RE: Lancia Delta HF Integrale 8V: Spotted

[Behemoth]

I've an 8 valve but with 16 valve mechanicals & body (8v kat, made for the Swiss market). It's a fabulous car (full leather recaro interior) & the received wisdom about the Evo (nice as they are) really doesn't stand up to scrutiny vs the massive price differential. Most Evos will be better kept than most 8/16v, that's about it.

[s m]

Andy665 said:

Relative bargain compared to many an old Ford

Both of which are massive bargains compared to many old Ferraris

[Pedrokat1]

IMI A said:

Other than the fact anyone who knows Integrales will know that this car is worn out by 65,000 miles and will require a full restoration not a bad spot. Worth circa £10k gbp

Interesting...... my evo2 with 100k must be completely shot then...... oh no wait.... it just passed mot and the only advisory was "In excellent condition"...
.. the specialists in these cars say one in standard tune is in Fact very reliable and can achieve high mileage....assuming servicing is kept up..... as an owner of mine for 15 years I would have to agree with them..... I'm not saying they are cheap to maintain correctly only that they can do much more than 65k..... mine had 80k on it when I bought it in 2003.... and here we are 15 years later still putting a smile on my face..
I agree values have gone crazy.... i guess it's a collector's car now.... really value is dependent on what an individual wants to pay for one.... and that's the bottom line...

[SlimJim16v]

£18k must be the top end for an 8v, with 16v probably available for this too.

The 8v though is too high/soft, wheels/tyres too skinny, under powered and the flat bonnet doesn't look right.
The 16v addresses this to some extent, with a few simple mods further improving suspension, power and aerodynamics.

The headlights are fking useless though.

They are as reliable as most cars if looked after, although they suffer with rust on the rear of the roof and around the base of the windscreen. They are 30 years old though.

I do now think the 8/16v body has dated better than the evo though, with a more classic look.

Oh, I should add that the steering feel and handling are amazing.

Edited by SlimJim16v on Saturday 9th June 22:30

[Midshipracer]

If winning pedigree is a measure of how much the car will be worth, Why the hell is an Escort Cosworth worth 27k when it didnt win much and a Toyota Celica ST205 is work a lot less? Even if you take into account the cheating of the ST205.

The Carlos Sinz ST165/185 are not worth anywhere near a the Escort

[chilled901]

I wouldn't mind getting one if they made it in RHD.





/s

[aelord]

Had a couple of Evos in the 90s. If Ferrari made a hot hatch, they would be integrale evos.

But these things rot and suffer from early metal fatigue and cracking at stress points in the shell. A cooking 8valve will be just as bad as an evo2. Heart over head purchase, only for the romantics.

[IMI A]

Pedrokat1 said:

IMI A said:

Other than the fact anyone who knows Integrales will know that this car is worn out by 65,000 miles and will require a full restoration not a bad spot. Worth circa £10k gbp

Interesting...... my evo2 with 100k must be completely shot then...... oh no wait.... it just passed mot and the only advisory was "In excellent condition"...
.. the specialists in these cars say one in standard tune is in Fact very reliable and can achieve high mileage....assuming servicing is kept up..... as an owner of mine for 15 years I would have to agree with them..... I'm not saying they are cheap to maintain correctly only that they can do much more than 65k..... mine had 80k on it when I bought it in 2003.... and here we are 15 years later still putting a smile on my face..
I agree values have gone crazy.... i guess it's a collector's car now.... really value is dependent on what an individual wants to pay for one.... and that's the bottom line...

Don't get me wrong if pampered and kept in doors and well maintained they're sturdy cars. As you'll know you really need to stay on top of maintenance 24/7. They did win like 10 WRC championships after all. If poorly maintained and left outside like the majority were they're money pits and eventually the cars just rust to dust. I actually prefer the 8v to the later cars. Its an all time hall of fame car for me but this one for sale whilst lovely and original I guarantee needs a full nut and bolt restoration by someone that knows the marque. You can see the rust in all the usual places (I've seen the car). You won't know the extent of the restoration required until you get to the inner structure where literally everything may need replacing and parts nowadays are very difficult to find as you know.

[IMI A]

And just to add even at £10k I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy it. As someone else said £5k car in reality but classic car market is nuts. Its like the running costs for these type of cars is completely being ignored.

I'd still give £10k for her and give it to this guy to restore. Full not and bolt job. Would be at lease £20k to do it properly and then you're into Evo money. There in lies the conundrum even at £10k but I'd lay her on at that money as I prefer the 8v on its skinny tyres and 15 inch wheels

https://petrolicious.com/films/this-humble-lancia-...

[anonymous-user]

I owned a rather beautiful winner red Evo 1 'grale back in the late 1990's (and sold it at pretty much the low point in the market DOH!!) and whilst it was a lovely car, and turned heads everywhere, in every other respect it was a disappointment, and that was back when normal cars were no way as good as they are now!
Without a cage and WRC stiffening plates, the shell is floppier than a jelly, meaning they roll round like a boat, and you can't stiffen the suspension because that just flexes the shell instead. And these days, 210 bhp is going to see you comprehensively spanked by even a moderate Hot hatch and most of the TDIs too. I can see why they EVOs cost more, simply because they look soo much better, much closer to the rally cars that everyone remembers, but an old slow, soggy 8v, er no thanks, i could think of much better things for my £18k.......

[Olivera]

Max_Torque said:

Without a cage and WRC stiffening plates, the shell is floppier than a jelly, meaning they roll round like a boat, and you can't stiffen the suspension because that just flexes the shell instead.

Interesting. I wonder if the Lancia was uniquely (bad) in this regard, or were the other WRC homologation road cars of the early 90s the same?

[SlimJim16v]

I think it was the only 5 door hatchback and was also designed in the 70s. As far as I know there weren't any mods to strengthen the body when it was fitted with a 2 litre turboed engine and 4wd.

[Tim16V]

Olivera said:

Max_Torque said:

Without a cage and WRC stiffening plates, the shell is floppier than a jelly, meaning they roll round like a boat, and you can't stiffen the suspension because that just flexes the shell instead.

Interesting. I wonder if the Lancia was uniquely (bad) in this regard, or were the other WRC homologation road cars of the early 90s the same?

The shell was originally designed for the 1.3 and 1.5 engines in the early 1980's and wasn't adequately strengthened later on. The Evos crack around the front bulkhead as a result.

[anonymous-user]

Tim16V said:

Olivera said:

Max_Torque said:

Without a cage and WRC stiffening plates, the shell is floppier than a jelly, meaning they roll round like a boat, and you can't stiffen the suspension because that just flexes the shell instead.

Interesting. I wonder if the Lancia was uniquely (bad) in this regard, or were the other WRC homologation road cars of the early 90s the same?

The shell was originally designed for the 1.3 and 1.5 engines in the early 1980's and wasn't adequately strengthened later on. The Evos crack around the front bulkhead as a result.

And the windscreen, and where the B pillars meet the floor, and where the rear subframe attaches to the underbody, and where the front wishbones meet the front subframe! Designed in the early 1970's with manual methods and no stress analysis or crash target to meet, for little puny engines, small wheels and tyres and very soft suspension.

the Works car had about 30 extra stiffening plates welded in, a massive multipoint cage (well massive for the time, pretty puny these days) and custom front and rear subframes.

i tried various rear anti-roll bars on my Evo to try to get it to handle nicely (to try to unload the front tyres a bit) and all it did was bend the shell, to the point where you could actually hear the rear door catches rattling and banging as your turned.......

[Olivera]

Given the floppiness of the chassis, which can't be conducive to maintaining the correct geometry, how did the Integrale develop a reputation for being a good handler?

[rossub]

Max_Torque said:

And the windscreen, and where the B pillars meet the floor, and where the rear subframe attaches to the underbody, and where the front wishbones meet the front subframe! Designed in the early 1970's with manual methods and no stress analysis or crash target to meet, for little puny engines, small wheels and tyres and very soft suspension.

the Works car had about 30 extra stiffening plates welded in, a massive multipoint cage (well massive for the time, pretty puny these days) and custom front and rear subframes.

i tried various rear anti-roll bars on my Evo to try to get it to handle nicely (to try to unload the front tyres a bit) and all it did was bend the shell, to the point where you could actually hear the rear door catches rattling and banging as your turned.......

Well that’s one way to completely kill any demand for one from anyone reading this

[s m]

Olivera said:

Given the floppiness of the chassis, which can't be conducive to maintaining the correct geometry, how did the Integrale develop a reputation for being a good handler?

From an era when all cars were a lot bendier/floppier than now probably - it gained its reputation amongst cars from 30 years ago.

One of these put my Italian-car-loving friend off Italian cars for a long time.
He progressed up through Fiat hot hatches, 105TC, 130 Abarth ....then onto my favourites, the Delta HF Turbo in fwd ...I really liked those.
The natural progression was obviously onto an Integrale. He had what looked to be a lovely 8v ....and for a few days it was.

Then it started going wrong.
Seemingly every other day. We all got used to giving him lifts, helping fix it and so on.

After a fair few months he'd had enough and sold it on whilst it was running well for a few days.
Obviously a Friday afternoon Growler but it was a couple of decades before he dangled his toe in Italian cars with a 156 V6



They do look nice though!

I'd go for the more expensive SZ though, also featured today, rather than this or an EVO variant at 50k

[SlimJim16v]

Max_Torque said:

i tried various rear anti-roll bars on my Evo to try to get it to handle nicely (to try to unload the front tyres a bit) and all it did was bend the shell, to the point where you could actually hear the rear door catches rattling and banging as your turned.......

Although I've heard of most of the stress crack locations, I've never heard about that. I and several people I know used them as intended, including many track days. Yours must've been a dog.

Peel away the door rubbers, if you find a crack, make a suitably silly offer.

Edited by SlimJim16v on Sunday 10th June 22:59

[sledge68]

Ever driven one or even owned one?

I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.

A motoring icon to car fans.

Chestrockwell said:

18 grand, 18......grand,

I’m a car man, massive car man however I don’t see the appeal with these old Italian heaps of st, 18 thousand pounds.

[rastapasta]

'From 1987-1992, the Delta consecutively won the Group B manufacturers championship'

Did it indeed...