RE: Jaguar Electric Powerboat: Time For Tea
Discussion
Equus said:
Was the owner your boyfriend?
Pathetic. I know very little about kilo speed records, nor do I care but it was still obvious your claim of 205 was wrong given how fast 'stock' pleasure cats are now let alone race boats. Drag boats, aero engines, but, but, but wibble. You were wrong, grow up, move on.fblm said:
I know very little about kilo speed records, nor do I care
It shows. You're clearly in the wrong place, then, since that's what this thread is about.You might as well be contributing to a topic about the Nurburgring lap record by quoting current F1 times at Monaco.
Yes, I was wrong. I haven't been involved in water speed record breaking since the 1980's. I was aware of Russ Wicks' 205mph increase on Roy Duby's long-standing record (200mph, back in 1962), but I'd obviously missed the news of the latest increase. To be fair, even Google hasn't heard about it - it still lists Wicks as the record holder. It's only when you check the UIM record list that you discover different.
Stock pleasure cats have got nothing to do with it: no 'stock pleasure cat' (or any other cat) has ever held the record. The official prop-driven record has been (and continues to be) held by an Unlimited class, aero engined three point hydro, since the 1930's.
SoQ is nothing... it's neither fish nor fowl - neither a record breaker nor the fastest in terms of peak speed, so I have no idea what you think its relevance to this thread might be.
Edited by Equus on Monday 18th June 16:15
Equus said:
Stock pleasure cats have got nothing to do with it
Of course they do you dim wit. If you tell us the lap record at Spa is 2:30; that doesn't sound sound right if a stock road legal car can do it in 2:38 does it? You dont have to know anything about lap records to know a race car has almost certainly done it more than 8 seconds faster. Similarly if you can walk into a fast boat dealer in the US and buy a cat off the rack that'll take you and half a dozen friends to the best part of 200 with the cooler filled and the stereo cranked up for a 100 mile round trip it's obvious the world record probably isn't 205. Or it would be if you're not an angry old adenoidal troll. You're arguing about a point you've already conceded FFS! fblm said:
Of course they do you dim wit. If you tell us the lap record at Spa is 2:30; that doesn't sound sound right if a stock road legal car can do it in 2:38 does it?
But that's not what you're trying to argue.Before calling someone a dimwit, you should take stock of the level of intelligence required to recognise the difference between a peak speed and a two way average over a distance.
If SoQ, or any other catamaran, had managed 200+mph over a 2-way measured mile or kilo, you might have a point.
As it is, to humour you by extending your rather feeble analogy, you're trying to argue that a lap record of 135mph 'doesn't sound right' not because a stock car can do a faster lap, but because a Bentley can do 200mph, peak. As someone who as been involved at the sharp end, I can tell you that there is a BIG difference between squirting up to a momentary peak speed, and making things fall into place such that you can get anywhere close to that speed as a two-way average over a distance.
I suppose there is some possibility that SoQ might be able to set a two way average comparable to the current record, but it hasn't - and numerous other boats (both Unlimited Hydros and drag boats) have bettered its published peak speed.
Nobody (except you, apparently) is interested in 'coulda, woulda, shoulda'.
Equus said:
As someone who as been involved at the sharp end...
Which is the sharp end of a clip board? Funny how you're an expert and when a lay person points out your obvious mistake you tell them they're wrong, realise you're completely wrong then call them gay and try rubbishing their logic. Jog on angry old troll.fblm said:
...when a lay person points out your obvious mistake you tell them they're wrong
You didn't point out an obvious mistake, sweety - I pointed out myself that one unlimited hydroplane has set a faster record than another unlimited hydroplane that I thought still held the record.Nothing to do with offshore catamarans one way or the other.
Equus said:
You didn't point out an obvious mistake, sweety - I pointed out myself that one unlimited hydroplane has set a faster record than another unlimited hydroplane that I thought still held the record.
Nothing to do with offshore catamarans one way or the other.
You rather grandly suggested that only “one pass wonder” machines (drag boats, unlimited hydros) would get over 220mph. I, and fblm, merely suggested that thinking was outdated and pointed at one example to demonstrate the point, SoQ. Nothing to do with offshore catamarans one way or the other.
At which point you have argued incessantly that this has no relevance to boats doing high speed running as it doesn’t hold a record. And done it with extremely bad grace, might I add.
Edited by WTFWT on Monday 18th June 18:22
Equus said:
You didn't point out an obvious mistake, sweety - I pointed out myself....
After you were told 205 didn't sound right you assured me it was then edited your post to admit it was 220, like I guessed. Are you ill? Also, asking after my boyfriend then calling me sweety is kinda creepy, pack it in you weirdo.
WTFWT said:
Ok. Maybe I misunderstood.
So you accept boats other than one-pass-wonders can comfortably exceed 220mph. What are you disagreeing with?
I am disagreeing with the suggestion that boats like SoQ and Miss Geiko make any sort of relevant benchmark for official immersed propeller speed recordsSo you accept boats other than one-pass-wonders can comfortably exceed 220mph. What are you disagreeing with?
For all the bleating, they hold no records, they have yet to prove capable of doing so, and therefore they have yet to prove that the game has moved forward significantly since the turn of the millennium.
The 205mph Unlimited Immersed Propeller record that I knew about (Miss Freei ) was set in 2000. The 220mph one I didn't know about (Miss Budweiser) was set in 2004.
SoQ wasn't built until 2014, and has yet to prove capable of maintaining a sustained speed higher than either. Yes, yes, I know... coulda, woulda, shoulda... but the fact that she hasn't should tell you something: I'm damned sure that it wasn't because Sheikh Hassan bin Jabor Al-Thani couln't afford to pay for the timekeepers.
As I have said repeatedly, there's a big difference between a quick squirt to a peak speed, and a sustained two-way average.
Also bear in mind that the current record holders aren't true Unlimiteds: they are built to 'H1 Unlimited' APBA circuit racing rules, which among many other things limit their power output to circa 3000 shaft horsepower. In other words they have so far proved faster than SoQ with one hand tied behind their back.
I will start taking catamarans like SoQ seriously, when they set an official record that's higher than the 3-point Hydroplanes that have held it since 1939.
Ditto drag boats. The builder of one of the fastest of those, Problem Child (263mph peak), has been talking about building a 4-point outrigger hydroplane for the straightaway record for some time. If he gets round to it, there's every chance it will make both SoQ and Miss Budweiser look very lame indeed.
Until then... coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Equus said:
WTFWT said:
Ok. Maybe I misunderstood.
So you accept boats other than one-pass-wonders can comfortably exceed 220mph. What are you disagreeing with?
I am disagreeing with the suggestion that boats like SoQ and Miss Geiko make any sort of relevant benchmark for official immersed propeller speed recordsSo you accept boats other than one-pass-wonders can comfortably exceed 220mph. What are you disagreeing with?
For all the bleating, they hold no records, they have yet to prove capable of doing so, and therefore they have yet to prove that the game has moved forward significantly since the turn of the millennium.
The 205mph Unlimited Immersed Propeller record that I knew about (Miss Freei ) was set in 2000. The 220mph one I didn't know about (Miss Budweiser) was set in 2004.
SoQ wasn't built until 2014, and has yet to prove capable of maintaining a sustained speed higher than either. Yes, yes, I know... coulda, woulda, shoulda... but the fact that she hasn't should tell you something: I'm damned sure that it wasn't because Sheikh Hassan bin Jabor Al-Thani couln't afford to pay for the timekeepers.
As I have said repeatedly, there's a big difference between a quick squirt to a peak speed, and a sustained two-way average.
Also bear in mind that the current record holders aren't true Unlimiteds: they are built to 'H1 Unlimited' APBA circuit racing rules, which among many other things limit their power output to circa 3000 shaft horsepower. In other words they have so far proved faster than SoQ with one hand tied behind their back.
I will start taking catamarans like SoQ seriously, when they set an official record that's higher than the 3-point Hydroplanes that have held it since 1939.
Ditto drag boats. The builder of one of the fastest of those, Problem Child (263mph peak), has been talking about building a 4-point outrigger hydroplane for the straightaway record for some time. If he gets round to it, there's every chance it will make both SoQ and Miss Budweiser look very lame indeed.
Until then... coulda, woulda, shoulda.
I thought you were claiming that a 55 foot composite cat with 6,000hp (or anything else for that matter) couldn’t hit those speeds.
WTFWT said:
I thought you were claiming that a 55 foot composite cat with 6,000hp (or anything else for that matter) couldn’t hit those speeds.
Sure, it can hit those speeds. Same as an 8,000 horsepower, 22 foot 4-point drag boat can (not surprisingly) peak quite a bit quicker still.Consistently maintaining such speeds for the two-way average required to set an official record is a very different matter though (albeit for different reasons between the bigger and smaller boats).
And as fblm seems incapable of understanding, a 244mph peak ≠ a 244mph average, by any stretch of the imagination.
Equus said:
And as fblm seems incapable of understanding, a 244mph peak ? a 244mph average, by any stretch of the imagination.
Let's back up a little bit here you numptie...fblm said:
Equus said:
The propeller driven water speed record stands at 205mph...
This doesn't sound right at all. There are several records; top speed after 1/4 mile from standstill iirc is 260 ish. Kilo record (sustained speed) is slower 220ish? There must be half a dozen pleasure boats (luxury offshore cats not race or record boats) on the US poker run scene that can run 200. ...fblm said:
Frankly given your claimed expertise I'm surprised it wasn't obvious to you that if 50ft offshore hulls are running well in excess of 200mph on a lake then the kilo record open to everything including hydroplanes was going to be considerably higher than 205, which it is.
50' offshore hulls weren't running in well in excess of 200mph when the current immersed propeller record was set, Sweetypie, and wouldn't do do for another decade, so you're trying to draw a correlation that simply isn't there.You also seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that if a 50' offshore hull can do >200mph (peak) then an Unlimited Hydro must automatically be much faster.
'Unlimited' (H1-class) hydros are not small boats in themselves - they have minimum length (28', from memory) and weight (~3,000kg) limits, and are at the same time restricted to about half of SoQ's power. The simple fact is that nobody has built a truly unlimited prop driven hydroplane specifically for the record since the 1950's, because nobody cares enough to do so.
Unlimited hydros need to be as robustly built as the supposedly 'offshore' boats because of the speeds they routinely achieve on moderately rough water. They race on the Great Lakes, not the local duckpond. Try to run SoQ at anywhere close to 200mph in conditions as rough as some Hydro races - much less genuine offshore conditions - and you'd be left with a raft of carbon fibre fragments and two dead crew.
Drunk people on decent rental jetskis can get within 15 mph of this.
The camera shot of the pilot getting 'in the zone' beforehand is pathetic. I'm sure his pulse hardly went above resting.
This was not exciting, or dangerous. Or even impressive.
Must try harder. Maybe strap one of these to each foot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlePEd69gDw
The camera shot of the pilot getting 'in the zone' beforehand is pathetic. I'm sure his pulse hardly went above resting.
This was not exciting, or dangerous. Or even impressive.
Must try harder. Maybe strap one of these to each foot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlePEd69gDw
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