Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 13]

[SimonTheSailor]

A lot of talk of E39 Tourings recently. What's the diesel version like ? Seen some 2.5 and 3.0 version up for sale and like the idea.

I remember years ago reading reviews of the Omega and the only bad reviews were of the diesel version which I believe was the 2.5 BMW engine ?

[Jimmy Recard]

SimonTheSailor said:

A lot of talk of E39 Tourings recently. What's the diesel version like ? Seen some 2.5 and 3.0 version up for sale and like the idea.

I remember years ago reading reviews of the Omega and the only bad reviews were of the diesel version which I believe was the 2.5 BMW engine ?

I think it’s the E34 525td engine rather than the E39 525d though
But yeah, it’s probably the worst engine in the range. Less reliable, thirstier and no more powerful than the Vauxhall 2.2 four cylinder diesel in the Omega

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Chromegrill said:

Painful even thinking about this such is the level of lust generated:



https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I know this has already attracted significant comment, but that is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I want it. A lot.

[0a]

I have been looking at these recently: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Any thoughts?

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Chaps - winter wheels and tyres question.

I have to have winter tyres (snowflake marked) for the Lexus. What's the best way to do it and from where to buy? Would cheap steelies with winters on be more sensible than having them changed on the current alloys? I'd ideally like to order asap for delivery within a week so I can take them back out to Lux with me.

These are the current wheels and size; should winters be exactly the same?



Any thoughts or advice?

[Bonefish Blues]

I have a local guy who fits for a tenner a corner so I've never bothered with a second set of wheels.

Camskill are who I've been ordering from recently.

[ElectricPics]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Chaps - winter wheels and tyres question.

I have to have winter tyres (snowflake marked) for the Lexus. What's the best way to do it and from where to buy? Would cheap steelies with winters on be more sensible than having them changed on the current alloys? I'd ideally like to order asap for delivery within a week so I can take them back out to Lux with me.

These are the current wheels and size; should winters be exactly the same?



Any thoughts or advice?

How about a set of Michelin Cross Climates - snowflake marked - at the same size on your alloys, then you wouldn't need to swap them back again for the Summer.

[pitchfork]

SimonTheSailor said:

A lot of talk of E39 Tourings recently. What's the diesel version like ? Seen some 2.5 and 3.0 version up for sale and like the idea.

I have the 3 litre auto: anything specific you wish to know?

Briefly, if you do the miles, it's all the engine you need; it's quick, frugal and quiet inside (from the outside, it sounds like a diesel!). In terms of handling, you know there's big lump up front, so it's not the quickest to turn in, but that's not really what its built for, and I've never driven the petrol so can't compare.

Mine's on 100k miles: it needs a main thermostat, new vac pipes and the MAF is throwing up errors (it possibly just needs cleaning) and, currently, it's getting about 170 miles on £29.97's worth of fuel with 65/35 motorway/non-rush-hour urban driving. 80 on the clock (77 sat-nav) shows just over 2k rpm.

As for the rest of the car, it's great: it never feels too big; the boot area is well-designed and I've found the opening hatch (glass bit) to be extremely useful. The self-levelling suspension works very well.

[SimonTheSailor]

Thanks. I was really questioning reliability issues with them. I've heard about suspension needing rebuilds after a while. Didn't realise they had air suspension on the rears. Is the 3.0 litre better than the 2.5 ?

[TVR Sagaris]

0a said:

I have been looking at these recently: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Any thoughts?

No helpful comments but I have also been looking at these a lot lately (and have admired that exact car on AutoTrader).

The thing that always comes up in discussion is the dreaded timing chain rattle which, depending on the severity, usually means the tensioners need replacing. That is a big, expensive job.

Otherwise I have an idealistic view that it is - in comparison to the other S4s, especially the B5 - surely all fairly uncomplicated: just a big, naturally aspirated V8 with proper 4WD and a manual gearbox. I suspect that is a naive view and there are some real horror stories from owners of the S6s from the same period.

Then again, it's a relatively modern super estate for under £6k. What more could you want?

[0a]

I appear to be searching for manual cars with a reasonable engine at the moment:

Alfa 166 3.0 Super: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...





Subaru Legacy 3.0 R spec B: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...



A big cheap fish. Bet it's comfy though, and reasonable miles for under £2k. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...




And lastly, not barges, but I rather like these two 3.0 litre BMWs. Which would you have?

Z3: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...



Z4: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...



Z3 for me, but the Z4 is in a fantastic colour.

[tobinen]

0a said:

Z3 for me, but the Z4 is in a fantastic colour.

Exactly my thoughts. I think Z3s are ageing very well, though I like the Z4 shape as well.

[0a]

tobinen said:

0a said:

Z3 for me, but the Z4 is in a fantastic colour.

Exactly my thoughts. I think Z3s are ageing very well, though I like the Z4 shape as well.

Agreed. In this spec the Z3 looks great, particularly from the rear. I am appreciating the Z4s more and more though. I think the 3.0 is a bit of a sweet spot - the M version of the Z4 seems a little unnecessary, whereas the 3.0 is a great engine in the real world.

What a shame that the era of BMW straight 6s being the standard is over!

[Lowtimer]

SimonTheSailor said:

Thanks. I was really questioning reliability issues with them. I've heard about suspension needing rebuilds after a while. Didn't realise they had air suspension on the rears. Is the 3.0 litre better than the 2.5 ?

All UK market E39 Tourings have air rear suspension. The air bags are relatively easy and inexpensive to replace and if you value reliability then they are best considered as "lifed" items and replaced every five years or so if you want to eliminate 99% of the risk of one subsiding in service.

All E39s are now of an age where they need suspension rebuilds unless they have had one done properly within the last few years. This does not mean just bolting on a new set of dampers and a wipe over with an oily rag: there's a lot more to it than that. All the bushes need doing. In particular, Tourings always need the rear subframe bushes replaced. These are big chaps and dropping the rear subframe to fit them is not an amateur job.

I've had both the 2.5 525D auto and 3.0 530D auto in the era when they were still in production and put about 100K on each. These were both facelift cars with different capacity versions of the M57 engine. Being effectively the same engine they feel and sound very similar, just a little more push with the 530D. Neither is particularly economical or powerful compared to modern diesels, though the 530D will hang with something like a modern 320D, so that's not too bad. Even a 525D is certainly something that keeps up with most of the traffic though. A 530D is better simply in terms of being a bit quicker for the same real-world fuel consumption, and having slightly more restful overall gearing. The engine itself is basically the same apart from the extra capacity (which is only 429cc extra: the 530D is actually a 2.9 litre car).

If you must have a diesel get a facelift car. The pre-facelift 530D had an earlier and less good version of the 2.9 litre M57, but the pre-facelift 2.5 litre car had a completely different six cylinder engine, the much lower powered M51, in one of two states of tune, with or without an intercooler. These carried over from the E34 and were okay for their time but are well past it now. The 2.5 litre pre-facelift diesel is not badged as a 525D, it is either a lo-po 525td or and sllightly brisker 525tds. Both of them are likely to prove no more economical on a decent run than a facelift 530i petrol car in good nick.

On my 525D and 530D I used to get anything between 35-39 mpg over the course of a full tank, based on a 100 mile daily motorway commute at very legal speeds, combined with regular 200 mile late-night weekend motorway / A1 journeys at somewhat higher speeds. But by the standards of turn-of-the-century diesels they were smooth and refined.

What else... er... Manual diesels are *a lot* more economical than auto diesels. Like, about 5 mpg more economical. Manual 525Ds are more common than manual 530Ds. And there was a four-pot 520D, but it was not imported into the UK.

I wouldn't buy a diesel E39 today: I'd get a petrol one every time (and have). Every mile in my 530i makes me appreciate the pleasure of driving behind such a lovely engine, and that never happened in the diesels. Plus, it's way, way lighter and you really notice that in the corners.

Edited by Lowtimer on Saturday 25th August 15:45

[gowmonster]

Scooobydont said:

layercake said:

Guys, i wanted to know what you are paying to insure a car which can't be covered by a classic car policy, obviously 2nd car the insurers won;t let you use your NCD if it is being used on another

for example i have been quoted the thick end of 500 for a e39 full comp

try these guys, highly recommeneded in the classic VW world:

https://www.rhspecialistinsurance.co.uk/

I had a pretty modified 1972 beetle with all mods declared and 3000 mile limit. The last price I paid before I sold the car was £109 fully comp! It was a second car also and had no NCD.

Gratutitous pic (apologies to spoil the barge thread!):

That Beetle looks very familiar!

[SimonTheSailor]

Lowtimer said:

Lots of informative BMW stuff...……….

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. I am coming around to think that maybe the petrol version is a better bet, i'm sure I would prefer it too and quickly get bored of the diesel version.

[Prinny]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Chaps - winter wheels and tyres question.

I have to have winter tyres (snowflake marked) for the Lexus. What's the best way to do it and from where to buy? Would cheap steelies with winters on be more sensible than having them changed on the current alloys? I'd ideally like to order asap for delivery within a week so I can take them back out to Lux with me.

These are the current wheels and size; should winters be exactly the same?



Any thoughts or advice?

If you can handle a bit of Deutsch, buy a set there while out in Lux? As all* the cars there will swap over for winter running anyway, they’re geared up for it. Tyre places will source you a set (or ebay.de), and store your summer wheels for a nominal fee (or bring them back in the car). Likely to be much better availability of tyres too as the market demands them.
I use Michelin Alpin PA4 on both the 7series & the M6, with no issues - no-one expects big, heavy, torque laden rwd cars to be capable in the snow, but the 7 was impeccable in the snow, happily braving un-gritted, 7”+ pennine hills (the amount of snow, not the hill size) with nary a concern, and really, really good fun in a slow-motion drifting sort of way (the long wheelbase means it all happens so slowly) when car parks permit.

I would search for a 2nd set of alloys on ebay/gumtree/lexus breaker, and take them over to the continent if it were me, exact same size. With a 55 section tyre, you’re unlikely to bash wheels on a kerb unless things really go wrong, so I wouldn’t try to search for steel rims too hard, and then getting the tyres over there.

[EarlOfHazard]

TVR Sagaris said:

0a said:

I have been looking at these recently: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Any thoughts?

No helpful comments but I have also been looking at these a lot lately (and have admired that exact car on AutoTrader).

The thing that always comes up in discussion is the dreaded timing chain rattle which, depending on the severity, usually means the tensioners need replacing. That is a big, expensive job.

Otherwise I have an idealistic view that it is - in comparison to the other S4s, especially the B5 - surely all fairly uncomplicated: just a big, naturally aspirated V8 with proper 4WD and a manual gearbox. I suspect that is a naive view and there are some real horror stories from owners of the S6s from the same period.

Then again, it's a relatively modern super estate for under £6k. What more could you want?

The timing chain is on the back of the engine, thus it's an engine out job.
The problem stems from Audi's 'infinite' wisdom to use plastic cam tensioners. Over the years, the heat cycles of the engine turns the plastic brittle, they crack, and tension is lost. Oh dear.
When changing the chains, you upgrade to the metal tensioner guides from the RS4.

[Caruso]

I remember being very tempted by a 1990s Maserati Quattroporte and the thing that held me back was that one of these has 9/10ths of the capabilities at a 1/4 of the price.

0a said:

I appear to be searching for manual cars with a reasonable engine at the moment:

Alfa 166 3.0 Super: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[url]|https://thumbsnap..

[SimonTheSailor]

How about a bit of brown with er.........brown.

https://m.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1028595

Edited by SimonTheSailor on Saturday 25th August 18:43