Two Knobs - Ferrari vs Porsche

[Halmyre]

Vanin said:

Gameface said:

Andy 308GTB said:

ecsrobin said:

I believe the passenger in the Ferrari was a set of golf clubs.

Arrest the Driver?

That would be the thin end of the wedge...

I can see this going a fair way if we do not iron it out now. Many people will be chipping in with their pitches.

I always start my drives with a "Blondie" (fair crack down the middle)

Time for tee....................

I think this golf punning has run its course.

[Gameface]

Halmyre said:

Vanin said:

Gameface said:

Andy 308GTB said:

ecsrobin said:

I believe the passenger in the Ferrari was a set of golf clubs.

Arrest the Driver?

That would be the thin end of the wedge...

I can see this going a fair way if we do not iron it out now. Many people will be chipping in with their pitches.

I always start my drives with a "Blondie" (fair crack down the middle)

Time for tee....................

I think this golf punning has run its course.

Both cars displayed weak grip

This whole story is a classic bump and run.

And leaving the scene just makes you look like a div(ot)...

[Shuvi McTupya]

Gameface said:

Both cars displayed weak grip

This whole story is a classic bump and run.

And leaving the scene just makes you look like a div(ot)...

Nicely put(t).

[Buster73]

XDA said:

He hasn't. According to the Sunday Times rich list, he owns 50% of the £46m family business, which presumably the £46m is mostly assets held.

It goes on to say that in 2016, the company profit was £2.3m on sales of £27.9m. Not exactly massive numbers.

Even more so when you take the price advertised on some of their stock , could work out at only a few cars a week being sold .

[Nickp82]

Buster73 said:

Even more so when you take the price advertised on some of their stock , could work out at only a few cars a week being sold .

Sell a couple of cars a week to make £2.3m? Yes please!!

[hyphen]

blueg33 said:

80sMatchbox said:

2.3m is not exactly small change but I was expecting the numbers to be bigger than that. Tom Hartley Jnr certainly makes makes more than that, I could imagine he did on one sale alone, on the F1.

Is that net profit or gross profit? Very different things. To what extent is the business geared? Etc etc. Just quoting number like that is meaningless.

But if it’s net, just under 10% is ok. Turnover is lower than I would have expected. Is that for the whole group? Does it cover their property investments?

As above, never trust an accounting figure without looking at the details behind it.

[XDA]

Wills2 said:

XDA said:

He hasn't. According to the Sunday Times rich list, he owns 50% of the £46m family business, which presumably the £46m is mostly assets held.

It goes on to say that in 2016, the company profit was £2.3m on sales of £27.9m. Not exactly massive numbers.

No they are not massive, let me check mine er actually let's not.

Seen as how mine are pathetic in comparison why don't you put up yours big boy? And show everyone a real baller.

I just expected it to be a lot more. I wouldn't turn down £2.3m. It is "only" 50% of £2.3m before tax.

My point was that it's reported that someone is worth £30m when in reality, the numbers are a lot smaller.

[XDA]

hyphen said:

blueg33 said:

80sMatchbox said:

2.3m is not exactly small change but I was expecting the numbers to be bigger than that. Tom Hartley Jnr certainly makes makes more than that, I could imagine he did on one sale alone, on the F1.

Is that net profit or gross profit? Very different things. To what extent is the business geared? Etc etc. Just quoting number like that is meaningless.

But if it’s net, just under 10% is ok. Turnover is lower than I would have expected. Is that for the whole group? Does it cover their property investments?

As above, never trust an accounting figure without looking at the details behind it.

Turnover - £27.9m
Gross - £3.4m
Profit before tax - £2.3m
Profit after tax - £1.7m

So 50% of £1.7m. Nice to have of course but to say you're worth £30m?

[TooMany2cvs]

A large part of the value of the business is in the brand name. He's quoted repeatedly has having turned down £250m for the rights to it. Whether you believe that story or not, it's definitely a valuable asset.

XDA said:

Turnover - £27.9m
Gross - £3.4m
Profit before tax - £2.3m
Profit after tax - £1.7m

So 50% of £1.7m. Nice to have of course but to say you're worth £30m?

That's not how businesses are valued...

I have some shares. They didn't pay a dividend this year. Are they worthless? No, of course not.

[Cold]

TooMany2cvs said:

A large part of the value of the business is in the brand name. He's quoted repeatedly has having turned down £250m for the rights to it. Whether you believe that story or not, it's definitely a valuable asset.

His father's name perhaps. His name, not so much.

[TooMany2cvs]

Cold said:

His father's name perhaps. His name, not so much.

He owns 50% of the shares in the business.
The business has the rights to use his father's name.

[Buster73]

TooMany2cvs said:

A large part of the value of the business is in the brand name. He's quoted repeatedly has having turned down £250m for the rights to it. Whether you believe that story or not, it's definitely a valuable asset.

£250m for the naming rights of a company making £2m a year ?

Never heard anything so daft for years , but saying that both him and his family are masters of self publicity .

[Alpinestars]

XDA said:

Wills2 said:

XDA said:

He hasn't. According to the Sunday Times rich list, he owns 50% of the £46m family business, which presumably the £46m is mostly assets held.

It goes on to say that in 2016, the company profit was £2.3m on sales of £27.9m. Not exactly massive numbers.

No they are not massive, let me check mine er actually let's not.

Seen as how mine are pathetic in comparison why don't you put up yours big boy? And show everyone a real baller.

I just expected it to be a lot more. I wouldn't turn down £2.3m. It is "only" 50% of £2.3m before tax.

My point was that it's reported that someone is worth £30m when in reality, the numbers are a lot smaller.

Three things.

A company is normally valued on a multiple.I don’t know what EBITDA is, but even if it were only £5m, that’ll be your £30m valuation pretty easily.

Second, you don’t know if that pre tax number is post a big salary.

Third, you don’t know what other assets he owns.

[MWM3]

TooMany2cvs said:

That's not how businesses are valued...

I have some shares. They didn't pay a dividend this year. Are they worthless? No, of course not.

No dividends paid this year but company does owe him £1.2m.

[MWM3]

Alpinestars said:

Three things.

A company is normally valued on a multiple.I don’t know what EBITDA is, but even if it were only £5m, that’ll be your £30m valuation pretty easily.

Second, you don’t know if that pre tax number is post a big salary.

Third, you don’t know what other assets he owns.

Yes you do, read the accounts I posted link to earlier. Directors didn't take salary or divs last year. Wife paid £50k salary.

[anonymous-user]

MWM3 said:

Yes you do, read the accounts I posted link to earlier. Directors didn't take salary or divs last year. Wife paid £50k salary.

All this aside it's probably fair to say that Carl and his clan are considerably richer than the vast majority of PHers, at the very least in asset terms.

What relevance the last set or R&A has to the matter at hand is somewhat harder to discern.

[48k]

XDA said:

hyphen said:

blueg33 said:

80sMatchbox said:

2.3m is not exactly small change but I was expecting the numbers to be bigger than that. Tom Hartley Jnr certainly makes makes more than that, I could imagine he did on one sale alone, on the F1.

Is that net profit or gross profit? Very different things. To what extent is the business geared? Etc etc. Just quoting number like that is meaningless.

But if it’s net, just under 10% is ok. Turnover is lower than I would have expected. Is that for the whole group? Does it cover their property investments?

As above, never trust an accounting figure without looking at the details behind it.

Turnover - £27.9m
Gross - £3.4m
Profit before tax - £2.3m
Profit after tax - £1.7m

So 50% of £1.7m. Nice to have of course but to say you're worth £30m?

Newsflash: if the papers are asking, numbers are big. If the taxman is asking, numbers are small.

[Alpinestars]

MWM3 said:

Alpinestars said:

Three things.

A company is normally valued on a multiple.I don’t know what EBITDA is, but even if it were only £5m, that’ll be your £30m valuation pretty easily.

Second, you don’t know if that pre tax number is post a big salary.

Third, you don’t know what other assets he owns.

Yes you do, read the accounts I posted link to earlier. Directors didn't take salary or divs last year. Wife paid £50k salary.

Thanks. I didn’t have the detail. Do you know what his other assets are, or the valuation of the company which could well account for a large amount/all of his reported wealth?

[anonymous-user]

Alpinestars said:

MWM3 said:

Alpinestars said:

Three things.

A company is normally valued on a multiple.I don’t know what EBITDA is, but even if it were only £5m, that’ll be your £30m valuation pretty easily.

Second, you don’t know if that pre tax number is post a big salary.

Third, you don’t know what other assets he owns.

Yes you do, read the accounts I posted link to earlier. Directors didn't take salary or divs last year. Wife paid £50k salary.

Thanks. I didn’t have the detail. Do you know what his other assets are, or the valuation of the company which could well account for a large amount/all of his reported wealth?

The group has significant property assets.

TH snr has been buying up park homes over several years.

[Buster73]

Alpinestars said:

Thanks. I didn’t have the detail. Do you know what his other assets are, or the valuation of the company which could well account for a large amount/all of his reported wealth?

Companies House is a good point of reference for a starting point of a valuation.

Search Tom Hartley Cars
Find his latest accounts
Then click on People/ Carl Hartley

You'll find all the info you need