Two Knobs - Ferrari vs Porsche

[Buster73]

Dave Hedgehog said:

They don’t payout if your negligent and leave the keys in a car or if your done for drunk driving

Neither of which apply to the above incident if I’ve read it correctly, your point being ?

[Durzel]

agtlaw: Is the Porsche driver likely to get a much stiffer punishment having pleaded NG and maintained that throughout trial, and been found guilty, or is it likely to be about the same given that Carl Hartley legged it?

[Buster73]

Durzel said:

agtlaw: Is the Porsche driver likely to get a much stiffer punishment having pleaded NG and maintained that throughout trial, and been found guilty, or is it likely to be about the same given that Carl Hartley legged it?

Think they’ll both go down , I could be wrong but pleading guilty is good for mitigation , I’d imagine he’ll get marginally less.

Neither will be a loss to society off the road for a bit.

[Rawwr]

I know that when I crash my car due to mechanical failure, the first thing I think to do is to run away from the car, as fast and as far as possible. It's absolute, positively, definitely NOT because I was drunk.

[SkinnyPete]

Buster73 said:

SkinnyPete said:

Would your insurance even pay out in circumstances like this?

Why wouldn’t it ?

For the same reason they won’t pay out if you are drunk or on drugs?

I don’t know, which is why I am asking the question.

[agtlaw]

Durzel said:

agtlaw: Is the Porsche driver likely to get a much stiffer punishment having pleaded NG and maintained that throughout trial, and been found guilty, or is it likely to be about the same given that Carl Hartley legged it?

Guilty plea on the day of trial = 10% discount. Hardly worth it. Not a good strategy.

There are many factors to consider. The person pleading guilty may actually get a longer sentence than co-accused convicted after trial.
E.g. Onasanya.

[thelostboy]

If you ignore the utter tttery of this pair, it was a collision that hurt no-one; specifically no bystanders were maimed, injured or killed.

So, do you really think they will put people in jail for having a crash for going a bit over the limit? It's not the airbag data said they were doing 100mph in a 50mph - it was 68mph.

Hartley will have his long list of excuses, will paint himself in as good light as possible. I'd say jail is very unlikely.

I actually found it hard to find any examples of people being jailed for street racing. The following guys ignored specific warnings about racing in a particular area, and only got a suspended sentence (one went to jail for not bothering to show up to court).
https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/motorist-is-first-jail...

They were racing at 90+mph and I imagine didn't exactly have the best representation, nor a long list of excuses.

Also, be careful of what you wish for. I do not excuse Hartley at all, but I do feel that people want to see him punished because of his inherited success and wealth, as much as for what he has done.

Just remember, if Hartley and the Porsche driver are "made an example of", this worsens the reputation of performance cars and their drivers to the general population. I can just imagine the Daily Mail comments now - "speed kills!", "we should just ban these sort of cars from the roads!", "My Nissan Micra has all the performance you need".

[Driver101]

thelostboy said:

If you ignore the utter tttery of this pair, it was a collision that hurt no-one; specifically no bystanders were maimed, injured or killed.

So, do you really think they will put people in jail for having a crash for going a bit over the limit? It's not the airbag data said they were doing 100mph in a 50mph - it was 68mph.

Hartley will have his long list of excuses, will paint himself in as good light as possible. I'd say jail is very unlikely.

I actually found it hard to find any examples of people being jailed for street racing. The following guys ignored specific warnings about racing in a particular area, and only got a suspended sentence (one went to jail for not bothering to show up to court).
https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/motorist-is-first-jail...

They were racing at 90+mph and I imagine didn't exactly have the best representation, nor a long list of excuses.

Also, be careful of what you wish for. I do not excuse Hartley at all, but I do feel that people want to see him punished because of his inherited success and wealth, as much as for what he has done.

Just remember, if Hartley and the Porsche driver are "made an example of", this worsens the reputation of performance cars and their drivers to the general population. I can just imagine the Daily Mail comments now - "speed kills!", "we should just ban these sort of cars from the roads!", "My Nissan Micra has all the performance you need".

The airbag went off at 68mph. He might have reduced speed considerably before the impact.

They were filmed on other driver's dashcams. I'm sure that'll be more of a story than the final impact speed.

[Rogue86]

Driver101 said:

The airbag went off at 68mph. He might have reduced speed considerably before the impact.

On a roundabout I might add. One that you'd normally struggle to do 20mph on because of traffic... I'm kind of impressed! Well I might be if they stuck the landing.

Edited by Rogue86 on Thursday 14th November 10:18

[Durzel]

thelostboy said:

If you ignore the utter tttery of this pair, it was a collision that hurt no-one; specifically no bystanders were maimed, injured or killed.

So, do you really think they will put people in jail for having a crash for going a bit over the limit? It's not the airbag data said they were doing 100mph in a 50mph - it was 68mph.

This is such a st argument, sorry. There are plenty of people who drive well over the limit and have managed to get home safely to date because they either don't happen to come across anyone on the road, or are just lucky.

Whilst you can't strictly punish people as if they did actually harm someone, you absolutely can and should punish with consideration of the likelihood of this happening given the circumstances.

[J4CKO]

I think this is always going to colour peoples judgement a little as the chap is fairly well known, is wealthy and was being a dick.

Never going to go well for anyone being a penis in a Ferrari and having a big crash, read the Daily mail comments and even if he had crashed to save a busload of orphans they would be baying for blood as he has the temerity to be wealthy and have a nice car.

So putting the green eyed monster to one side, if it were a Mk4 Golf TDI and Fiesta 1.6 that crashed in similar circumstances, driven by a welder and a call centre gadge, would we still think a short prison sentence is in order ?

I think it is, especially with doing a disappearing act, you cant do that an expect to get away with it without any consequences.

[cerb4.5lee]

I can't see either of them going down just for this. If they'd injured pedestrians then it could be a different story I'd imagine though.

[Debaser]

SkinnyPete said:

For the same reason they won’t pay out if you are drunk or on drugs?

Won't they?

[J4CKO]

Debaser said:

SkinnyPete said:

For the same reason they won’t pay out if you are drunk or on drugs?

Won't they?

I think insurers generally do pay out, based on the fact that they have accepted the risk, the issue is getting insured again for anything like a reasonable price when you have done something catastrophically stupid that has cost them money, its bad enough when you have an accident that wasnt your fault.

[otolith]

A minority of insurers have clauses restricting when they will pay out to the policyholder.

[thelostboy]

Durzel said:

thelostboy said:

If you ignore the utter tttery of this pair, it was a collision that hurt no-one; specifically no bystanders were maimed, injured or killed.

So, do you really think they will put people in jail for having a crash for going a bit over the limit? It's not the airbag data said they were doing 100mph in a 50mph - it was 68mph.

This is such a st argument, sorry. There are plenty of people who drive well over the limit and have managed to get home safely to date because they either don't happen to come across anyone on the road, or are just lucky.

Whilst you can't strictly punish people as if they did actually harm someone, you absolutely can and should punish with consideration of the likelihood of this happening given the circumstances.

This isn't the Minority Report, you can't chuck people in jail for what might have happened.

I agree with what you're saying, but I just don't think they'll go to jail because nothing was actually damaged other than their own, insured cars.

[RumbleOfThunder]

Don't forget the fact that Hartley fled the scene of the accident.

[Downward]

Wonderman said:

CRA1G said:

I'm sure Mr teflon,Nick Freeman will work his wonders... wasn't it said Hartley ran away fearing for his reputation from the laughing of bystanders...

I’m sure he will get off the jammie git.

[J4CKO]

RumbleOfThunder said:

Don't forget the fact that Hartley fled the scene of the accident.

Scuttled off, like a Rabbit, no, more like a,

[Buster73]

Any sentencing update?