IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?
Discussion
coppice said:
Thing is that , in terms of fact rather than partisan opinion , cars go round race tracks. rally stages , hillclimbs and even drag strips a fair bit quicker than the faster cars . And round race tracks, we know that even a relatively tame F4 or F3 car goes faster than any bike .
But that's irrelevant when the woowoo laws of physics on the island mean that aerodynamics don't work and bumps make racing cars explode.Mr Tidy said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
Until the power rangers accept that four wheels is always faster than two.
not really....... https://youtu.be/QYjLJp4ef1Y
STe_rsv4 said:
Mr Tidy said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
Until the power rangers accept that four wheels is always faster than two.
not really....... https://youtu.be/QYjLJp4ef1Y
thegreenhell said:
But that's irrelevant when the woowoo laws of physics on the island mean that aerodynamics don't work and bumps make racing cars explode.
All this wit is very well, but it could be argued that a WRC car would suit this type of surface better than most, and Mark Higgins who does know the circuit quite well, and is quite quick, laps quite a bit slower than a £20000 Super stock, in essentially 'off the shelf' form, in a Works prepared car costing many 100s of thousandsI'm not partisan one way or the other, as a biker and a driver, but it's not as clear cut as some present it to be..
meridian said:
All this wit is very well, but it could be argued that a WRC car would suit this type of surface better than most, and Mark Higgins who does know the circuit quite well, and is quite quick, laps quite a bit slower than a £20000 Super stock, in essentially 'off the shelf' form, in a Works prepared car costing many 100s of thousands
I'm not partisan one way or the other, as a biker and a driver, but it's not as clear cut as some present it to be..
Don't let the facts get in the way of physics and popular PH opinion.I'm not partisan one way or the other, as a biker and a driver, but it's not as clear cut as some present it to be..
If my auntie had balls, she's be my uncle and all that. Unless she was driving a "919", then anything is possible.
meridian said:
All this wit is very well, but it could be argued that a WRC car would suit this type of surface better than most, and Mark Higgins who does know the circuit quite well, and is quite quick, laps quite a bit slower than a £20000 Super stock, in essentially 'off the shelf' form, in a Works prepared car costing many 100s of thousands
I'm not partisan one way or the other, as a biker and a driver, but it's not as clear cut as some present it to be..
Well done you've successfully summed up the prevailing argument from most bikers and bike racing fans (who, lets be honest are also mostly drivers). I'm a biker and a driver, I like most MotoGP and superbike racing and also rallying. I'm not partisan one way or the other, as a biker and a driver, but it's not as clear cut as some present it to be..
No one on here who isn't a troll is suggesting that cars can't go around the TT course faster than bikes, it's just the opinion of some of us that it would need a pretty special (if not bespoke) car to do so.
DoubleD said:
What facts? A 919 hasnt been around the circuit?
These facts:meridian said:
but it could be argued that a WRC car would suit this type of surface better than most, and Mark Higgins who does know the circuit quite well, and is quite quick, laps quite a bit slower than a £20000 Super stock, in essentially 'off the shelf' form, in a Works prepared car costing many 100s of thousands
Mark Higgins effort was heroic but even in that car which was built for the job, he didn't come close to the lap record. I saw it up close and it was a serious piece of kit, stripped down to almost nothing with plastic panels, massive brakes, the lot. It bore little resemblance to the car it was based on. A 919 might do a 300 mph lap or it might not make it round at all and explode into a million pieces. We'll probably never know.
This is worth watching: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1111377_the-en...
RobM77 said:
otolith said:
I'm just thinking about how Tai Chi practitioners must have felt about this;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-398533...
I think that's what bikers would feel like if a slicks and wings racing car were allowed to smash the IOM record. Rationally, it wouldn't prove anything or take anything away from the sport, it's a different code, but emotionally I reckon that would hurt.
Very true. This reminds me of the debate around the 919 Evo breaking all the lap records at different circuits, and the biggie was Bellof's 6min11s. Personally, the way I see it Bellof's 6min11s record isn't diminished by being broken, just like Bannister's 4min mile - both Bs are still legendary. If the 919 Evo demolished the TT lap record (which it would do, by a massive margin), that to me wouldn't touch the entirely different achievements that are the bike lap records.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-398533...
I think that's what bikers would feel like if a slicks and wings racing car were allowed to smash the IOM record. Rationally, it wouldn't prove anything or take anything away from the sport, it's a different code, but emotionally I reckon that would hurt.
k.In the same way a 2018 superbike versus something from Mike Hailwood's era would arse rape it into oblivion.
Double D keeps harping on about a completely hypothetical lap by the 919, but when presented with very pertinent facts about the 2wd/4wd argument i.e a properly suitable, very well sorted and very expensive works prepared car, driven by a driver of immense skill, with enormous knowledge of the circuit, laps slower than a £15000/£20000 showroom bike, it's just overlooked, with nothing to add.
The Subaru in year 1 actually did 118mph, slower than a 100bhp SuperTwin, and then with a much concerted effort by the team, came back in year 2, with a hugely modified car, and a huge amount of money spent, with a lot more HP, and did 128 mph, around the same as a 130 bhp 600 SuperSport
Mightily impressive times for the bikes given their minute contact patches, and at odds with the statements about contact area by some on here
I'll say it again, it's not that clear cut, and the facts above demonstrate that (by facts, don't mean a 172 mph lap played on a computer game, simulator lol)
As with Wormus, as a regular visitor to the TT, I have seen these laps first hand, and again as a driver, and rider, enjoy the spectacle of 2wd and 4wd in (almost) equal measure
The Subaru in year 1 actually did 118mph, slower than a 100bhp SuperTwin, and then with a much concerted effort by the team, came back in year 2, with a hugely modified car, and a huge amount of money spent, with a lot more HP, and did 128 mph, around the same as a 130 bhp 600 SuperSport
Mightily impressive times for the bikes given their minute contact patches, and at odds with the statements about contact area by some on here
I'll say it again, it's not that clear cut, and the facts above demonstrate that (by facts, don't mean a 172 mph lap played on a computer game, simulator lol)
As with Wormus, as a regular visitor to the TT, I have seen these laps first hand, and again as a driver, and rider, enjoy the spectacle of 2wd and 4wd in (almost) equal measure
I think that the thing that gets to me, is the dare I say ignorance or acceptance by some, of the actual surface that makes up the Mountain Circuit. It is all well and good people claiming that the Nurburgring is the same or showing images of an F1 car bouncing over a kerb, but these are nothing like the continual uneven bumps of the TT circuit. An F1 car may have a huge contact patch, massive levels of grip and incredible downforce, but these make for nothing on anything but a purpose built circuit. The same goes for the 919 Porsche. I am not saying that they wouldn't go faster, but until you can completely resurface the TT course to ensure it is billiard top smooth and remove Ballaugh Bridge, the bike is going to remain faster.
DoubleD said:
robinh73 said:
I am not saying that they wouldn't go faster, but until you can completely resurface the TT course to ensure it is billiard top smooth and remove Ballaugh Bridge, the bike is going to remain faster.
You say that like its a fact
DoubleD said:
You say that like its a fact
robinh has raced there, and would be better qualified to comment regarding the surface, dips, crests, cambers, undulations of the course than most (if not all) contributing to this thread, and these are significant factors in this 'discussion'..
robinh73 said:
DoubleD said:
robinh73 said:
I am not saying that they wouldn't go faster, but until you can completely resurface the TT course to ensure it is billiard top smooth and remove Ballaugh Bridge, the bike is going to remain faster.
You say that like its a factProbably wouldn't have much to do with what we call a 'car' either.
However, that always misses the biggest and most impressive thing about the tt.... The sheer bravery/idiocy of the riders, that will never be beaten by anything.
meridian said:
DoubleD said:
You say that like its a fact
robinh has raced there, and would be better qualified to comment regarding the surface, dips, crests, cambers, undulations of the course than most (if not all) contributing to this thread, and these are significant factors in this 'discussion'..robinh73 said:
DoubleD said:
robinh73 said:
I am not saying that they wouldn't go faster, but until you can completely resurface the TT course to ensure it is billiard top smooth and remove Ballaugh Bridge, the bike is going to remain faster.
You say that like its a factGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff