IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?
Discussion
As well as racing bikes, I have raced karts, 250 national,which is a superkart. They did race them at Peel on the Isle of Man but sadly I wasn't doing it when they competed. I have raced all manner of circuits on them, from Silverstone to Three Sisters in Wigan and they are terrible on anything but a smooth surface, due to a solid rear axle and no suspension. On a smooth circuit they are immensely fast, but around the Isle of Man, not a chance.
robinh73 said:
As well as racing bikes, I have raced karts, 250 national,which is a superkart. They did race them at Peel on the Isle of Man but sadly I wasn't doing it when they competed. I have raced all manner of circuits on them, from Silverstone to Three Sisters in Wigan and they are terrible on anything but a smooth surface, due to a solid rear axle and no suspension. On a smooth circuit they are immensely fast, but around the Isle of Man, not a chance.
Again, missing my point.robinh73 said:
As well as racing bikes, I have raced karts, 250 national,which is a superkart. They did race them at Peel on the Isle of Man but sadly I wasn't doing it when they competed. I have raced all manner of circuits on them, from Silverstone to Three Sisters in Wigan and they are terrible on anything but a smooth surface, due to a solid rear axle and no suspension. On a smooth circuit they are immensely fast, but around the Isle of Man, not a chance.
I don’t think anyone was saying a kart would be weapon of choice to break the record, they where saying that 4 wheels have speed advantages over 2. More grip and down force.
RumbleOfThunder said:
robinh73 said:
As well as racing bikes, I have raced karts, 250 national,which is a superkart. They did race them at Peel on the Isle of Man but sadly I wasn't doing it when they competed. I have raced all manner of circuits on them, from Silverstone to Three Sisters in Wigan and they are terrible on anything but a smooth surface, due to a solid rear axle and no suspension. On a smooth circuit they are immensely fast, but around the Isle of Man, not a chance.
Again, missing my point.Nanook said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Also its been explained times many in these pages that cars manage bumps better than bikes, so I wouldn't use that talisman chaps.
A kart is not a car though.warch said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Also its been explained times many in these pages that cars manage bumps better than bikes, so I wouldn't use that talisman chaps.
Who explained that cars manage bumps better than bikes? ZX10R NIN said:
An F2/3/4 won't get close to the record they're not fast enough, no one on here thinks that the Subaru is the pinnacle of motorsport but they're the benchmark & it was a serious no holds barred effort with a very serious car & driver yet it still came up short.
It was serious attempt with a car which wouldn't get anywhere near a decent slicks and wings single seaters - these pesky little things which despite 'not being fast enough' somehow mage to lap faster than bikes everywhere else . coppice said:
ZX10R NIN said:
An F2/3/4 won't get close to the record they're not fast enough, no one on here thinks that the Subaru is the pinnacle of motorsport but they're the benchmark & it was a serious no holds barred effort with a very serious car & driver yet it still came up short.
It was serious attempt with a car which wouldn't get anywhere near a decent slicks and wings single seaters - these pesky little things which despite 'not being fast enough' somehow mage to lap faster than bikes everywhere else . It is amazing how much speed alters the behaviour of a bike. I know that this may sound obvious, but it is a serious effort to wrestle a bike around there at race pace. You have so much going on, the road surface becomes something totally different. What would appear to be a normal road at normal speeds, suddenly becomes a very different kettle of fish at 180+mph. Even a banding strip between tarmac surfaces can cause the most incredible tank slapper if not hit correctly. Lumps in the road become jumps, something that you would not really pick up on at day to day speeds.
Just for reference the Subaru TT car with Higgins driving was about 7 seconds slower up the Goodwood FOS hillclimb than a 20 year old F1 car. This is a low speed bumpy course with the F1 car essentially half assing it.
Also being a bit harsh to TA cars comparing the Subaru one to them as a TA car was about 3 secs quicker up there and that was a few years old with faster ones around now.
This is a 1 mile course
Also being a bit harsh to TA cars comparing the Subaru one to them as a TA car was about 3 secs quicker up there and that was a few years old with faster ones around now.
This is a 1 mile course
RB Will said:
Just for reference the Subaru TT car with Higgins driving was about 7 seconds slower up the Goodwood FOS hillclimb than a 20 year old F1 car. This is a low speed bumpy course with the F1 car essentially half assing it.
Also being a bit harsh to TA cars comparing the Subaru one to them as a TA car was about 3 secs quicker up there and that was a few years old with faster ones around now.
This is a 1 mile course
Also being a bit harsh to TA cars comparing the Subaru one to them as a TA car was about 3 secs quicker up there and that was a few years old with faster ones around now.
This is a 1 mile course
As I mentioned earlier, some old F1 cars run on the TT course in hillclimbs, and for one of these threads a few years ago I timed one point to point from You Tube and compared to the outright bike lap record at the time, also timed from You Tube. The F1 car was being driven very gingerly and only had a standard DFV in the back (~400-500bhp), but yes, it was quicker.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 28th September 10:31
robinh73 said:
As well as racing bikes, I have raced karts, 250 national,which is a superkart. They did race them at Peel on the Isle of Man but sadly I wasn't doing it when they competed. I have raced all manner of circuits on them, from Silverstone to Three Sisters in Wigan and they are terrible on anything but a smooth surface, due to a solid rear axle and no suspension. On a smooth circuit they are immensely fast, but around the Isle of Man, not a chance.
The peel races were epic, the carts seemed to spend 50% of the time in the air 
RobM77 said:
As I mentioned earlier, some old F1 cars run on the TT course in hillclimbs, and for one of these threads a few years ago I timed one point to point from You Tube and compared to the outright bike lap record at the time, also timed from You Tube. The F1 car was being driven very gingerly and only had a standard DFV in the back (~400-500bhp), but yes, it was quicker.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 28th September 10:31
warch said:
RobM77 said:
As I mentioned earlier, some old F1 cars run on the TT course in hillclimbs, and for one of these threads a few years ago I timed one point to point from You Tube and compared to the outright bike lap record at the time, also timed from You Tube. The F1 car was being driven very gingerly and only had a standard DFV in the back (~400-500bhp), but yes, it was quicker.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 28th September 10:31
It's a short section, yes. It's fairly typical though.ETA: It can't be underestimated how different a wealthy enthusiast in an old racing car running a conservative setup is compared with a pro driver and a full race setup with new slicks etc. The two are genuinely not in the same ballpark in a car of decent performance, especially on a tight bumpy circuit. It also can't be under-estimated how much faster a modern racing car is compared to an old F1 car running a reliability-spec replacement engine.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 1st October 11:36
Just to poke this thread with a stick again.
we have the bikers on here saying the car is rubbish as it can’t even keep up with a super stock bike and that they are basically standard and hardly any faster than the standard road version.
Previously when I dug up the mods allowed for super stock I proposed that they would make the bike much faster than standard and found a vid of a racer on the TT on a stock bike going way slower as expected.
This was roundly dismissed by everyone as the biker half assing it and the experts here still asserting there is hardly a difference between standard bike and super stock.
I just had a vid pop up in YouTube of the British Superstock champion trying to do his fastest lap of Cadwell on a standard bike.
He was 10s a lap slower on the road version!
Scale that up to IOM distance and you are talking 2.5mins slower! Now granted the gap won’t be quite as huge at IOM due to it’s less bendy nature but I still think it’s way more significant than anybody thinks / wants to admit.
we have the bikers on here saying the car is rubbish as it can’t even keep up with a super stock bike and that they are basically standard and hardly any faster than the standard road version.
Previously when I dug up the mods allowed for super stock I proposed that they would make the bike much faster than standard and found a vid of a racer on the TT on a stock bike going way slower as expected.
This was roundly dismissed by everyone as the biker half assing it and the experts here still asserting there is hardly a difference between standard bike and super stock.
I just had a vid pop up in YouTube of the British Superstock champion trying to do his fastest lap of Cadwell on a standard bike.
He was 10s a lap slower on the road version!
Scale that up to IOM distance and you are talking 2.5mins slower! Now granted the gap won’t be quite as huge at IOM due to it’s less bendy nature but I still think it’s way more significant than anybody thinks / wants to admit.
No one has dismissed the mods & if you remember I quoted you the production lap record times (when you were only allowed to run an end can & power commander) & they weren't far apart.
Using the same tyres as the Superstock the a showroom spec S1000RR is around 4-6 seconds off around Brands GP also Rutter wasn't trying he never does (he's still getting a move on but not even close to race pace) he wouldn't risk not racing.
The Superstock rules aren't extensive, basically it's head cams limited suspension (you can't change the brakes) work exhaust wiring loom & ecu work, all in all once you've bought & fitted that lot you have a bike that has cost between (depending on the Spec of your suspension & engine) 25-35k with 15-20bhp more but with much better suspension which is where 80% of you lap time will come from.
When you read the rules they may sound extensive the reality is they aren't, extensive changes come when you build a Superbike.
I'll say it again come over to the Manx Southern & TT to see for yourselves.
Using the same tyres as the Superstock the a showroom spec S1000RR is around 4-6 seconds off around Brands GP also Rutter wasn't trying he never does (he's still getting a move on but not even close to race pace) he wouldn't risk not racing.
The Superstock rules aren't extensive, basically it's head cams limited suspension (you can't change the brakes) work exhaust wiring loom & ecu work, all in all once you've bought & fitted that lot you have a bike that has cost between (depending on the Spec of your suspension & engine) 25-35k with 15-20bhp more but with much better suspension which is where 80% of you lap time will come from.
When you read the rules they may sound extensive the reality is they aren't, extensive changes come when you build a Superbike.
I'll say it again come over to the Manx Southern & TT to see for yourselves.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 1st October 14:48
RB Will said:
I just had a vid pop up in YouTube of the British Superstock champion trying to do his fastest lap of Cadwell on a standard bike.
He was 10s a lap slower on the road version!
Scale that up to IOM distance and you are talking 2.5mins slower! Now granted the gap won’t be quite as huge at IOM due to it’s less bendy nature but I still think it’s way more significant than anybody thinks / wants to admit.
Meanwhile back in the real world.He was 10s a lap slower on the road version!
Scale that up to IOM distance and you are talking 2.5mins slower! Now granted the gap won’t be quite as huge at IOM due to it’s less bendy nature but I still think it’s way more significant than anybody thinks / wants to admit.
Current Lap Records, all set in 2018, under race condions:-
Outright Lap Record===Peter Hickman === BMW S1000 RR === 16:42.778 === 135.452mph
Superbike ===Dean Harrison === KawasakiZX10R === 16:50.384 === 134.432mph
Superstock === Peter Hickman === BMW S1000 RR === 16:50.501 === 134.403mph
On the outright record lap, (lap 6 of 6), Hickman said he could have gone faster but got held up by some slower bikes on the mountain
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