IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?
Discussion
jsf said:
A car built for the job would annihilate the bikes, it's basic physics of what performance you can package and how much tyre grip you can generate.
The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
The IOM circuit is narrow (and there are lots of things to hit which will definitely ruin your day).The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
It's not all about power and grip. Bikes can take different lines and make the most of the available road.
If you look at some on-boards of the TT some of the speeds given the surroundings are bonkers.
jsf said:
A car built for the job would annihilate the bikes, it's basic physics of what performance you can package and how much tyre grip you can generate.
The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
The bikes are far from bespoke too. They're all road based machines. The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
Red 4 said:
jsf said:
A car built for the job would annihilate the bikes, it's basic physics of what performance you can package and how much tyre grip you can generate.
The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
The IOM circuit is narrow (and there are lots of things to hit which will definitely ruin your day).The Subaru is a very limited package built for a PR exercise, in the big scheme of building a car for the job its slow.
It's not all about power and grip. Bikes can take different lines and make the most of the available road.
If you look at some on-boards of the TT some of the speeds given the surroundings are bonkers.
And how much faster do you think the Superbikes would be going if they were afforded the same concessions as the car is given?
That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
Red 4 said:
You're not listening.
Bike - small.
Car - not small.
IOM circuit - narrow.
I take it you've never been to Fraggle Rock ?
I really don’t understand where you are going with this? It’s a car not a combine harvester we are on about going round. The road is at least 2-3 cars wide around the lap. As demonstrated by the Subaru lap and the significantly higher speeds in most of the corners the road is plenty wide enough for a car to exploit its natural cornering advantage. Bike - small.
Car - not small.
IOM circuit - narrow.
I take it you've never been to Fraggle Rock ?
I can’t remember 100% but I don’t think there was anywhere on the lap that the bikes narrowness/ straightlining ability was an advantage, no corners where the bike was flat that the car had to back off.
RB Will said:
I really don’t understand where you are going with this? It’s a car not a combine harvester we are on about going round. The road is at least 2-3 cars wide around the lap. As demonstrated by the Subaru lap and the significantly higher speeds in most of the corners the road is plenty wide enough for a car to exploit its natural cornering advantage.
I can’t remember 100% but I don’t think there was anywhere on the lap that the bikes narrowness/ straightlining ability was an advantage, no corners where the bike was flat that the car had to back off.
A lot of riders call it threading the needle.I can’t remember 100% but I don’t think there was anywhere on the lap that the bikes narrowness/ straightlining ability was an advantage, no corners where the bike was flat that the car had to back off.
Pin point accuracy using all of the road.
The bike can use more of the road because it's smaller.
The car takes up more space on the road meaning it has to take a different line.
Not
Exactly
Rocket
Science.
CypSIdders said:
And how much faster do you think the Superbikes would be going if they were afforded the same concessions as the car is given?
That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
A purpose built car hasnt been round yet either. A compromised modified Subaru has, its restriction was its starting base had to be a Subaru as per the sponsors. Making a track car from a Subaru is like making a TT bike out of a Goldwing.That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
The TT Subaru isn’t even as quick as some standard Supercars on track let alone purpose built race cars.
As for pit stops, cars at lemans usually go about 45 mins between fuel stops and 1.5 hours in tyres so would only need the 1 stop for a bit of fuel in a 6 lap TT. Of course advantage of car is that you can put a bigger tank in but it’s weighing up if carrying an extra 50kg of fuel for half the race will be slower than making a stop.
Overtaking is a bit irrelevant it’s not hard on a narrow bike and drafting someone as you go to overtake could be an advantage.
Don’t think the standing/ flying start makes much odds. Surely if it did all the bike records would be set on the last lap, what’s the point even bringing up the flying lap argument if you say the bikes get one per race anyway?
Not really awkward questions are they
Red 4 said:
A lot of riders call it threading the needle.
Pin point accuracy using all of the road.
The bike can use more of the road because it's smaller.
The car takes up more space on the road meaning it has to take a different line.
Not
Exactly
Rocket
Science.
The Hypothetical theory is lovely but there just aren’t sections on the TT course where it’s applicable.Pin point accuracy using all of the road.
The bike can use more of the road because it's smaller.
The car takes up more space on the road meaning it has to take a different line.
Not
Exactly
Rocket
Science.
Just because the car may have to take a different or slightly more exaggerated line doesn’t mean it’s having to slow down or lose ground over the bikes.
As demonstrated by a lumpy Subaru even with the restricted width and tighter cornering lines the car is significantly faster through the corners.
RB Will said:
A purpose built car hasnt been round yet either. A compromised modified Subaru has, its restriction was its starting base had to be a Subaru as per the sponsors. Making a track car from a Subaru is like making a TT bike out of a Goldwing.
Tell you what though, a Subaru will take 5 people and their luggage around the TT course a hell of a lot of faster than a bike can! 
Mr2Mike said:
GravelBen said:
He posted one on p2 of this thread for starters.
I meant an actual competitive lap. What time did the car get around?GravelBen said:
Mr2Mike said:
GravelBen said:
He posted one on p2 of this thread for starters.
I meant an actual competitive lap. What time did the car get around?
CypSIdders said:
And how much faster do you think the Superbikes would be going if they were afforded the same concessions as the car is given?
That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
Sorry I didn’t realise the rules for a IOM TTwere only applicable from standing starts - if they do actually record the fastest lap on their last lap is that not recorded as the fastest lap/purely for note? That would be, new slicks, non standard fuel, no pesky class rules or regulations to fall foul of at scrutineering, a lovely flying start from Governors and absolutely nothing else on the course.
You do realise that the bike records are nearly all set from a standing start, all of them under race conditions.
In any race around the TT course the only opportunity to get in a flying lap is on the final lap.
I'd be very interested to know how many fuel and tyre stops the car would have to make over a six lapper.
I'd also be very interested to know how much slower it would be having to deal 60+ other vehicles on the course, at the same time, in the said six lapper.
Has a bike ever been given a no rules, money no object, flying start on empty closed roads, to try and set an out right course record?
Or, are these just really awkward questions you'd rather not answer, having ignored them for the last two years, when they were asked?
Fastest laps in any other racing are achieved during the race but the outright record can be achieved during qualifying. But fastest laps which would be logged in the g Book of record would simply be that the fastest time set period
Car can have bigger fuel tank so the 6 lap point is easily done.
Tyres durability is say you have to look at what they can do in Le Mans endurance racing.
The car isn’t racing in any TT race or class it’s simply some fun - I’m not sure of he regulations for making different bikes to superbikes or super sport but they are defined classes for racing. However Zero TT a new category has been created recently so a better category than the top spec bikes currently allowed is certainly possible but no doubt would be expensive - interesting none the less
RB Will said:
Much as I would love to say it was I did compare it to the Subaru lap yesterday and over the section in the video it’s a bit slower but to be fair it’s just a guy out having a laugh in a 25 year old car in rain so hard there is standing water.
Fair enough, I was far too lazy to actually compare them myself. Maybe there was another dry single-seater hillclimb run I'm thinking of.I think RobM77 (where is he these days anyway? used to be a regular here) did some quite in-depth analysis of car vs bike laptimes on various circuits to try and predict a time - it was as most sensible people with a grasp of physics expect, everywhere that cars and bikes both compete the cars are faster.
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