Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 13]

[TVR-Stu]

I get the feeling that interior materials are always going to be a matter of opinion, and taste for that matter and the most important thing for me as a second hand/barge buyer is how well it has been looked after.
In the case of an old Mercedes in my limited experience I would rather have leather only if the previous owners have looked after it. If they have all been lazy so and so's then I would prefer the first owner to have gone with the MBtex as it appears to require little or no maintenance.

[Triumph Man]

Fermit and Sarah said:

SpeckledJim said:

Fermit and Sarah said:

SpeckledJim said:

Until you spend an actual fortune on interior specialness, what you see and sit on is plastic in pretty much every case.

Underneath 4 layers of artificialness there's a basic substrate layer that used to be on a bovine Bill of Materials, but you can't literally see or touch it.

It's the crappy bit that's left once the nice leather has been skimmed off the top, so whilst, yes, technically it's leather underneath the plastic, in any meaningful sense, it's not. the extracted leathery texture is literally re-applied with a roller.

MB tex and modern pleather are essentially the same stuff, albeit pleather having a substrate of st bull and a veneer of extra modern bullst.

I can go in to vast detail about this one, but only shall if anyone cares two hoots, but....

In anything but dyed leather the grain pattern is artificially embossed onto the leather in the pigment top coat.

Most car leather is leather, but bonded leather is often used on bits you don't touch. It is a crap product, yes, I'm looking at you BMW, Merc et all...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonded_leather

Leather isn't leather until dye or pigment is applied, until that point it is essentially a hide. A good piece to explain -
http://lttleathercare.com/2016/04/22/auto-leather-...

Teach away, please!

Bonded leather is the stupidest stupid ever. The flexible answer to MDF.

It is a dreadful product, it shouldn't be allowed to use the word 'leather' in the description, as it only needs to contain 25% leather content. It is to leather what chicken McNuggets are to meat. It is leather scraps held together with PU. It breaks down in as little as 4 years, and is unrepairable. It's a disgrace that premium manufacturers accept it in their cars.

As per the LTT article (they are a trusted source) the more that is done, the cheaper the product. Imperfect hides (bites, scars - barbed wire, stretch marks) cost less, as they require more correcting, and more pigment to cover their sins. This makes the leather less soft, and less luxurious. Think like diamonds, fewer imperfections cost you more.

If you're unsure if your leather is leather press it with a finger, real leather shall show 'peach skin' type wrinkle lines, the grain.

Useful to learn about leather, thank you! I've got a E39 5 series, with comfort seats. On the build sheet it's noted as "standard Leder" what type of leather (if leather at all!) do you think that would be?

[Fermit and Sarah]

Triumph Man said:

Fermit and Sarah said:

SpeckledJim said:

Fermit and Sarah said:

SpeckledJim said:

Until you spend an actual fortune on interior specialness, what you see and sit on is plastic in pretty much every case.

Underneath 4 layers of artificialness there's a basic substrate layer that used to be on a bovine Bill of Materials, but you can't literally see or touch it.

It's the crappy bit that's left once the nice leather has been skimmed off the top, so whilst, yes, technically it's leather underneath the plastic, in any meaningful sense, it's not. the extracted leathery texture is literally re-applied with a roller.

MB tex and modern pleather are essentially the same stuff, albeit pleather having a substrate of st bull and a veneer of extra modern bullst.

I can go in to vast detail about this one, but only shall if anyone cares two hoots, but....

In anything but dyed leather the grain pattern is artificially embossed onto the leather in the pigment top coat.

Most car leather is leather, but bonded leather is often used on bits you don't touch. It is a crap product, yes, I'm looking at you BMW, Merc et all...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonded_leather

Leather isn't leather until dye or pigment is applied, until that point it is essentially a hide. A good piece to explain -
http://lttleathercare.com/2016/04/22/auto-leather-...

Teach away, please!

Bonded leather is the stupidest stupid ever. The flexible answer to MDF.

It is a dreadful product, it shouldn't be allowed to use the word 'leather' in the description, as it only needs to contain 25% leather content. It is to leather what chicken McNuggets are to meat. It is leather scraps held together with PU. It breaks down in as little as 4 years, and is unrepairable. It's a disgrace that premium manufacturers accept it in their cars.

As per the LTT article (they are a trusted source) the more that is done, the cheaper the product. Imperfect hides (bites, scars - barbed wire, stretch marks) cost less, as they require more correcting, and more pigment to cover their sins. This makes the leather less soft, and less luxurious. Think like diamonds, fewer imperfections cost you more.

If you're unsure if your leather is leather press it with a finger, real leather shall show 'peach skin' type wrinkle lines, the grain.

Useful to learn about leather, thank you! I've got a E39 5 series, with comfort seats. On the build sheet it's noted as "standard Leder" what type of leather (if leather at all!) do you think that would be?

I'm fairly sure (90%?) that it shall simply be pigment coated leather, as the E39 was in production before Bonded Leather was really widely used.

[louiebaby]

dme123 said:

louiebaby said:

Thanks for the spot, it's going on the list of possibilities to discuss with the wife.

Mileage doesn't concern overly. My risk tolerance is tricky to gauge, but I don't think any of us on here conform to "Normal"...

That 3.2 SI6 is a very interesting engine with some crafty packaging of the ancilliaries; it uses a Rear End Auxilliary Drive (READ) rather than Front End Auxiliary Drive (FEAD) so the alternator and so on are located at and driven from the gearbox end of the engine. This READ unit is driven from the cam chain.

https://www.scottsautomotivemd.com/volvo-rear-end-...

I would be slightly concerned about finding someone with the skills/experience/wherewithall to work on one as both the 3.2 and T6 variants are rare in the UK and most 'mechanics' are bloody useless. You'll likely find a lot more advice on maintaining and repairing one on US forums as it was the base engine for many proper Volvos there for a decade.

Bookmarked for future perusal.

[tobinen]

My CL has nappa leather (according to the option), and yes it's lovely, but it's not wearing very well and there is a small hole in the base cover of each front seat through buttock friction. You wouldn't necessarily notice but they are there. I dread to think how much that would cost to put right.

[alec.e]

The leather in my Jag Super V8 is Nappa, yes you can tell the difference, lovely to the touch.
Whereas, the standard leather in the BMW is not nearly as nice.
Worse still, is the leather in my mums 2012 A6, feels like plastic...

[Phil Dicky]

Krikkit said:

forzaminardi said:

dme123 said:

I'm going to be a 15 minute drive away from this XJ8 in full codger spec and colour scheme on Wednesday

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-53-Jaguar-XJ8-4-2-...



Ad doesn't give much detail but does give me confidence. What could possibly go wrong with a 15 year old leggy old Jag?

Good garage that one. Confidence-inspiring.

I reckon that's a good purchase, very sensible pricing, warranty and fresh ticket all included. History looks solid enough.

All it needs is a mesh grille and you're away!

Garage has been there for ever, so another thumbs up from me

[Rubins4]

Johnny Raydome said:

Thanks to everyone for the positive comments re: Bornite 190E.

It's a strange anti-climax (almost) but, you know when you buy another used car and you can compile a list of things to do? You know, new wiper blades, oil change, get at the paintwork, spruce up the engine bay?
With the 190E, it's pretty much all been done already. Nothing really needs changed or seen to.
It's such a well-sorted car, a real credit to the previous owner(s).

Maybe it needs some 21" rims, and being "stanced?"

Good God, the thought.

Perhaps I can step in here...

I've just picked up my first Merc, a 190 LE which I believe is known to PH. Collected on Sunday and I love it already. Lovely to waft about in (note: waft with a small "w").

The plan is to use it predominantly as the first car until Christmas to get an idea of what needs doing, then get it in the shed for some work for the following few months then get it out again for the Spring. When the company appliance is returned the Benz will become my daily.

To my utter shame I don't have a photo to hand, let alone a forecourt photo (!) but I'll get something up in time, perhaps next to my friends zender kitted black 190 on AMG Monoblocs

Now do i offer updates here or start a new thread?

[Stedman]

Phil Dicky said:

Krikkit said:

forzaminardi said:

dme123 said:

I'm going to be a 15 minute drive away from this XJ8 in full codger spec and colour scheme on Wednesday

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-53-Jaguar-XJ8-4-2-...



Ad doesn't give much detail but does give me confidence. What could possibly go wrong with a 15 year old leggy old Jag?

Good garage that one. Confidence-inspiring.

I reckon that's a good purchase, very sensible pricing, warranty and fresh ticket all included. History looks solid enough.

All it needs is a mesh grille and you're away!

Garage has been there for ever, so another thumbs up from me

I didn't think the Alpine system was available without the touch screen /beard

[SpeckledJim]

Both!

[Lowtimer]

Triumph Man said:

Useful to learn about leather, thank you! I've got a E39 5 series, with comfort seats. On the build sheet it's noted as "standard Leder" what type of leather (if leather at all!) do you think that would be?

Bad news, I'm afraid
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/33200-bmw-leather-or...

[SpeckledJim]

That's an accidental interjection on my part - I meant to say 'Both!' to the question about 190e on this thread and it's own thread.


But I love getting the right answer completely by accident, to a question I honestly didn't know the answer to...

[Marty Funkhouser]

Salmonofdoubt said:

Anyone feeling brave? £1695 CL500!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

|https://thumbsnap.com/3B1DFfGJ[/url]

Surely worth more in parts??

[GhostWKD]

Salmonofdoubt said:

Anyone feeling brave? £1695 CL500!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

{CL500 Pic as above}

Edit: Scrap that post, link does work, PH formatting seems to have messed about with it...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Like the poster before me has stated surely this one would be worth it even if just in parts?

Edited by GhostWKD on Tuesday 13th November 16:22

[Fermit and Sarah]

tobinen said:

My CL has nappa leather (according to the option), and yes it's lovely, but it's not wearing very well and there is a small hole in the base cover of each front seat through buttock friction. You wouldn't necessarily notice but they are there. I dread to think how much that would cost to put right.

Search leather trimmer 'my area', it may not be as much as you think.

[ian316]

GhostWKD said:

Salmonofdoubt said:

Anyone feeling brave? £1695 CL500!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

{CL500 Pic as above}

Edit: Scrap that post, link does work, PH formatting seems to have messed about with it...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Like the poster before me has stated surely this one would be worth it even if just in parts?

Edited by GhostWKD on Tuesday 13th November 16:22

I was tempted to have a look at that last sunday, but the wife had other plans about what I was doing the last 3 years mot history isn't bad either

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Fermit and Sarah said:

Search...trimmer 'my area'.

Then delete browsing history.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

For the discerning 129 SL owners, especially if you're after a gift-to-self, have you seen this:

nav p said:

Having just sold my R129 I have still in my garage the correct factory hard top shuttle

This is the one that makes removing top a person job,looks like an engine hoist,rolls under the car.The car can also be driven forward over it with the hard top on, it also allows the hard top to be stored whilst hanging, truly over engineered like the R129.

Took me an age to find

it is in very good condtion but needs a big van to collect

I am located in south Croydon CR2

I also still have a panoramic roof in brilliant silver ,perfect blinds...and new rubber seals fitted.

PM me foe more info

From here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Triumph Man]

Lowtimer said:

Triumph Man said:

Useful to learn about leather, thank you! I've got a E39 5 series, with comfort seats. On the build sheet it's noted as "standard Leder" what type of leather (if leather at all!) do you think that would be?

Bad news, I'm afraid
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/33200-bmw-leather-or...

You would have thought that being the 16 way electric comfort seats BMW might have put some nice leather on them. Ah well...

[Prinny]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

For the discerning 129 SL owners, especially if you're after a gift-to-self, have you seen this:

nav p said:

Having just sold my R129 I have still in my garage the correct factory hard top shuttle

This is the one that makes removing top a person job,looks like an engine hoist,rolls under the car.The car can also be driven forward over it with the hard top on, it also allows the hard top to be stored whilst hanging, truly over engineered like the R129.

Took me an age to find

it is in very good condtion but needs a big van to collect

I am located in south Croydon CR2

I also still have a panoramic roof in brilliant silver ,perfect blinds...and new rubber seals fitted.

PM me foe more info

From here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Hmm - pano roof on an early SL is a big no-no, correct? The idea of having the hoist does appeal though.

I should finally get some new springs (and pads) tomorrow too - one MB dealer in Manchester really wasn’t helpful at all, while another - in same dealer group - couldn’t have been more helpful. We went through all the option counting rigmarole (sorry CdG!) to get the correct spring (price of £129.06 per spring for a 129-066 - quite apt!) but were stuck on the correct pads red/blue. He instantly suggested waiting for the springs to arrive (this morning, less than 24h), and then ordered the pads to match. A logical procedure, and one that has restored my faith in parts departments, somewhat.