the most (but don't know any owners).
Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
Guess what?Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
There are 7.6 billion people on the planet and they all have different things that they like.
Ares said:
In that case, I can't see why you can't even get excited by them? Perhaps not the pinnacle or automotive perfection, but not not get in any way excited by driving an M3/M4 sound disingenuous IMO.
And yes, this Ltd Ed is 991 money, but it's a Ltd Ed, the base car, or at least the CP, comes in at not much over half the price.....and you do know you are allowed to drive the car without 4 passengers in sometimes? And at other time with 4 passengers?
The idea is to have a car that can give fast performance AND family/load-lugging. The two occurrences don't have to happen together to make the car relevant
What should fast saloons offer to hit the mark for you? Because for me, they (M3/QV/C63s) hit the mark near perfectly.
I'm a fully paid member of the light is best school of thought when it comes to having fun - thus I'd rather have something for family duties and then something for fun. May not be possible for some people and that's fine, I'm not suggesting in any way that it's a bad car - just not for me. To answer the question though, I guess they'd need to be lighter and a bit easier to enjoy at lower speeds. And yes, this Ltd Ed is 991 money, but it's a Ltd Ed, the base car, or at least the CP, comes in at not much over half the price.....and you do know you are allowed to drive the car without 4 passengers in sometimes? And at other time with 4 passengers?
The idea is to have a car that can give fast performance AND family/load-lugging. The two occurrences don't have to happen together to make the car relevant
What should fast saloons offer to hit the mark for you? Because for me, they (M3/QV/C63s) hit the mark near perfectly.
To that end I'd be happy for BMW to chuck all this M3 stuff in the bin, and make me an affordable, fast, roadster. Not gonna happen obvs.
Actus Reus said:
I'm a fully paid member of the light is best school of thought when it comes to having fun - thus I'd rather have something for family duties and then something for fun. May not be possible for some people and that's fine, I'm not suggesting in any way that it's a bad car - just not for me. To answer the question though, I guess they'd need to be lighter and a bit easier to enjoy at lower speeds.
To that end I'd be happy for BMW to chuck all this M3 stuff in the bin, and make me an affordable, fast, roadster. Not gonna happen obvs.
Having done the 2 car thing, I realised a single car was better - I spent majority of time in one of my 2-car set-ups wishing I was in the other.....especially the daily driver that I wished was a little/lot more fun.To that end I'd be happy for BMW to chuck all this M3 stuff in the bin, and make me an affordable, fast, roadster. Not gonna happen obvs.
Now getting into one car that can give 90/95/99% of the thrills of a sportscar but all the practicality of a family car was a perfect solution. To that end, the notion of a lightweight car (or more lightweight than the 1500/1600kg current breed) is not feasible in the current world, unless you are going to bring in more compromise than you can trade-off.
BMW are not about lightweight sports cars, never have been. That's Lotus/Caterham/etc. BMW (and their contemporaries) give, and have always given, driving thrill in a sensible package.
I do agree on the M3 at slow speeds though, thats one of areas I think they lose a massive amount of ground to the competitors. Feel heavy below 7/10th, and above 7/10ths you are typically too fast for anything but a quick squirt on a public highway.
F1GTRUeno said:
Actus Reus said:
E92 and F80. None of the 5 or 6 series models, which are the ones I probably like the most (but don't know any owners).
Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
Guess what?Much as people bemoan PH talking about price, I cannot fathom why you'd want a £90k M3 over a 991.2. If you really MUST have four doors, I don't see the value in buying something so fast, either. I'd never drive an M3 even near its potential with passengers.
As I said - these fast saloons miss the mark for me, BMWs in particular.
There are 7.6 billion people on the planet and they all have different things that they like.
Ares said:
Having done the 2 car thing, I realised a single car was better - I spent majority of time in one of my 2-car set-ups wishing I was in the other.....especially the daily driver that I wished was a little/lot more fun.
Now getting into one car that can give 90/95/99% of the thrills of a sportscar but all the practicality of a family car was a perfect solution. To that end, the notion of a lightweight car (or more lightweight than the 1500/1600kg current breed) is not feasible in the current world, unless you are going to bring in more compromise than you can trade-off.
BMW are not about lightweight sports cars, never have been. That's Lotus/Caterham/etc. BMW (and their contemporaries) give, and have always given, driving thrill in a sensible package.
I do agree on the M3 at slow speeds though, thats one of areas I think they lose a massive amount of ground to the competitors. Feel heavy below 7/10th, and above 7/10ths you are typically too fast for anything but a quick squirt on a public highway.
Yeah, I think our usage differs - during the week I'm on a train, at the weekend I'm with the family so 200hp is enough, or I'm on my own, whereupon lightweight and ideally fun below 80mph is key. I almost never 'go to places' in a car, on my own. If an opportunity to drive for fun appears, it's because I've had to go looking for it.Now getting into one car that can give 90/95/99% of the thrills of a sportscar but all the practicality of a family car was a perfect solution. To that end, the notion of a lightweight car (or more lightweight than the 1500/1600kg current breed) is not feasible in the current world, unless you are going to bring in more compromise than you can trade-off.
BMW are not about lightweight sports cars, never have been. That's Lotus/Caterham/etc. BMW (and their contemporaries) give, and have always given, driving thrill in a sensible package.
I do agree on the M3 at slow speeds though, thats one of areas I think they lose a massive amount of ground to the competitors. Feel heavy below 7/10th, and above 7/10ths you are typically too fast for anything but a quick squirt on a public highway.
If I used it to commute or actually for work, different story (at that point I'd want a QV I think - never so much as sat in one, but love the looks).
In my shoes though, £90k (or whatever you'd actually have to really pay for one of these) would be spent on a boring family hack and then perhaps an Exige V6. Indeed that's exactly what I am planning to do (or something similar anyway).
Ares said:
Actus Reus said:
I'm a fully paid member of the light is best school of thought when it comes to having fun - thus I'd rather have something for family duties and then something for fun. May not be possible for some people and that's fine, I'm not suggesting in any way that it's a bad car - just not for me. To answer the question though, I guess they'd need to be lighter and a bit easier to enjoy at lower speeds.
To that end I'd be happy for BMW to chuck all this M3 stuff in the bin, and make me an affordable, fast, roadster. Not gonna happen obvs.
Having done the 2 car thing, I realised a single car was better - I spent majority of time in one of my 2-car set-ups wishing I was in the other.....especially the daily driver that I wished was a little/lot more fun.To that end I'd be happy for BMW to chuck all this M3 stuff in the bin, and make me an affordable, fast, roadster. Not gonna happen obvs.
Now getting into one car that can give 90/95/99% of the thrills of a sportscar but all the practicality of a family car was a perfect solution. To that end, the notion of a lightweight car (or more lightweight than the 1500/1600kg current breed) is not feasible in the current world, unless you are going to bring in more compromise than you can trade-off.
BMW are not about lightweight sports cars, never have been. That's Lotus/Caterham/etc. BMW (and their contemporaries) give, and have always given, driving thrill in a sensible package.
I do agree on the M3 at slow speeds though, thats one of areas I think they lose a massive amount of ground to the competitors. Feel heavy below 7/10th, and above 7/10ths you are typically too fast for anything but a quick squirt on a public highway.
A 3 series is never rare. Silly money for what I'm sure is a decent car, but I honestly don't get it anymore. The powertrains of almost every new car are indistinguishable. I'm sure the Alfa sounds a little better, but it's on a scale of dull to bland.
An M3 was an event - a little piece of exotic for the every day slog. Now I'm not sure why anyone would bother. It never was about speed, but it's become all anything's about now. An absence of character has to be compensated for somehow I suppose, but I would never buy anything that didn't charm.
An M3 was an event - a little piece of exotic for the every day slog. Now I'm not sure why anyone would bother. It never was about speed, but it's become all anything's about now. An absence of character has to be compensated for somehow I suppose, but I would never buy anything that didn't charm.
Gameface said:
Wills2 said:
p1stonhead said:
Isn’t the current one very well received?
E46 was a long time ago.
I thought the V8 was also well reviewed.
Yes but this is PH and this is a new car that costs a lot therefore it must be slated, it's the law. E46 was a long time ago.
I thought the V8 was also well reviewed.
The current model was very poorly received at launch.
It's subsequently been honed with the competition pack etc and is a better car for it now.
Here's some bloke who thinks he knows what he's talking about receiving it poorly...not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqGX7Y0GZXE
Edited by Wills2 on Monday 21st May 15:20
Mackofthejungle said:
A 3 series is never rare. Silly money for what I'm sure is a decent car, but I honestly don't get it anymore. The powertrains of almost every new car are indistinguishable. I'm sure the Alfa sounds a little better, but it's on a scale of dull to bland.
This - you have everything from an M140 to the M3 CS using a turbo'd straight six with practically the same displacement - thus robbing them somewhat of individuality. I think my next car will probably be an M140 with aftermarket diff, suspension and tune - it might not be an 'M' but it will at least feel special.Edited by fido on Monday 21st May 15:30
Bencolem said:
Ricky Lane said:
There's Alcantara on the centre-console and dashboard, which is economical with switchgear but exhibits no meaningful lack of functionality.
Is Ricky Lane a pseudonym by Nic Cackett? Another article with flowery writing where I’m not sure if the car is good or not...The dashboard and console are covered in Alcantara, and they don't have too many buttons/switches, but doesn't lack any real functionality because of it?
I sometimes wonder if PH needs to dumb down to words with less than 2 syllables
On thing I did spot in the review that I don't think I had read before was:
"Being a saloon, this is also a stiffer car than the M4 CS".
Where does that come from? Accepted fact? Why should that be the case? In some respects you might expect the opposite to be true with a bigger gap in the shell where the doors would be.
Is this a case of PH make believe?
"Being a saloon, this is also a stiffer car than the M4 CS".
Where does that come from? Accepted fact? Why should that be the case? In some respects you might expect the opposite to be true with a bigger gap in the shell where the doors would be.
Is this a case of PH make believe?
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