Do you ever 'self-police' the roads?

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ecsrobin said:

I had some knob in a red Volvo last week try do a similar thing, motorway goes to 4 lanes then back to 3, I’m in the 4th lane with 1/4 mile to go and spot a huge gap in front of him. As soon as I’m alongside he starts closing the gap so I accelerate and slot in to be met with lots of hand gestures and a frustrated Volvo driver.

If he hadn’t of tried to close the gap there would have been no problem.

It's a bit similar, but merging etiquette is a lot different than queue jumping. I've always merged with ettiquete, my op was more about people jumping queues, and it's easy to spot a queue jumper hammering along versus someone unfamiliar with the road trying to get it. Not to justify what I was doing, it is stupid, just putting it in context with a simple merge.

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silverfoxcc said:

On planet Clanger, it is so small, a bit larger than OP brain, that he cannot fathom out that even without a bright yellow box to tell the average UK idiot driver not to cross a railway track until his exit is clear

I do not move until there is space for me to get right across and past the other set of gates. The tts behind then all follow like sheep,even though they can see that the road is blocked beyond the crossing nd it times like this i wish i had a rear facing camera to see the look of horror on their faces as the brain cell wakes up
These people once passed a driving test FFS the question is HOW

One last question

What area of the country do you live in?

as a) how have you survived so long without a serious assault

b) i want to as far away from you as possible in case of the above being commited

As its pistonheads, we know that members here don't make mistakes on the road and neither do they do stupid things that in hindsight, aren't smart. I'm quite happy to adjust how I use the roads as time goes on, as well as hearing stories and other peoples interpretations, as over time, you learn more and more about the roads. I passed my test when I was 18, and have over 20 years driving experience. Never had a point on my license - never got a speeding ticket.

The crossing example was very easy to get caught - a perfect collection of separate events that only ever happened me once - key point being, when you make mistakes, you should learn from them. I learned from that one - quite an easy learning in hindsight to be fair.

That's the important bit, being willing to learn/improve all the time ( and I guess that's why I've a clean license, I'm willing to learn and take advice, even after 20 plus years on the roads) The traffic is at a standstill for several minutes, it then starts moving, you move off and almost instantly, it comes to a complete standstill - and several more minutes pass and then I'm still stranded due to gridlock.

Of course, some will interpret this chain of events that I 'should hand my license in' or that 'I'm a dangerous driver' plus many other words to that effect. Clearly, that's not how life on the roads work. We've already acknowledged here that people get it wrong on the roads all the time, but its all about taking the learnings and getting better, isn't it?

Surely that makes more sense, rather than handing your license in every time someone makes a poor decision that, with the benefit of hindsight, you can see the error and make amends for next time?

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FiF said:

If it's as bad as described then there should be a yellow box painted to stop people doing exactly that. Surprised if not.

Looking back, yes, they should really paint it.

I've got a pic.

You can see the right turn, which, ironically, has yellow boxes despite no boxes on the actual track. A right turn, straight after the crossing. Barrier goes up, off we all go, but someone has stopped in yellow box, gridlock, I get stranded.

Easy to see how it can happen, and easy to get stranded if you assume the traffic is just going to move. That was my error. But hand my license in for that is quite frankly, ridiculous in my view.

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I found a video of the exact thing I was talking about in the original post. You can see someone cutting in. This particular example I would give a 5/10 on the dangerous driving scale in comparison to what I've witnessed myself. He causes the guy in the video to brake to avoid a collision but in the grand scheme of things, its not too bad - I've seen a hell of a lot worse.

Eg, the white audi may have tried to get across by one lane and if both cars try to move into that lane, then we've got a problem. That's why they mark the road so far back to get in lane. Overhead gantry, markings on the road on multiple locations on the 2 mile stretch, eventually leading up to the point where the motorways split. Its blatantly obvious on this stretch that you've been given multiple signs to tell you what lane to get into.

https://youtu.be/4LtGJx8z_oY

So that's where I was trying to close the gap and send them down the other motorway, to try and teach them a lesson. I thinks its clear now that I've recognised that I should just stay out of it, which I plan to do - hopefully you can better understand what goes on though. Dangerous driving on a daily basis.

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so called said:

Felt like shouting at a dick yesterday evening who was texting.
He was drifting and leaving a big gap in the line of traffic as we approached a junction.#

I felt like I needed to make others aware of what he was doing.
Does that count?

When I was starting the thread, I was thinking more of the lines of 'when you step in and take some action that is for the greater good of everyone'

A made up example might be - you come over the brow of a hill and a broken down car is on the other side. You pass its safely as you simply overtake it because there is nothing coming the other way. But if there was something the otherway, you might have had an accident. An example of self- policing would maybe be going back to the brow of the hill and blocking it by straddling both lanes - any oncoming car in either direction can see you - but nobody can pass - but at least you know you can try and push the broken down car to a safe spot as we all know, pulling in over the brow of a hill is dangerous. That's a possible example of taking the law into your own hands to try and help others - even though you have absolutely no right to do so. And maybe in this example, you should just carry on regardless - after all, an accident is only a possibility, it might not actually even happen.

That was the point of the thread when I started!

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Toltec said:

Would have been better accelerating and taking a later gap, but clearly was not confident enough to do that and risk having to go the wrong way.

Im really baffled by this to be honest. He should have been in lane 2 miles ago, not accelerating to the point ahead where a gap may or may not be when he gets there.

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Nanook said:

There's a massive difference between those 2 things though.

The other day I left my indicator on for half a mile after I'd joined a dual carriagway. Didn't see the light flashing, and didn't hear the relay clicking as my stereo was up loud.

That's a bit different though, to thinking, "I'll just stop here in the middle of this train track" or "I'll try cause an accident by trying to out accelerate these people, that's a good idea"

Absolutely correct - there is a massive difference to those 2 things.

But please, tell me where I've decided to just stop in the middle of this train track? I've read my post, and nope, I didn't say that - I didn't even come close to saying that.

And 'I'll try and cause an accident trying by trying to out accelerate these people' - nope - didn't say that either. You've just decided to interpret it that way.

I think anyone sensible reading this will be able to comprehend the actual context of what I've written - good bad and indifferent. Obviously people will want to twist it a bit, spice it up, create a bit of banter etc etc....happens in most threads on here so nothing unusual there. Its quite obvious what I'm describing.

Anyway, little point in me carrying on - thread isn't delivering on the headline topic so best to just let it die off - thought it might provoke some examples where its good to step in and do something that's for the overall good. Not much evidence of that despite being 6 pages in so hardly much point in trying to create any such debates as its turned into a thread all about me instead.

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Nanook said:

How far back should you get in the correct lane.

Is 2 miles the official figure? What if I've not been on the stretch or road for 2 miles yet, before I need in a certain lane?

Since you're so keen to 'self-police' I'm assuming you have all the answers, yes?

I posted a video. The lines in the road are the 'official figure'

If you look, you can see the 2 distinct M2/M5 motorways are separated by the 'do not cross' lines for the whole length of the video. Anyone coming from that right hand side will have been on the motorway for the 2 miles already, there is no other entry point along that stretch. As mentioned, loads of time to get in lane - they just choose not to. The video isn't even rush hour, so not much traffic. Its 4 times as much traffic come late afternoon.

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Nanook said:

you're not helping yourself!

I don't really care much for my online 'street cred' or whatever you might be referring to. I just wanted to see if people 'do things' on the road that they are clearly taking the law into their own hands, but doing it for the right reasons.

I gave an example of a broken down car over the brow of a hill earlier, but of course, nobody wants to talk about that - much better to talk about me and how I should hand my license in. I get it, I know why that happens, people like having a pop/bit of banter etc. Just disappointed that that a sensible conversation is quite difficult to achieve on here sometimes.

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Nanook said:

Do you think those dotted white lines mean you're not allowed to cross them?

Lets not go there please. I know the difference between do not cross, no not overtake etc - lets not get into petty posts that aren't even relevant. Of course its legal to cross them - in the correct circumstances.

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Nanook said:

So the lines in the road aren't the 'official figure'?

Kinda seems like you're not really sure.

I don't know what you are asking me? What official figure are you talking about? The lines are normal motorway lines at the start of the motorway, and then once you've had adequate chance to find your lane, lines are changed (less gap between lines) for the rest of the road. This isn't unusual, most motorways will have these lines.

Belfast M2 -country bound. Go have a look using google maps if you're genuinely interested.

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MDMetal said:

Your sir are a 'tard! I've seen similar on my commute when lanes merge and traffic decides to merge in advance a mile or two ahead and to stop "cheaters" vehicles straddle the centre line to block these "cheaters". Basic rule of thumb, if you wouldn't do these actions to a police car don't do them to any car. As long as car's don't cross lines they're not supposed to then any maneuver is fine when conducted safely. I take great fun in undercutting these sorts of idiots when their wheels stray all the across the to the neighbouring lane making and undertake perfectly legal. On previous instances this results in everyone else looking very happy, apart from the mug now sat in the wrong lane (from his pov)

Another one who can't tell the difference between merge and 2 separate parts of the motorway. I haven't counted how many, but there are quite a number of people on this thread who think my posted example is 'merging'

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Nanook said:

Go back and read your OP, and your posts on the first page, then think about your comment about 'sensible conversation'.

Don't try and blame anyone else for the way this has gone.

Fair comment - didn't start off on the right foot, did I? To be honest, lots of threads start off with 'dick, knob, tosser, etc' so at that point, I thought I was just fielding those normal initial thread posts that you sometime see. After a couple of pages, I thought about the OP and then edited it to reflect that I had come to my senses - didn't edit those other posts though so I see your point, absolutely.

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MDMetal said:

Really doesn't matter what it is, you are attempting to cause an accident by dictating who can and can't do what, just because another road user has done something wrong does not mean you get to punish them or inflict some penalty.

You may not have read all of the thread. Quite a few pages ago, I agreed that it was wrong to do that - about 4 or 5 pages ago. I don't see the value in keeping repeating it. I'm hoping to move on from that.

I'm doing that commute again soon and won't be doing that anymore.

Plus, I've just heard on the news that there is a traffic light out a few miles away - I need to find my hero cape and get over to it pronto - they need me over there

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superlightr said:

Yes you didn't say you stopped in the middle of this train track but you did say you stopped and you are still on the tracks.

fancy doing some Rospa training? It can only help and improve your driving I promise.

Yes that's right. Interpretation of the written word maybe. I just moved forward like a few car lengths approx. and then the traffic all stopped again, which I wasn't expecting - so I had to stop. I didn't forsee that so got caught out. Difference being I didn't 'choose' to stop, like was previously suggested.

I'm familiar with Rospa, I know some Lorry Drivers - they do it annually and I'm sure its a great session. I'm sure I could learn a thing or 2 from that - every day is a school day as the saying goes.

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Toltec said:

OP, I know you have said you are going to stop doing the gap closing thing, which is good, so I'm going to suggest a slightly different logic to viewing it.

You have left a gap to the vehicle in front.

This gap is large enough so that you felt comfortable in closing it up significantly so another car cannot use it.

However you felt no need to close this gap to move yourself an extra couple of seconds along the road.

This being the case what difference does it make to you whether there is a car in that gap or not? You were not using that piece of road, why would you think it is reasonable to stop someone else from using it?



In your video the left hand lane is moving faster than the second lane anyway, why not use that, move ahead yourself and leave a gap for another car in the second lane, everyone's happy.

Yes - I'm seeing the point here. Hopefully, as I mentioned earlier, its clear that I've now recognised the errors in the OP.

[soupdragon1]

RobM77 said:

Quite a long winded thread to what should have been simple question with a simple answer: people who self police the roads are utter . There's never a good reason, so just stop it immediately.

The reasons for not being a vigilante style prick are many:

Firstly, these self policing idiots are often subject to their own ignorance of the Highway Code and end up policing the wrong thing (we've all seen this with the overtaking Nazis, or people who don't realise bus lanes have limited operating hours, or who miss an NSL sign after a 30mph limit);

Secondly, their judgement is often marred with prejudice. For example, what about the odd person who genuinely doesn't realise they're in the wrong lane until it's almost too late, perhaps cause they don't know the road and missed a sign? If that person is indeed on an unfamiliar road, then they probably also don't realise their mistake can be rectified a few miles up ahead, and may therefore take dangerous action to cut in further ahead, worried they'll miss their job interview, pickup etc. You don't know the circumstances, so stop playing Judge Judy.

Thirdly, you never know who you're messing with and things can turn nasty.

Fourthly, you never know the story - what if the person desperate to get ahead is trying to get home before their Dad dies, or is missing the birth of their first child etc? It's not uncommon - we once had a thread on here about speeding and a fair few people had got a call out of the blue that someone was about to die etc and they were two hour's drive away. I personally would happily add half a second to my journey time for such a person.

Fifthly, just stop trying to interfere with other people and mind your own business you arrogant .

I'm ignoring people who swear at me now, no need for it.

[soupdragon1]

RobM77 said:

Self policing the roads really is completely out of order.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 23 May 15:43

Ok.

For the bit I quoted, does that also apply to the car parked over the brow of a hill example? As that's why I created the thread. Maybe there are instances when you 'should' take some action? I genuinely think there are.

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RobM77 said:

This is a very useful piece of logic. What I do is imagine there are no cars around - your journey's speed profile for someone cutting in would be, for example, a steady 70mph for 30 minutes, then a quick drop to 65mph for one second and then back up to 70mph again. Calculate the total time for such a journey (t=d/v) and it's imperceptibly similar to a journey where one's speed didn't falter momentarily.

I totally get this (and the previous post)- its a very good guide as to what progress you 'think' you aren't making when in actually fact - it doesn't even make a difference.

On the same stretch of road, there are 3 lanes later on when people are chopping and changing lanes. They maybe get 10 or 15 cars ahead of you by doing this....or 100 yards or so. But when doing 60 mph ish, you cover that 100 yards in seconds. So they've literally worked their socks off to try and get ahead and only saved a few seconds in real time. I take that sort of view when I see it happening.

I appreciate my OP sounds a bit nuts, no denying that. My standpoint was from a 'I'll teach them a lesson' type of view, rather than trying to save myself some time. As you've described, it literally means nothing to the overall journey so there is real no value to trying to stop people getting in front of you.

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Nanook said:

Go and put out your warning triangle at the brow of the hill. Get your passenger to stand there and indicate to passing motorists to slow down, or that there is something going on they need to be aware of. Park your car somewhere visible to all, and leave your hazards on.

but jesus fking christ don't abandon it right in the middle of the fking road, blocking it both ways.

That's a better idea. Never thought of using a warning triangle. Obviously, you're trusting the next person coming along to stop at the triangle and not just come out past it. I guess if they did, you've done all you reasonably could.

Reminds me of a time when close to our house, it was like pure ice on the road, a bad patch of black ice and a couple of cars already had been caught out. Someone was there, doing a good turn, waving at people to slow down. Person in front of me slowed by slamming the brakes and then power slided off the road. The guy done his best, fair play to him, thankfully I was able to stop on that occasion - saved me a big repair bill no doubt.