RE: Porsche wants you to know the Taycan is coming
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
Have a look at the ev west Tesla powered m3 they run for pikes peak and tell me that looks dull.
I think we’re at chalk and cheese with this. No looking at videos of speed begins to join up with what I’m saying.Equally, being individuals if you’re not someone (genuinely no criticism) who ever found much of an emotive response to those inputs then most likely my points would not ring. But for an awful lot of people it did and does.
A common straw man response from EV fanatics is to infer the rumblers all only accept things as they are, or were. This is factually incorrect.
Rather it’s having an alternative opinion and suggestions pitched to a frankly infant technology that is stubbornly blasting on a single minded trajectory led by company that at its core debases the very essence of what has made car driving emotive. People don’t like being told what to feel. Rather we hope they listen and think laterally.
I think you're completely mistaking what I'm saying.
I have an ev (we'll phev) it's amazing as transport goes, wafting around silently is really relaxing.
I also own an mx5 because that's a very different car, far more driver involvement, gears, clutch etc. Very few performance cars have clutches any more...
Both very different cars, and I'm pretty sure a new Tesla roadster will be fun too, it won't be the same as the mx5 or a gt2 Porsche. But not fun? Yeah nah.
I have an ev (we'll phev) it's amazing as transport goes, wafting around silently is really relaxing.
I also own an mx5 because that's a very different car, far more driver involvement, gears, clutch etc. Very few performance cars have clutches any more...
Both very different cars, and I'm pretty sure a new Tesla roadster will be fun too, it won't be the same as the mx5 or a gt2 Porsche. But not fun? Yeah nah.
Buggyjam said:
I think we’re at chalk and cheese with this. No looking at videos of speed begins to join up with what I’m saying.
Equally, being individuals if you’re not someone (genuinely no criticism) who ever found much of an emotive response to those inputs then most likely my points would not ring. But for an awful lot of people it did and does.
A common straw man response from EV fanatics is to infer the rumblers all only accept things as they are, or were. This is factually incorrect.
Rather it’s having an alternative opinion and suggestions pitched to a frankly infant technology that is stubbornly blasting on a single minded trajectory led by company that at its core debases the very essence of what has made car driving emotive. People don’t like being told what to feel. Rather we hope they listen and think laterally.
You have a very eloquent way of debating your viewpoint, which is refreshing to see rather than the usual "omg electric cars are sEqually, being individuals if you’re not someone (genuinely no criticism) who ever found much of an emotive response to those inputs then most likely my points would not ring. But for an awful lot of people it did and does.
A common straw man response from EV fanatics is to infer the rumblers all only accept things as they are, or were. This is factually incorrect.
Rather it’s having an alternative opinion and suggestions pitched to a frankly infant technology that is stubbornly blasting on a single minded trajectory led by company that at its core debases the very essence of what has made car driving emotive. People don’t like being told what to feel. Rather we hope they listen and think laterally.
t" or "lol petrol is 4 dinosaurs".Personally, I prefer old-fashioned petrol, but I'm also very interested to see where new forays into electric vehicles take us. Like it or not, the paradigm is slowly shifting, what with diesel cars being slowly put out to pasture, infrastructure for EVs becoming more mainstream/mandatory (delete as appropriate), and the influx of hybrids, leading to what I assume will be fully-electric options in the near future.
I fully appreciate and agree that there's nothing as evisceral as the "analogue" experience you get from a petrol-powered sports car - the bark on start-up, the backfire on overrun, even the pause in performance as it changes gear. As petrolheads, there's a certain love we have for the smell of petrol, hot oil, brakes, tyres, all mixed together on a lovely day of driving. As fun as it is to drive fast in an electric car, there's something missing. It'd be like going to watch Pink Floyd in concert, but the curtain never opens. Sure, you get the experience and part of the occasion, but there's something missing.
Personally, as we are now in 2018 I think electric cars have their time and place. They do what they do incredibly well, but are still lacking that little something to really set them up as alternatives for your average TVR/Lotus/Caterham driver. I'd love to see an EV version of that mad Carver from the early 2000s, the one that leans over etc. Someone with a bit of money in their pocket could make quite a following out of modernising a vehicle like that.
And of course, in the same way Nova enthusiasts have dwindled away and Fiesta enthusiasts are still going strong, generational changes have an impact too. There have been conversations on here about how some buyers now just look at internet connectivity, spotify, bluetooth connections etc as the key purchase point. They couldn't tell you what engine size, what trim level, perhaps even what bloody make of car they've bought - as times change, interests change.
Current mass market ev's are targeting your average mass market segments. Making better more efficient transport. Doesn't mean every EV will be dull.
https://youtu.be/racUCpe86uA
https://youtu.be/racUCpe86uA
Second Best said:
And of course, in the same way Nova enthusiasts have dwindled away and Fiesta enthusiasts are still going strong, generational changes have an impact too. There have been conversations on here about how some buyers now just look at internet connectivity, spotify, bluetooth connections etc as the key purchase point. They couldn't tell you what engine size, what trim level, perhaps even what bloody make of car they've bought - as times change, interests change.
Ah thanks 
Everything you said resonates with me. Interesting regarding the focus on devices, connectivity and life through social media. Very true.
Connectivity and social media life is a whole other topic
. I personally feel this is a questionable direction. I also believe some chickens will come home to roost by way of problems for us as beings as a result, but in true human fashion far down the line when it’s all a bit too late. We’ll socially scrabble about trying to patch it up in our usual ineffective way.We’re cracking as a species at advancing, in directions. We love to go forward, for going forward’s sake. We’re not so marvellous at questioning the validity, reasoning or wisdom of our various directions. And even less marvellous at taking steps back to find an alternative path!
But, I’m not old, but not that young- so I hope there’s enough folk like me that we don’t get completely culturally drowned out before I pop my clogs
.Edited by Buggyjam on Friday 15th June 00:32
These EV threads always seem to descend into the same tired arguments where the EV evangelists denounce the petrol heads as luddites and the petrol heads moan that all EVs are st and they'll have to prise their ignition keys from their cold, dead hands.
I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs. I don't think anybody is suggesting that all cars need to be EVs.
t and they'll have to prise their ignition keys from their cold, dead hands. I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs. I don't think anybody is suggesting that all cars need to be EVs.
RobDickinson said:
Current mass market ev's are targeting your average mass market segments. Making better more efficient transport. Doesn't mean every EV will be dull.
https://youtu.be/racUCpe86uA
There aren't many exciting ones to be fair?https://youtu.be/racUCpe86uA
unpc said:
These EV threads always seem to descend into the same tired arguments where the EV evangelists denounce the petrol heads as luddites and the petrol heads moan that all EVs are st and they'll have to prise their ignition keys from their cold, dead hands.
I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs. I don't think anybody is suggesting that all cars need to be EVs.
To be fair my post above yours when I mentioned popping my clogs wasn’t about EVS, just an aside we got talking about online stuff.t and they'll have to prise their ignition keys from their cold, dead hands. I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs. I don't think anybody is suggesting that all cars need to be EVs.
And if you read certainly I’ve pointed out that it isn’t as digital as saying carte Blanche “EVs are s
t”. unpc said:
...
I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs.
I agree and the sooner we take them up voluntarily the less likely we'll be forced into them. EV for commuting, ICE for the weekend and the track. Happy days. The argument, on this thread at least, is that EV's are so fast in a straight line they must be fun. I'd say, like most modern ICE cars, they are so heavy and computer assisted they face a very uphill battle to ever be fun... EV for the commute, 90's ICE for the weekend I'm a petrol head as much as the next man but even I can see that 90+% of cars would be so much better as EVs.
LooneyTunes said:
fblm said:
Talksteer said:
Tesla will be the iPhone of electric cars, it's first to market and has a distinctive brand, all other car manufacturers electric vehicles will end up being the Android phones.
Or it could be Nokia or Blackberry... such analogies are entirely pointlessIt must really be worrying Tesla owners that their driveways will prove incompatible with cars from other manufacturers.
With the competition limbering up, I am curious to see whether Tesla repeat their very targeted sales efforts of last year, when they really seemed to be working hard to get in front of people they thought might be interested
The Model 3 is currently the top selling car in its size/price range in the US by some margin as is the Model S.
My point is that even if others such as Jaguar and VW close the gap on the performance front there is no reason to think that Tesla which has now been selling cars for 10 years won't continue to sell cars competitively.
Secondly while Tesla has been having scaling problems nobody else has a gigafactory ready to go which will limit the volumes they can produce their electric cars irrespective of capabilities or demand.
Finally when Tesla crack producing 10,000 Model 3's a week at the average sale price of around $59,000 that puts Tesla's revenue in 2018-2019 somewhere north of $40 billion.
Given that current incumbents have lots of legacy costs and projects it probably means that none of them have any scale advantages over Tesla anymore.
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