IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?

[otolith]

blade7 said:

I'd dare say Porsche have the means to have the course shut for 3 or 4 hours.

And all it would really achieve in marketing terms is to urinate on the chips of bikers who might also be potential Porsche customers.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

So the difference between the Suburu is 53 seconds on 17 odd minutes.

Given said Suburu with its maximum power (700bhp wasn’t achieved in IOM as has been discussed so many times Mark H stated it was planes to have max power on the last run so it was a 600odd bhp Suburu) 700bhp and it lapped the Green Hell in 7 minutes..... the 919 did it in 5mins 17seconds...so 1 minute c40seconds quicker on a lap time of 7 mins.

The 919 is a Le Mans racer so think 24hrs at sprint pace without issue.

It’s dimensions are smaller than the Suburu

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

I love it when you use the science of doubling every number. Let’s call it 8.5 minutes at 270mph.

[Welshbeef]

otolith said:

blade7 said:

I'd dare say Porsche have the means to have the course shut for 3 or 4 hours.

And all it would really achieve in marketing terms is to urinate on the chips of bikers who might also be potential Porsche customers.

Schumacher pissed on Fangios chips
Hamilton will piss on Schumacher
Rossi pissed on the Irish biker who also did TT

That’s life but it’s progression it’s fun

[Red 4]

Welshbeef said:

The 919 is a Le Mans racer so think 24hrs at sprint pace without issue.

It’s dimensions are smaller than the Suburu

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

A 10 minute lap time equates to an average speed of 220 MPH.

I'll say that again. Average.

On a road circuit.

A very narrow road circuit with many corners, bumps, undulations, etc etc which leaves pretty much zero room for error.

Which kamikaze pilot will be driving said Porsche ?

[GravelBen]

G13NVL said:

GravelBen said:

G13NVL said:

The excitement of watching it over there in person is the fact that you can literally sit at the side of track, and I don’t mean on a grandstand 100 yards away I mean at the side of the curb less than a foot away!
And the fact when racing is over the road opens, you can jump on/in your own bike or car and away you go round the exact same circuit...

So its like rallying, but with bikes. And without getting sprayed with gravel.

It’s probably similar to the group b days but are they not strict now and make you keep a sensible distance? Iv never been to a rally unfortunately.

Depends on the event and where you are - some do keep spectators to restricted areas further from the road, but where I am its pretty free as long as you're in a reasonably safe place (not on the outside of a corner sort of thing, mostly common sense really).

Same variation with bike races I guess, the couple of bike road races I've been to had barriers and fences to keep spectators a fair distance clear but obviously some let you get closer.

[otolith]

Welshbeef said:

otolith said:

blade7 said:

I'd dare say Porsche have the means to have the course shut for 3 or 4 hours.

And all it would really achieve in marketing terms is to urinate on the chips of bikers who might also be potential Porsche customers.

Schumacher pissed on Fangios chips
Hamilton will piss on Schumacher
Rossi pissed on the Irish biker who also did TT

That’s life but it’s progression it’s fun

Yes, the question is why Porsche would think it would sell more cars.

[Welshbeef]

Red 4 said:

Welshbeef said:

The 919 is a Le Mans racer so think 24hrs at sprint pace without issue.

It’s dimensions are smaller than the Suburu

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

A 10 minute lap time equates to an average speed of 220 MPH.

I'll say that again. Average.

On a road circuit.

A very narrow road circuit with many corners, bumps, undulations, etc etc which leaves pretty much zero room for error.

Which kamikaze pilot will be driving said Porsche ?

It’s fun isn’t it - 919 or any super or hyper car willl never do it.

Maybe Tesla might try but that’s a point and squirt thing and 38 odd miles at maximum attack may leave the car stranded.

[GravelBen]

likesachange said:

Was that Subaru that powerful?? Didn't seem that quick after the 120 mark.

No, but some bikers like to exaggerate the cars power. Next year they'll be saying 750bhp, and the year after it will be 800.

Press release before the event said 550bhp, IIRC the team mentioned winding the boost up and having more like 600 for the final run.

From memory it topped out at 168mph due to drag, so the bikes were creaming it for straight line speed and the car was taking time back braking and cornering (but obviously not enough to match the overall time).

A car can still get 4 people around the TT course a heap faster than a bike though!

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 16th May 23:49

[thegreenhell]

Welshbeef said:

Maybe Tesla might try but that’s a point and squirt thing and 38 odd miles at maximum attack may leave the car stranded.

No current Tesla can even manage a full lap of the Nurburgring at maximum attack, let alone a faster course that's three times as long.

[Welshbeef]

GravelBen said:

No, but some bikers like to exaggerate the cars power. Next year they'll be saying 750bhp, and the year after it will be 800.

Press release before the event said 550bhp, IIRC the team mentioned winding the boost up and having more like 600 for the final run.

From memory it topped out at 168mph due to drag, so the bikes were creaming it for straight line speed and the car was taking time back braking and cornering (but obviously not enough to match the overall time).

A car can still get 4 people around the TT course a heap faster than a bike though!

And it never did that final run so a 550bhp did 128/129mph average speed

[J4CKO]

The 919 Evo is getting on for 25 percent faster than the Subaru at the Ring, it needs to to do the TT course 6 ish percent faster than the same car to match the bike record.

[Welshbeef]

otolith said:

Yes, the question is why Porsche would think it would sell more cars.

But Porsche has more race wins in more race categories over a longer period of time than any other brand by a massive margin.

It’s a racing brand they are proud of that and deservedly so - why do you think they made the 919 Evo to showboat what the car could do with the restrictions that LMP1 removed. It’s a wonderful car a feat of engineering.
However if Porsche engineers were given free reign to build a “car” with the sole reason for being to be able to drive 6 laps of the IOMTT and achieve the fastest physically possible average speed/laptime

[anonymous-user]

RobM77 said:

It's not rubbish. A few years ago on a similar thread I posted videos of an old F1 car and of the current lap record. I timed both and posted them up. You can search the PH archives and find the post.

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. Forget F1, that applies right the way down through club motorsport whenever you get really fast cars, especially if it rains (F3000, F3, Radicals etc). I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I know I'd absolutely st myself in an F3000 car, let alone an F1 car. It's only really at the lower echelons of motorsport (Formula Ford, Minis, Caterhams etc) where everyone's on the ragged edge.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 15:33

bks.

As someone who race prepares and runs historic F1 cars competing today, having won the FIA historic F1 championship, you are talking out your arse.

[Welshbeef]

Porsche held and holds the fastest Green Hell racing and qualifying time period

Porsche 919Evo is what 1min 30-45seconds quicker than any other vehicle.

The battle of the hybrid Supercars - La Ferrari didn’t set a time, McLaren tried and without any evidence simply stated they did it under 7mins and deffo beat the Porsche..... but refused to state the time nor show a video verifying it. Porsche put the video out first no questions

Porsche 911 GT2 RS magical ring time

The Moby Dick
The 917 / didn’t that model race unchanged for 7-8 years and beat ALL opposition.

Highest ever number of Le Mans victories

Highest number of racing laps

Highest number of racing wins ever

Porsche brand is built on Motorsport and it’s success
Porsche road cars are rejoiced

And I’m not a fanboy of Pork (would certainly own one)

[otolith]

Welshbeef said:

otolith said:

Yes, the question is why Porsche would think it would sell more cars.

But Porsche has more race wins in more race categories over a longer period of time than any other brand by a massive margin.

It’s a racing brand they are proud of that and deservedly so - why do you think they made the 919 Evo to showboat what the car could do with the restrictions that LMP1 removed. It’s a wonderful car a feat of engineering.
However if Porsche engineers were given free reign to build a “car” with the sole reason for being to be able to drive 6 laps of the IOMTT and achieve the fastest physically possible average speed/laptime

Yeah, so they add one more lap record, and damage the egos of a lot of potential customers who like to think nothing is faster than a bike. It would piss a load of bike people off and prove nothing relevant to anyone else other than it’s quicker than a souped up Jap saloon and an old Rover. Oh, and some bikes.

Not saying I wouldn’t like to see how fast a properly quick car can do it, just that I don’t see what’s in it for Porsche.

[poo at Paul's]

ive no doubt that a bike could go faster than the current record of 135mph, but within the bike spec rules, it will creep up .5mph or so a year.

The bikes to Ramsey are doing about 145mph average, (which anyone who knows the course is quite astonishing, as there is some real tight twisty st, and it is bumpy as fk. Its the section that the riders set the bikes up for, basically it is 23 miles or so from the start line from 37 odd miles.
So why is the TT lap record "only" 135? Well, from Ramsey, the bikes have to climb 2200ft odd, over the mountain section, and back down into Douglas, there's two hairpins in that, and housing estates etc! But it is the climb that i think could be improved on, with pure power.
On Pete Hickman's senior race last year, when he set the lap record, he had the "trick" BMW motor fitted, basically a full works special motor, only for that race was it available to him. And by Ramsey he was about 7 seconds or so behind Dean Harrison on the Kawasaki! But he clawed all that back with the epic last 13 miles of so and I suspect a lot of that was due to the extra power he had from the trick motor.

Remembering the altitude effect, and no forced induction on the bikes, and the speeds they are averaging on the "flat" sections, if they could / were to build a bike with the ability to find another 40 or 50 hp when it needed it for the climb over the mountain, I think the lap speed could jump quite markedly. Their current average over the last 13 miles or so from Ramsey, is actually only about 115mph or so.

[Welshbeef]

otolith said:

Yeah, so they add one more lap record, and damage the egos of a lot of potential customers who like to think nothing is faster than a bike. It would piss a load of bike people off and prove nothing relevant to anyone else other than it’s quicker than a souped up Jap saloon and an old Rover. Oh, and some bikes.

Not saying I wouldn’t like to see how fast a properly quick car can do it, just that I don’t see what’s in it for Porsche.

Porsche don’t sell motorbikes do they....

[otolith]

Welshbeef said:

otolith said:

Yeah, so they add one more lap record, and damage the egos of a lot of potential customers who like to think nothing is faster than a bike. It would piss a load of bike people off and prove nothing relevant to anyone else other than it’s quicker than a souped up Jap saloon and an old Rover. Oh, and some bikes.

Not saying I wouldn’t like to see how fast a properly quick car can do it, just that I don’t see what’s in it for Porsche.

Porsche don’t sell motorbikes do they....

No. But bikers buy Porsches.

[Welshbeef]

otolith said:

No. But bikers buy Porsches.

I thought bikers were all burley hairy chested types who had thick skin - you portray them as millennial snowflakes.

I really wouldn’t worry and suspect Porsche not want weak snowflakes as their target market

Mods and rockers - fighting , don’t think we’ve ever seen the same in the car fraternity. Actually if you pissed on a Mods chips (not an Internet forum bod who cleans up threads haha)

[RobM77]

jsf said:

RobM77 said:

It's not rubbish. A few years ago on a similar thread I posted videos of an old F1 car and of the current lap record. I timed both and posted them up. You can search the PH archives and find the post.

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. Forget F1, that applies right the way down through club motorsport whenever you get really fast cars, especially if it rains (F3000, F3, Radicals etc). I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I know I'd absolutely st myself in an F3000 car, let alone an F1 car. It's only really at the lower echelons of motorsport (Formula Ford, Minis, Caterhams etc) where everyone's on the ragged edge.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 15:33

bks.

As someone who race prepares and runs historic F1 cars competing today, having won the FIA historic F1 championship, you are talking out your arse.

My info on F3 etc comes from racing against them for years. My info on old F1 cars comes from several people I know well who do exactly what you do - look after F1 cars for wealthy enthusiasts - you probably know them . No doubt if you've won FIA F1 historics then you've worked with some quick drivers - take a look further down the grid and to BOSS and the subject of this discussion: hillclimbs. That is what we're talking about. Those guys are not driving their cars on the ragged edge like a typical Caterham racer would be.

Ask yourself this: what’s the difference in lap time between a seasoned pro and an average (not the race winners who you work with) wealthy enthusiast in an F1 car? 1-2 seconds difference is usually technique limited with lines etc, even though both drivers are on the limit. Any more of a gap than that than that proves my point. There's no way most normal club racers, and I include me in this, are fit or skilled enough to drive an F1 car at proper race pace; we'd be several seconds off a pro.

To get back on topic, we were talking about one specific video. I suggest you watch it before commenting, particularly in such a rude manner.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 17th May 15:04