Horses shouldn't be allowed on the country roads
Discussion
The Wookie said:
One of my work colleagues is a keen cyclist, someone in his club rode head down, full tilt straight into the back of a stationary artic on a time trial a couple of years ago and was killed instantly
It's not just competitive cyclists that dive headlong into situations they can't see, because the alternative is to lose a few seconds...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoD8-yjgeGM
The Wookie said:
One of my work colleagues is a keen cyclist, someone in his club rode head down, full tilt straight into the back of a stationary artic on a time trial a couple of years ago and was killed instantly
Ouch!This is also a good demonstration of how cyclists don't always look up. This guy is obviously transfixed by his own front wheel.
https://youtu.be/9OrKLGEOVRA
The Wookie said:
One of my work colleagues is a keen cyclist, someone in his club rode head down, full tilt straight into the back of a stationary artic on a time trial a couple of years ago and was killed instantly
It’s sad to say but that’s pure Darwin Awards territory. Unless the chap was mentally disabled then he would have been fully aware of the concept of other things being on a public road and made the clear, personal choice to not look where he was going. Back in the day when time trials were still run on the A1 and surrounding roads south of Blyth, Notts...
There had been many complaints about head down cyclists and the police came to have a look during a Sunday morning event. A local cycling bigwig was in the back of a parked traffic car, explaining how cyclists were very careful and that the event organisers had stressed safety etc. etc.
Then, bang crash wallop, a competitor in the event rode straight into the back of the car! When the situation was examined, there was a wholly unimpeded view of the fully liveried and safely parked car for 1.1 miles...
No other cyclist ever totally ripped the piss out of him about it whenever they saw him in cafes / on the road / wherever. No sir, never.
There had been many complaints about head down cyclists and the police came to have a look during a Sunday morning event. A local cycling bigwig was in the back of a parked traffic car, explaining how cyclists were very careful and that the event organisers had stressed safety etc. etc.
Then, bang crash wallop, a competitor in the event rode straight into the back of the car! When the situation was examined, there was a wholly unimpeded view of the fully liveried and safely parked car for 1.1 miles...
No other cyclist ever totally ripped the piss out of him about it whenever they saw him in cafes / on the road / wherever. No sir, never.
Shuvi McTupya said:
Obviously they need to aware of what is going on, but in a lot of situations they are not looking where they are going..how many people in this group can see where they are going ?
Out of the 20(I think?) riders in that front group, I only count 2 who we can say for sure cannot see where they are going, at the precise moment that photo was snapped. And one who's about to get a much closer view of the tarmac 
Even so, it's a bit unfair to use a single snapshot of the moment when their heads are down to make a case that cyclists pedal blind for the majority of the time. The two with their heads down are standing in their pedals, so applying power. It's natural to glance down for the short period you're doing that, but it doesn't mean that they weren't looking ahead just prior to the photograph being taken so they can judge any obstacles in their path.
I'm not defending the cyclists in the video, by the way. Stupid behaviour by every single one of them - passing too fast and too close, and I didn't hear one of them call a warning to the horse rider. I'm not even convinced that it was caused by not looking where they were going; I've ridden fast on the road, and even with my head lowered, I can still see far enough ahead to stop or avoid obstacles. I think they just saw the horse and rider as an obstacle they would pass fast and close because there was a gap on the inside. Cretinous behaviour.
Edited by Conscript on Tuesday 19th June 09:19
We were on a tour of the Peak District on Sunday. Being the first car away we always slow down to a crawl, wave to and say hello to horse riders, telling them that there are more cars following and we're always thanked by them.
This year we met a few thousand cyclists on the Eroica Britannia event. We slowed and waved, they waved back, all very friendly and good humoured.
Country roads are shared spaces, a bit of 'give and take' is all that's needed; it's not so difficult.
This year we met a few thousand cyclists on the Eroica Britannia event. We slowed and waved, they waved back, all very friendly and good humoured.
Country roads are shared spaces, a bit of 'give and take' is all that's needed; it's not so difficult.
PESKYWAABBIT said:
I'm from Suffolk and I live opposite a farm which also teaches adults and young ones to ride horses on the side. They have absolutely acres of land, not planted fields, just acres of grass and they still feel the need to walk their horses along the country roads.
Our village is only accessed by 4 small roads and each of them is only the width of one car. There are very few passing places and buses very often struggle to get through at all but still the horse riders walk the horse along the roads and the blind bends. Does my nut in.I honestly don't speed around my village due to often encountering a car coming round the other way but when you meet a horse, it's a pain in the arse.
They also allow the horse to sh*t all over the road. They often dump a load outside our house and when it rains, cars drive through it and it splats all up the side of your car. Fantastic. I see no excuse why they can't pick it up either. I was told by one of the equestrian types that the reason they don't pick it up is that the animal doesn't eat meat so what it drops is completely harmless.
If that's the case then any vegetarian or vegan could pull their trousers down right now and lay a brick in the street. Mental.
Get over yourselfOur village is only accessed by 4 small roads and each of them is only the width of one car. There are very few passing places and buses very often struggle to get through at all but still the horse riders walk the horse along the roads and the blind bends. Does my nut in.I honestly don't speed around my village due to often encountering a car coming round the other way but when you meet a horse, it's a pain in the arse.
They also allow the horse to sh*t all over the road. They often dump a load outside our house and when it rains, cars drive through it and it splats all up the side of your car. Fantastic. I see no excuse why they can't pick it up either. I was told by one of the equestrian types that the reason they don't pick it up is that the animal doesn't eat meat so what it drops is completely harmless.
If that's the case then any vegetarian or vegan could pull their trousers down right now and lay a brick in the street. Mental.
Just prior to the impact the rider is taking a left of center road position.
At this point she is forcing a group of cyclists to bunch, slow and move to their right in order to overtake. This left a gap on her left where there is a opportunity for the chancer in question to maintain full speed and overtake a number of his competitors.
Bear in mind this is not a casual cyclist but a racer in risk versus reward mode. There is the chance of an accident balanced against a gain of multiple race positions. Ask anyone who's raced anything, cars bikes, motorbikes, horses and they'll tell you maneuvers like that are a no brainer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AntTKfRO5po
Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
At this point she is forcing a group of cyclists to bunch, slow and move to their right in order to overtake. This left a gap on her left where there is a opportunity for the chancer in question to maintain full speed and overtake a number of his competitors.
Bear in mind this is not a casual cyclist but a racer in risk versus reward mode. There is the chance of an accident balanced against a gain of multiple race positions. Ask anyone who's raced anything, cars bikes, motorbikes, horses and they'll tell you maneuvers like that are a no brainer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AntTKfRO5po
Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
Tannedbaldhead said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AntTKfRO5po
Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
The difference is that that is a controlled environment. The only people present are those who are aware of and accept the risk, either as a spectator or competitor or marshal, and is choosing to participate by being present. You have, I presume, noticed all the signs...?Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
They aren't a recent thing. I remember them from being taken to Donington by my dad in the 70s.
The horse rider was NOT a participant in that event. They were somebody trying to go about their business.
Tannedbaldhead said:
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked.
Really? On a public road?So if I race my car on the road and kill someone, that's OK is it? Or is it different rules for knobs on bicycles?
TooMany2cvs said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AntTKfRO5po
Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
The difference is that that is a controlled environment. The only people present are those who are aware of and accept the risk, either as a spectator or competitor or marshal, and is choosing to participate by being present. You have, I presume, noticed all the signs...?Check this out. Normally driving flat out on loose surfaces at crowds of people would be considered as unacceptable behaviour. Listening to Colin McRae speak to his co-driver there is no doubt he is fully aware of the dangers of his situation yet he continues to drive at full speed. In spite of this, had he killed someone his innocence would have been absolute as would be the organizers' guilt.
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
They aren't a recent thing. I remember them from being taken to Donington by my dad in the 70s.
The horse rider was NOT a participant in that event. They were somebody trying to go about their business.
As I said racers race and while doing so take a mind-set outwith the normal parameters of what is an acceptable risk. It is therefore the responsibility of the organizers to factor this into their risk assessments and method statements.
Tannedbaldhead said:
I'm not saying the horse-rider was in any way to blame. She was indeed an innocent going about her business. Fault lay with the organizers for no advanced signage or no warning signage at the time.
As I said racers race and while doing so take a mind-set outwith the normal parameters of what is an acceptable risk. It is therefore the responsibility of the organizers to factor this into their risk assessments and method statements.
It's the responsibility of anyone in any sport to participate within the rules of that sport - whether that's rugby players avoiding dangerous tackles, boxers avoiding low punches, race drivers slowing down under yellows or cyclists following the rules of the road.As I said racers race and while doing so take a mind-set outwith the normal parameters of what is an acceptable risk. It is therefore the responsibility of the organizers to factor this into their risk assessments and method statements.
Mave said:
It's the responsibility of anyone in any sport to participate within the rules of that sport - whether that's rugby players avoiding dangerous tackles, boxers avoiding low punches, race drivers slowing down under yellows or cyclists following the rules of the road.
Yes, but i am sure when the riders agreed to follow the rules of the road, that didn't include slowing to 5mph if they encountered a horse.If they came across a funeral procession would they be expected to stay behind it?
Tannedbaldhead said:
Racers race. The consequences of this are what they are. Competitors, spectators and the wrong people in the wrong place die let alone horses getting spooked. It is the job of the organizers to mitigate against this.
Totally missing the point. Racers race but on race tracks or closed roads at events. Cycling has an alleviation to use open public highways but with a lot of caveats..Rallying takes place on closed roads. Essentially the closed roads become tracks and the road traffic act lifted. Spectators attending the event have made a conscious acknowledgement that they are going to see rallying and accept it’s incumbent risks.
Racing on a live highway. The highway is still open to all the myriad other users who have not made a choice with their involvement. These road users have no regulatory required knowledge of the machinations of road racing in various forms and it’s associated behaviours. Dealing with racing on live roads is not covered under regulatory training for obvious reasons, it’s not allowed. The road traffic act is in full force. Everyone on the roads are required to use the road within the act.
Cycling has one of the only alleviations to actual racing on a live road. And then, if aspects of the race are anticipated to be in conflict with the rules of the road then the cycling organisers should apply to have the road shut. It’s in the regulations. No ifs, no buts.
Riders, like any road user legally have complete and full responsibility for their own behaviour when on the road. If they can’t follow the rules and ride with due consideration to others, they shouldn’t use a live highway.
Edited by Buggyjam on Wednesday 20th June 01:29
Shuvi McTupya said:
Mave said:
It's the responsibility of anyone in any sport to participate within the rules of that sport - whether that's rugby players avoiding dangerous tackles, boxers avoiding low punches, race drivers slowing down under yellows or cyclists following the rules of the road.
Yes, but i am sure when the riders agreed to follow the rules of the road, that didn't include slowing to 5mph if they encountered a horse.Shuvi McTupya said:
If they came across a funeral procession would they be expected to stay behind it?
That's a question of respect and etiquette rather than following the rules of the road.Shuvi McTupya said:
Yes, but i am sure when the riders agreed to follow the rules of the road, that didn't include slowing to 5mph if they encountered a horse.
They are indeed expected to slow down for horses as is anyone using the road!I think the kernel of the issue is buried in the sentiments on this page. Cyclists racing on the road aren’t racers. They’re road users.
Cyclists aren’t road racing on their private little race track formost, and happen to be on a live road doing their best to follow the rules, if it suits.
When the cyclists ride on a live road they are road users in total, racing secondary. Their behaviour is not the organisers responsibility and no one is able to shoulder the blame for their own actions. Like anyone, when they ride on the road they accept full responsibility for their own driving or riding.
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