RE: Alfa Romeo SZ: Spotted

[Strugs]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

davebem said:

I love these, glad Alfa had the guts to make it, Im trying to think what everyone was driving on the road that year to compare to, I guess Mk2 Fiestas, Mk4 Escorts, Cavaliers, didnt the MX5 come out around the same time as this..

The Corrado VR6 came out in 1992 and ended production in late 1995 (although mine was registered in 1996) and had a 0-60 of 6.4s.

I remember at the time thinking that the SZ was awesome, but that its 0-60 time was rather disappointing and that I certainly didn't expect it to be slower than my Corrado to 60.

Edit: Also, 1996 would have seen the first of the Prodrive Imprezas and also the Escort Cosworth would have been in production for several years, both of which would out-accelerate the SZ. So I think it is fair comment to express surprise that the SZ isn't more accelerative.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Sunday 10th June 22:00

The SZ finished production in '91 (the car in the ad is shown as '96 because that'll be when it was imported..) and is (essentially) based on the 75 which was first built in 1985. Different generation..

[Small Car]

Bought one with a mate. Great apart from the bubbling of the paint on the fibreglass. We bought it cheap, spent a load on maintenance and got out even. Quite hard to sell really!

[sng45]

I have an SZ parked up in my garage ( in-between my 911 G50 3.2 and my supercharged Elise ) and it almost seems that that's where it fits ! Incredible grip and involving to drive ( just like the Elise ) and great for longer distances and comfortable to drive ( just like the 911 ) - so sitting somewhere between the two in driving style and capability ( quite literally in my case !)

My SZ has a 24V V6 with high lift cams and straight through exhaust so is far more "sporty" than a standard SZ and it sounds fantastic. I've just spent a fortune on it mechanically to bring it up to scratch and I've always been a big fan of the "quirky" styling. It looks good from every angle and has a real presence on the road. That said, because I use the other two more, paradoxically because it sits between them in "drivability" I was seriously debating selling it and had sent some details to a dealer for SoR earlier today - perhaps after reading this article I need to have a serious re think and make the effort to use it more - first world problems etc !

Re the earlier comments suggesting the SZ isn't fast enough, I've always subscribed to the adage "It's not how fast you go, but how you go fast " - and also a comment I read in the Porsche 356 Registry magazine sometime ago "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than to drive a fast car slow" ! ( although the SZ is certainly fast enough, particularly for the roads as they are today )

Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th June 23:25

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Strugs said:

The SZ finished production in '91 (the car in the ad is shown as '96 because that'll be when it was imported..) and is (essentially) based on the 75 which was first built in 1985. Different generation..

Ah, ok. Thanks for the correction / clarification. Yes, that would certainly account for it.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

sng45 said:

and also a comment I read in the Porsche 356 Registry magazine sometime ago "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than to drive a fast car slow"

This is definitely true. Some of the most fun I have had on public roads in recent years has been in a Suzuki Swift Sport MK1. By contrast, my Sagaris is really no fun any more on public roads.

[s m]

sng45 said:

I have an SZ parked up in my garage ( in-between my 911 G50 3.2 and my supercharged Elise ) and it almost seems that that's where it fits ! Incredible grip and involving to drive ( just like the Elise ) and great for longer distances and comfortable to drive ( just like the 911 ) - so sitting somewhere between the two in driving style and capability ( quite literally in my case !)

My SZ has a 24V V6 with high lift cams and straight through exhaust so is far more "sporty" than a standard SZ and it sounds fantastic. I've just spent a fortune on it mechanically to bring it up to scratch and I've always been a big fan of the "quirky" styling. It looks good from every angle and has a real presence on the road. That said, because I use the other two more, paradoxically because it sits between them in "drivability" I was seriously debating selling it and had sent some details to a dealer for SoR earlier today - perhaps after reading this article I need to have a serious re think and make the effort to use it more - first world problems etc !

Re the earlier comments suggesting the SZ isn't fast enough, I've always subscribed to the adage "It's not how fast you go, but how you go fast " - and also a comment I read in the Porsche 356 Registry magazine sometime ago "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than to drive a fast car slow" ! ( although the SZ is certainly fast enough, particularly for the roads as they are today )

Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th June 23:25

In the old Performance Car magazine, prior to EVO magazine, they used to have a Performance Car of the Year feature.

In 1990, according to the journalists panel, the Alfa SZ placed second. Lancia Delta Integrale 16v came in 4th place and the E30 M3 Sport Evolution was in 5th place with the Lotus Elan SE in 6th place.

Shows how well the SZ used to be regarded.

It was Brian Laban's nomination that year

[Dale487]

s m said:

sng45 said:

I have an SZ parked up in my garage ( in-between my 911 G50 3.2 and my supercharged Elise ) and it almost seems that that's where it fits ! Incredible grip and involving to drive ( just like the Elise ) and great for longer distances and comfortable to drive ( just like the 911 ) - so sitting somewhere between the two in driving style and capability ( quite literally in my case !)

My SZ has a 24V V6 with high lift cams and straight through exhaust so is far more "sporty" than a standard SZ and it sounds fantastic. I've just spent a fortune on it mechanically to bring it up to scratch and I've always been a big fan of the "quirky" styling. It looks good from every angle and has a real presence on the road. That said, because I use the other two more, paradoxically because it sits between them in "drivability" I was seriously debating selling it and had sent some details to a dealer for SoR earlier today - perhaps after reading this article I need to have a serious re think and make the effort to use it more - first world problems etc !

Re the earlier comments suggesting the SZ isn't fast enough, I've always subscribed to the adage "It's not how fast you go, but how you go fast " - and also a comment I read in the Porsche 356 Registry magazine sometime ago "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than to drive a fast car slow" ! ( although the SZ is certainly fast enough, particularly for the roads as they are today )

Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th June 23:25

In the old Performance Car magazine, prior to EVO magazine, they used to have a Performance Car of the Year feature.

In 1990, according to the journalists panel, the Alfa SZ placed second. Lancia Delta Integrale 16v came in 4th place and the E30 M3 Sport Evolution was in 5th place with the Lotus Elan SE in 6th place.

Shows how well the SZ used to be regarded.

It was Brian Laban's nomination that year

What came first?

[sng45]

Interesting SZ video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j3K6ctySyU

[rastapasta]

Saw one at the Kerenzerberg rennen last Saturday.

[Peppka]

Helicopter123 said:

Always loved these but had forgotten how slow they were.

That's A4 diesel slow.

Jamie Porter of Alfa Workshop once took me for a test drive in an SZ that he had just fitted a supercharger too, somewhat faster than a A4 diesel I think - wheel spin in 3rd in the dry.
Before anybody says anything the Busso V6 is perfectly capable of producing in the low-mid 300's BHP and can be good for 200,000 + miles.

[JMF894]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

davebem said:

I love these, glad Alfa had the guts to make it, Im trying to think what everyone was driving on the road that year to compare to, I guess Mk2 Fiestas, Mk4 Escorts, Cavaliers, didnt the MX5 come out around the same time as this..

The Corrado VR6 came out in 1992 and ended production in late 1995 (although mine was registered in 1996) and had a 0-60 of 6.4s.

I remember at the time thinking that the SZ was awesome, but that its 0-60 time was rather disappointing and that I certainly didn't expect it to be slower than my Corrado to 60.

Edit: Also, 1996 would have seen the first of the Prodrive Imprezas and also the Escort Cosworth would have been in production for several years, both of which would out-accelerate the SZ. So I think it is fair comment to express surprise that the SZ isn't more accelerative.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Sunday 10th June 22:00

Slightly unfair comparison as both the scooby and the cossie were 4wd so have misleading 0-60 times. Once up and running my 210bhp mk1 Octy vRS would easily keep up with an early wrx, so i imagine the same would apply to the SZ. for one would have one in a heartbeat over other cars mentioned here. I currently have a 310bhp 440nm Saab 9-5 Aero properly sorted including a quaife and it is borderline too quick for the public road imho.

[Macboy]

Andy665 said:

Was not that long ago these were around the 20k mark - another car that's slipped through my fingers

Was not that long ago you'd struggle to sell one for £14k. Well 15 years ago, but there was little love and even fewer buyers.

[RedAndy]

loved these in SupercarsII

Wonderland and The Seer ftw.

[PoopahScoopah]

sng45 said:

Interesting SZ video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j3K6ctySyU

THis line from the video sums it up perfectly IMO....

"difficult to accept for not a passionate eye"

[pSyCoSiS]

Absolutely love these cars - look so outlandish and very brutish.

Fell in love with this ever since owning a red Matchbox model back in circa 1991 - anyone remember those?

Those 3 single headlamps on each side and those split rims are just epic.

[MiseryStreak]

Il Mostro! Awesome things. I remember being overtaken by one of these driving up the A23, the noise was so good I had to try and stay with it all the way to the M25 (I was 2 cylinders but only 23bhp short in my DC2 Integra Type-R). It might not be fast by diesel A4 standards (!) but it certainly had the measure of the ITR at motorway speeds.

I remember looking them up afterwards (I think this was 2010) and there was one for sale for £21K. I thought, Ouch, still too expensive, I'll wait...

[sng45]

Peppka said:

Helicopter123 said:

Always loved these but had forgotten how slow they were.

That's A4 diesel slow.

Jamie Porter of Alfa Workshop once took me for a test drive in an SZ that he had just fitted a supercharger too, somewhat faster than a A4 diesel I think - wheel spin in 3rd in the dry.
Before anybody says anything the Busso V6 is perfectly capable of producing in the low-mid 300's BHP and can be good for 200,000 + miles.

That was my car, the chap who owned it had the supercharger made specifically for the car. No longer has the supercharger fitted but does have high lift cams, 24v engine and straight through exhaust - sounds great !

[footsoldier]

Always liked these, and seeing one at the London Concours last week, followed by this story, is testing my resolve!

Pricey for sure, but "normal" Integrales are in this range now. I got mine at £20k, so on average would be doing alright! I'm sure they must be negotiable as well, as they seem relatively sticky, having kept and eye open on and off for a while.

[J4CKO]

Helicopter123 said:

Always loved these but had forgotten how slow they were.

That's A4 diesel slow.

Even at the time I remember reading that the performance wasnt much to shout about given how it looked.

[s m]

Dale487 said:

s m said:

sng45 said:

I have an SZ parked up in my garage ( in-between my 911 G50 3.2 and my supercharged Elise ) and it almost seems that that's where it fits ! Incredible grip and involving to drive ( just like the Elise ) and great for longer distances and comfortable to drive ( just like the 911 ) - so sitting somewhere between the two in driving style and capability ( quite literally in my case !)

My SZ has a 24V V6 with high lift cams and straight through exhaust so is far more "sporty" than a standard SZ and it sounds fantastic. I've just spent a fortune on it mechanically to bring it up to scratch and I've always been a big fan of the "quirky" styling. It looks good from every angle and has a real presence on the road. That said, because I use the other two more, paradoxically because it sits between them in "drivability" I was seriously debating selling it and had sent some details to a dealer for SoR earlier today - perhaps after reading this article I need to have a serious re think and make the effort to use it more - first world problems etc !

Re the earlier comments suggesting the SZ isn't fast enough, I've always subscribed to the adage "It's not how fast you go, but how you go fast " - and also a comment I read in the Porsche 356 Registry magazine sometime ago "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than to drive a fast car slow" ! ( although the SZ is certainly fast enough, particularly for the roads as they are today )

Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th June 23:25

In the old Performance Car magazine, prior to EVO magazine, they used to have a Performance Car of the Year feature.

In 1990, according to the journalists panel, the Alfa SZ placed second. Lancia Delta Integrale 16v came in 4th place and the E30 M3 Sport Evolution was in 5th place with the Lotus Elan SE in 6th place.

Shows how well the SZ used to be regarded.

It was Brian Laban's nomination that year

What came first?

20v Quattro won
Alfa SZ 2nd
TVR S3 3rd
Delta Integrale 16v 4th
E30 M3 Sport Evo 5th
Merc SL 6th
Elan SE 7th

From the article

".....drive the M3 round a track with the Alfa SZ behind and the message is clear. While you are fighting to keep the nose pointing even vaguely in the chosen direction of travel, the chap waiting to get by is combing his hair..."

"Everyone said it had the best chassis of all the cars we had assembled. Some said it has the best chassis of any car...."

Certainly was a grippy thing for its time even though a new GT86 generates the same lateral g on the skid pan now.