RE: Lancia Delta HF Integrale 8V: Spotted
Discussion
sledge68 said:
Ever driven one or even owned one?
I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
You must have been wearing a pretty darkly tinted pair of glasses!I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
The Evo's have 220bhp / 360Nm (iirc), and run on 205 / 215 tyres, and weight around 1350kg. Whilst they handle ok in a period kind of fashion they wouldn't even see which way a pokey modern diesel went, let alone something like a GolfR etc!
sledge68 said:
A motoring icon to car fans.
They are, but one that is best viewed rather than driven ime.........Fond memories. My first 'decent' car was a 16v. I'd always wanted one. Felt fairly quick for the time (22 odd years ago) but build quality not the best and things were hard to get to adding to labour costs. Was a nice steer though. An Evo came up a few years later from a client (i'm a lawyer) with high miles (120k) but just £5k but he said it was a good one - so bought it - and it was. Very reliable and I put 15,000 or so miles on it. Felt a big step forward in quality over the 8v/16v, wider shell etc. I was always a bit worried about big bills though so promised myself I wouldn't buy another unless fully rebuilt - and one such came up 18 months or so ago - and I love it. Lots of strengthening, FIA cage, big brakes, great suspension, stiff and lots of power. A 'will never sell' car even though it's rarely used. Puts a big smile on my face just owning it.
I can sort of get the current prices but I fear most are now bought by collectors. A standard one is perhaps disappointing on the road compared to moderns but is a great special occasion car and the steering feel is utterly sublime - and something you don't get close to in virtually any other car (or RHD conversions).
I've owned 50 plus cars, many of which have been pretty decent, but i've got more of a 'bond' for integrales than just about anything else despite their shortcomings. I wouldn't pay £18k for an 8V though - but £40k for an Evo feels 'value'.
I can sort of get the current prices but I fear most are now bought by collectors. A standard one is perhaps disappointing on the road compared to moderns but is a great special occasion car and the steering feel is utterly sublime - and something you don't get close to in virtually any other car (or RHD conversions).
I've owned 50 plus cars, many of which have been pretty decent, but i've got more of a 'bond' for integrales than just about anything else despite their shortcomings. I wouldn't pay £18k for an 8V though - but £40k for an Evo feels 'value'.
Was browing for cars yesterday and saw a Delta Integrale at one of the dealers (place in the middle of Hook, Hampshire).
I was just so surprised at seeing one; about £43k, immaculate. Sat between Mondeos and Civics, it really did stand out. But I didn't actually check which version it was ..... my other half didn't know why I went gaga over a small left hand drive car.
I was just so surprised at seeing one; about £43k, immaculate. Sat between Mondeos and Civics, it really did stand out. But I didn't actually check which version it was ..... my other half didn't know why I went gaga over a small left hand drive car.
"Cheaper than you think"..... Bull and sh!t come to mind!!!
Dropping 18k on one of these in that condition, is barking bloody bonkers.
A Fiesta ST would be a better ownership proposition in every single department, unless planning to keep in a dehimidified garage for the next century.
Even the Evo Integrale would struggle to keep up with a Fiesta St on twisty roads such is hatch back progression.
Dropping 18k on one of these in that condition, is barking bloody bonkers.
A Fiesta ST would be a better ownership proposition in every single department, unless planning to keep in a dehimidified garage for the next century.
Even the Evo Integrale would struggle to keep up with a Fiesta St on twisty roads such is hatch back progression.
rastapasta said:
'From 1987-1992, the Delta consecutively won the Group B manufacturers championship'
Did it indeed...
People also seem to forget that the competition of Group A was very small in the early years. As soon as Toyota came in with its ST165 GT-Four it wiped the floor with lancia winning 1990,92,93 and 94 drivers championships. If only Toyota had all the driver's Lancia had it would have gotten the manufacturers as well. Did it indeed...
Funny world we live in that a car that cracks in the a pillars can be worth 50k. Yet a forerunner to the Japanese domination of the WRC can go for a fifth of the price. It even has pop up headlights!
Edited by BricktopST205 on Monday 11th June 16:55
Max_Torque said:
sledge68 said:
Ever driven one or even owned one?
I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
You must have been wearing a pretty darkly tinted pair of glasses!I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
The Evo's have 220bhp / 360Nm (iirc), and run on 205 / 215 tyres, and weight around 1350kg. Whilst they handle ok in a period kind of fashion they wouldn't even see which way a pokey modern diesel went, let alone something like a GolfR etc!
sledge68 said:
A motoring icon to car fans.
They are, but one that is best viewed rather than driven ime.........s m said:
Andy665 said:
Relative bargain compared to many an old Ford
Both of which are massive bargains compared to many old FerrarisA Delta is comparable to an Escort or a Sierra as they're C/D segment family cars at the end of the day. You're suggesting that a Ford can be compared to a Ferrari? Or more to the point a 100K old Ford is good value compared to a Ferrari, some of which can still be had for considerably less than 100k BTW?
Personally the price of certain Fords in today's market is the absolute epitome of evrything that's wrong with the current market bubble and indeed the Delta does seem good value at 18k. If it's straight.
I had heard about the shells issues, compounded by rust in a lot of cases, but what a stunning looking car.
My brother in laws (well, girlfriends brother at the time) very posh mate came over from Jersey in his white 8 valve, it was about 1991 and I had a Manta GTE I was quite proud of, I had a go in the Integrale and was amazed how good it was, apart from him having to tell me when it was ok to overtake, which he wasnt that good at..
It was a revelation, my Manta felt like a slow, lolloping wheezy old dollop after that, there was nothing I could ever hope to afford at the time with the heady 185 bhp, it felt electrifying.
My brother in laws (well, girlfriends brother at the time) very posh mate came over from Jersey in his white 8 valve, it was about 1991 and I had a Manta GTE I was quite proud of, I had a go in the Integrale and was amazed how good it was, apart from him having to tell me when it was ok to overtake, which he wasnt that good at..
It was a revelation, my Manta felt like a slow, lolloping wheezy old dollop after that, there was nothing I could ever hope to afford at the time with the heady 185 bhp, it felt electrifying.
Always wanted one back in the day, visits to Walkers in North Yorkshire when they had a garage full of them (and a Hyena & Delta S4 Stradale). Went to look at a tidy £5k 16v in Newbury in 2009. Passed on it, then the prices went absolutely crazy. I've done the same over the years with E30 M3s, Ur Quattros and Sierra Cosworths. Always left it too late and missed the '£5k' boat. You'd have to be on crack to pay £18k for an 8v Grale.
I did have a Delta HF Turbo. Surprisingly reliable, all-or-nothing old school turbo lag, and better steering feedback than my current VX220. Every time it rained it lost 10kg in weight. Eventually all that was left were 4 Cromodora alloys and some soggy alcantara seats.
I did have a Delta HF Turbo. Surprisingly reliable, all-or-nothing old school turbo lag, and better steering feedback than my current VX220. Every time it rained it lost 10kg in weight. Eventually all that was left were 4 Cromodora alloys and some soggy alcantara seats.
Max_Torque said:
The Evo's have 220bhp / 360Nm (iirc), and run on 205 / 215 tyres, and weight around 1350kg. Whilst they handle ok in a period kind of fashion they wouldn't even see which way a pokey modern diesel went, let alone something like a GolfR etc!
30 year old 215bhp car slower than modern 300bhp car shocker.JMF894 said:
??????
A Delta is comparable to an Escort or a Sierra as they're C/D segment family cars at the end of the day. You're suggesting that a Ford can be compared to a Ferrari? Or more to the point a 100K old Ford is good value compared to a Ferrari, some of which can still be had for considerably less than 100k BTW?
I think certain Fords did get compared to Ferraris - for example the GT40....they even did pretty well at places like Le MansA Delta is comparable to an Escort or a Sierra as they're C/D segment family cars at the end of the day. You're suggesting that a Ford can be compared to a Ferrari? Or more to the point a 100K old Ford is good value compared to a Ferrari, some of which can still be had for considerably less than 100k BTW?
I still remain to be convinced that a £50 million pound Ferrari is 500 times as good to drive as a 100k Ford...because of course, we know it wouldn't be. At that price point you're buying an investment.....
Plus you're buying the top of the market at those prices
Even the classic car mags will tell you that these old exotica are hot, awkward to drive and not that fast compared to something newer
It's some of the old unobtainium like old Ferraris and Porsches that have driven the whole price escalation thing and added heat to the market as people look for the next affordable investment as they can't afford £5 million Ferraris and £1 million Porsches
That's the sort of people that are pushing the prices up old stuff and paying 100k plus for old Sierras, Deltas, E30 BMWs and RS Escorts.....not your average Ford, BM or Lancia enthusiast who has to make do with a Puma or 318is or Delta HF as they can't afford the icon they really want
speedtwelve said:
Always wanted one back in the day, visits to Walkers in North Yorkshire when they had a garage full of them (and a Hyena & Delta S4 Stradale). Went to look at a tidy £5k 16v in Newbury in 2009. Passed on it, then the prices went absolutely crazy. I've done the same over the years with E30 M3s, Ur Quattros and Sierra Cosworths. Always left it too late and missed the '£5k' boat. You'd have to be on crack to pay £18k for an 8v Grale.
I did have a Delta HF Turbo. Surprisingly reliable, all-or-nothing old school turbo lag, and better steering feedback than my current VX220. Every time it rained it lost 10kg in weight. Eventually all that was left were 4 Cromodora alloys and some soggy alcantara seats.
I did have a Delta HF Turbo. Surprisingly reliable, all-or-nothing old school turbo lag, and better steering feedback than my current VX220. Every time it rained it lost 10kg in weight. Eventually all that was left were 4 Cromodora alloys and some soggy alcantara seats.
Even my Integrale owning friend said he should have stuck with his HF Turbo rather than sold it for an Integrale. I'm sure if he had owned a more reliable 'Grale his opinion would have been different....he drove the HF Turbo much harder and it was extremely reliable. He never felt comfortable giving his 'Grale the beans as he said he was always waiting for something to break!!
BricktopST205 said:
rastapasta said:
'From 1987-1992, the Delta consecutively won the Group B manufacturers championship'
Did it indeed...
People also seem to forget that the competition of Group A was very small in the early years. As soon as Toyota came in with its ST165 GT-Four it wiped the floor with lancia winning 1990,92,93 and 94 drivers championships. If only Toyota had all the driver's Lancia had it would have gotten the manufacturers as well. Did it indeed...
Funny world we live in that a car that cracks in the a pillars can be worth 50k. Yet a forerunner to the Japanese domination of the WRC can go for a fifth of the price. It even has pop up headlights!
Edited by BricktopST205 on Monday 11th June 16:55
I would expect a car nearly 30 years newer to perform better, as the integrale performs better then a Hillman Hunter GT for example.
Mine had 300 bhp and 17inch Speedlines, as well as Final Edition suspension.
Who buys an integrale to out run a Golf R FFS, pointless argument?
I bought mine to experience the car and loved every moment.
You can keep your Golf R , there are about 30 in our works car park, yawn, I will stick with my JDM Legacy TwinScroll .
The Evo's have 220bhp / 360Nm (iirc), and run on 205 / 215 tyres, and weight around 1350kg. Whilst they handle ok in a period kind of fashion they wouldn't even see which way a pokey modern diesel went, let alone something like a GolfR etc!
Mine had 300 bhp and 17inch Speedlines, as well as Final Edition suspension.
Who buys an integrale to out run a Golf R FFS, pointless argument?
I bought mine to experience the car and loved every moment.
You can keep your Golf R , there are about 30 in our works car park, yawn, I will stick with my JDM Legacy TwinScroll .
Max_Torque said:
sledge68 said:
Ever driven one or even owned one?
I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
You must have been wearing a pretty darkly tinted pair of glasses!I had a Evo1 for 4 faultless years, the single best car I have ever been in, poised, surefooted, fast, reliable, sublime steering and feedback to the driver, you will wet your self on a twisty road before the car has even broken a sweat.
The Evo's have 220bhp / 360Nm (iirc), and run on 205 / 215 tyres, and weight around 1350kg. Whilst they handle ok in a period kind of fashion they wouldn't even see which way a pokey modern diesel went, let alone something like a GolfR etc!
sledge68 said:
A motoring icon to car fans.
They are, but one that is best viewed rather than driven ime.........M666 EVO said:
British Beef said:
Even the Evo Integrale would struggle to keep up with a Fiesta St on twisty roads such is hatch back progression.
Wow. You clearly haven't driven an EVO. BricktopST205 said:
M666 EVO said:
British Beef said:
Even the Evo Integrale would struggle to keep up with a Fiesta St on twisty roads such is hatch back progression.
Wow. You clearly haven't driven an EVO. I doubt the owners of the old stuff were worried particularly though - they probably bought their older cars for a bit of driving fun. That's been the case when I've driven my older stuiff at least
M666 EVO said:
British Beef said:
Even the Evo Integrale would struggle to keep up with a Fiesta St on twisty roads such is hatch back progression.
Wow. You clearly haven't driven an EVO. A std Evo integrale gets pasted by a Fiesta ST these days. The Evo had a claim 220bhp, but if it makes that (and i'm going to suggest most don't) they make it up at 6500rpm and don't come on boost till around 4000. The fiesta makes everyone of it's claimed bhp (and possibly a few more thanks to modern CoP requirements) makes more torque, at a lower rpm, is lighter, is massively stiffer and handles better, has much more grip and 30+ years of suspension development. Fact is, the 'grale is an icon for good reason, but like most icons, it's time has now passed....
Has anyone fixed the door handle "issue" yet?
I used to have a stunning metallic grey 16V, with Borbet Magnesium 5 spokes, in the early 00's that was the most wonderful car to drive quickly on a B road, nothing really come close to it. It was quite thirsty and rather costly to maintain especially as a student at the time. I sold it for £900... £900
the engine did smell a lot like it was running on coal and make a hideous rattling noise
They might not be the quickest point to point compared to a fiesta ST, but I know which one I would rather take.
I used to have a stunning metallic grey 16V, with Borbet Magnesium 5 spokes, in the early 00's that was the most wonderful car to drive quickly on a B road, nothing really come close to it. It was quite thirsty and rather costly to maintain especially as a student at the time. I sold it for £900... £900
the engine did smell a lot like it was running on coal and make a hideous rattling noise They might not be the quickest point to point compared to a fiesta ST, but I know which one I would rather take.
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