Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 13]

[Balmoral]

The thing I liked most about the Streetwise was that the name was the ultimate oxymoron.

[Salmonofdoubt]

Balmoral said:

The thing I liked most about the Streetwise was that the name was the ultimate oxymoron.

A friend of mine bought one when they were new as a driving school car because his school is called streetwise. He regretted it almost immediately.

[anonymous-user]

SpeckledJim said:

You could.

In fairness to the 75 though, Rover 75 owners are several classes above the average S-Type owner in properness. S-Types are, obviously, for Jag Man. In the £1-5k pond, that's not a generally a good thing. I have a cheap Jag, so that's a compelling Exhibit A.

Jag Man is a broad category stretching from the kind of proper chap who would also have considered a 75, all the way through to confirmed aholes. An ahole would not consider a 75, yet would be over the moon with an S-Type with extra eBay chrome.

You can trust 75 Man. He is a gentleman of the old school. He would not fit a noisy exhaust to his Rover under any circumstances. S-Type Man would snap your gnome's fishing rod in the middle of the night if he realised your 'ears of wheat' motif toaster and kettle set was newer than his.

Excellent summary. Someone on here once said that the X-Type and S-Type are rather UKIP-y, which hit the nail on the head. They certainly seem to be the heap of choice for the eBay tat add on chrome magpies. Usually with the smallest and/or most diesel engine. I like to tell myself that old XJs don't fall into this camp but it's best we don't look into that too much.

What's the score with the Rover V6 inlet manifolds now, can they be repaired or is it a matter of fighting over the dwindling supply of working ones?

[SpeckledJim]

dme123 said:

SpeckledJim said:

You could.

In fairness to the 75 though, Rover 75 owners are several classes above the average S-Type owner in properness. S-Types are, obviously, for Jag Man. In the £1-5k pond, that's not a generally a good thing. I have a cheap Jag, so that's a compelling Exhibit A.

Jag Man is a broad category stretching from the kind of proper chap who would also have considered a 75, all the way through to confirmed aholes. An ahole would not consider a 75, yet would be over the moon with an S-Type with extra eBay chrome.

You can trust 75 Man. He is a gentleman of the old school. He would not fit a noisy exhaust to his Rover under any circumstances. S-Type Man would snap your gnome's fishing rod in the middle of the night if he realised your 'ears of wheat' motif toaster and kettle set was newer than his.

Excellent summary. Someone on here once said that the X-Type and S-Type are rather UKIP-y, which hit the nail on the head. They certainly seem to be the heap of choice for the eBay tat add on chrome magpies. Usually with the smallest and/or most diesel engine. I like to tell myself that old XJs don't fall into this camp but it's best we don't look into that too much.

What's the score with the Rover V6 inlet manifolds now, can they be repaired or is it a matter of fighting over the dwindling supply of working ones?

They cost £550+vat, but that's not important because you can't buy one anyway.

If you can find a good one in a scrappy you've done very very well, because the reason the car is in the scrappy is probably because the inlet manifold has failed...

[JF87]

I ran a pre-Project Drive 2.5 75 Tourer for a couple of years, and an 820 non-turbo coupe for another couple. Paid £500 & £700 respectively.

The 75 had immense Werthery charm (most of it completely lost in the clumsy & brutish-looking V8s), but felt curiously gutless and shed bits of interior trim on a regular basis. Also the seat squabs were weirdly truncated. The 820 looked delightful from the three-quarter rear view but had very little else going for it. Electro-hell with windows and seats, despite doing all the recommended resoldering.

I won't tick the Rover box a third time.

[SpeckledJim]

JF87 said:

I ran a pre-Project Drive 2.5 75 Tourer for a couple of years, and an 820 non-turbo coupe for another couple. Paid £500 & £700 respectively.

The 75 had immense Werthery charm (most of it completely lost in the clumsy & brutish-looking V8s), but felt curiously gutless and shed bits of interior trim on a regular basis. Also the seat squabs were weirdly truncated. The 820 looked delightful from the three-quarter rear view but had very little else going for it. Electro-hell with windows and seats, despite doing all the recommended resoldering.

I won't tick the Rover box a third time.

75 seats are indeed oddly short under the knee. Weird, as they're built on the same guts as those in an E46, and they're ok.

[Stegel]

SpeckledJim said:

You could.

In fairness to the 75 though, Rover 75 owners are several classes above the average S-Type owner in properness. S-Types are, obviously, for Jag Man. In the £1-5k pond, that's not a generally a good thing. I have a cheap Jag, so that's a compelling Exhibit A.

Jag Man is a broad category stretching from the kind of proper chap who would also have considered a 75, all the way through to confirmed aholes. An ahole would not consider a 75, yet would be over the moon with an S-Type with extra eBay chrome.

You can trust 75 Man. He is a gentleman of the old school. He would not fit a noisy exhaust to his Rover under any circumstances. S-Type Man would snap your gnome's fishing rod in the middle of the night if he realised your 'ears of wheat' motif toaster and kettle set was newer than his.

I’m thinking you’re onto something there. Two friends had 75s when they were new - friend 1 had a diesel, has progressed to a series of Honda CRVs and is probably only a year away from popping the tartan rug on the load cover. Friend 2 had a V6, progressed to a new S type, and now drives a black Ford Ranger with all the decals and chrome. Lovely guy, he’s a great friend, but everyone outside the “circle of trust” had better watch out.

(Love the references to final salary Geralds and mouse damage too!).

[Rubins4]

dme123 said:

I like to tell myself that old XJs don't fall into this camp but it's best we don't look into that too much.

My admiration for the XJR I was gorping at in a Sainsbury's car park one day was somewhat diminished when its owner, the chap who collects the trolleys from around the car park, climbed in and drove off, still wearing his hi-vis coat. Rightly or wrongly, the experience tainted my desire for a cheap Jag.

It sounded nice though

[JF87]

Smart-looking coal-hole CL bi-turbo with under 100k miles - just a ballsy haggle away from thread budget.





https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...

[anonymous-user]

Rubins4 said:

dme123 said:

I like to tell myself that old XJs don't fall into this camp but it's best we don't look into that too much.

My admiration for the XJR I was gorping at in a Sainsbury's car park one day was somewhat diminished when its owner, the chap who collects the trolleys from around the car park, climbed in and drove off, still wearing his hi-vis coat. Rightly or wrongly, the experience tainted my desire for a cheap Jag.

It sounded nice though

He's probably on some sort of ropey smoker 1-5 internet thing full of people who think cars like that are a good idea and they egged him on to buy it instead of a 6 year old Focus, much to the horror of his wife. Poor bloke.

[ShampooEfficient]

That Mulsanne makes me feel ill. They look like a Chinese copy of a Bentley IMHO.

[Rubins4]

dme123 said:

Rubins4 said:

dme123 said:

I like to tell myself that old XJs don't fall into this camp but it's best we don't look into that too much.

My admiration for the XJR I was gorping at in a Sainsbury's car park one day was somewhat diminished when its owner, the chap who collects the trolleys from around the car park, climbed in and drove off, still wearing his hi-vis coat. Rightly or wrongly, the experience tainted my desire for a cheap Jag.

It sounded nice though

He's probably on some sort of ropey smoker 1-5 internet thing full of people who think cars like that are a good idea and they egged him on to buy it instead of a 6 year old Focus, much to the horror of his wife. Poor bloke.

Quite; dreadful people. Of course they should have advised him to lease the latest registration premium exec to flaunt wealth.

[Rubins4]

JF87 said:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...

This is Cat D - is there an easy way to find out what the damage was?

[SpeckledJim]

Croutons said:

And the new RR, 5.0SC, currently 32x thread. How long before they're in it?
https://www.gumtree.com/p/land-rover/2018-land-rov...

By the 'halve every three years' rule of thumb, 15 years.

2034.

(I think it'll be quite a lot sooner that that. Think how toxic the ownership routine of that car will be in another 10 years. Between anti-fossil fuels movements, superiority of electric stuff by then, fuel costs, RFL, green agenda, hopelessness of in car entertainment, connectivity, etc etc etc, there won't be many folk in the market for that once it's a bit sheddy.)

[anonymous-user]

SpeckledJim said:

By the 'halve every three years' rule of thumb, 15 years.

2034.

(I think it'll be quite a lot sooner that that. Think how toxic the ownership routine of that car will be in another 10 years. Between anti-fossil fuels movements, superiority of electric stuff by then, fuel costs, RFL, green agenda, hopelessness of in car entertainment, connectivity, etc etc etc, there won't be many folk in the market for that once it's a bit sheddy.)

Based on how the L322 has plummeted 12-15 would seem about right; 2003 year old models are regularly well under £5k now.

It'll be interesting to see how the growing upheavals you cite change the game, particularly for luxury cars. The market for people willing to suffer the RR ownership experience (and a lot of the barges we discuss) once the 'prestige' element is gone is very small even without these pressures. On top of this, the electric drivetrain in a Tesla S makes even the smoothest ICE and gearbox feel like something from the 19th century, and costs buttons to run in maintenance and 'fuel'.

[SpeckledJim]

dme123 said:

SpeckledJim said:

By the 'halve every three years' rule of thumb, 15 years.

2034.

(I think it'll be quite a lot sooner that that. Think how toxic the ownership routine of that car will be in another 10 years. Between anti-fossil fuels movements, superiority of electric stuff by then, fuel costs, RFL, green agenda, hopelessness of in car entertainment, connectivity, etc etc etc, there won't be many folk in the market for that once it's a bit sheddy.)

Based on how the L322 has plummeted 12-15 would seem about right; 2003 year old models are regularly well under £5k now.

It'll be interesting to see how the growing upheavals you cite change the game, particularly for luxury cars. The market for people willing to suffer the RR ownership experience (and a lot of the barges we discuss) once the 'prestige' element is gone is very small even without these pressures. On top of this, the electric drivetrain in a Tesla S makes even the smoothest ICE and gearbox feel like something from the 19th century, and costs buttons to run in maintenance and 'fuel'.

It's going to be an absolute massacre for interesting cars, I'm afraid.

In almost every respect electric propulsion is superior to a petrol V12, never mind a 4-pot diesel.

Most sales of said V12s (in saloons at least) are to people who want not a V12 per se, they just want the best/most expensive saloon. Very soon, the best/most expensive will be a BEV with a huge battery, all-wheel drive, and 0-60 in under 4 seconds, so that's what they will buy. (That it costs under 4p a mile in 'fuel' is a bonus).

15 years later, V12s will either be worthless or worth an utter fortune, depending on the desirability of the metalwork that surrounds them.

The situation for 'normal' interesing cars, with 6- and 8- cylinders will be even worse, IMO, as their original buyers are more cost conscious than those of V12s, so will find electric propulsion commensurately more appealing.

(I'm not wholly against this. Or even half against it. I love my Leaf, and the money it has saved in 18,000 miles this year is taking four of us to Greece, (5 star, Phers, as if you had to wonder...))

[anonymous-user]

SpeckledJim said:

It's going to be an absolute massacre for interesting cars, I'm afraid.

In almost every respect electric propulsion is superior to a petrol V12, never mind a 4-pot diesel.

Most sales of said V12s (in saloons at least) are to people who want not a V12 per se, they just want the best/most expensive saloon. Very soon, the best/most expensive will be a BEV with a huge battery, all-wheel drive, and 0-60 in under 4 seconds, so that's what they will buy. (That it costs under 4p a mile in 'fuel' is a bonus).

15 years later, V12s will either be worthless or worth an utter fortune, depending on the desirability of the metalwork that surrounds them.

The situation for 'normal' interesing cars, with 6- and 8- cylinders will be even worse, IMO, as their original buyers are more cost conscious than those of V12s, so will find electric propulsion commensurately more appealing.

(I'm not wholly against this. Or even half against it. I love my Leaf, and the money it has saved in 18,000 miles this year is taking four of us to Greece, (5 star, Phers, as if you had to wonder...))

Electric propulsion is the best thing to happen to the car since the electric starter. Total smoothness, amazing performance compared to comparable ICE alternatives, near silence from the powertrain, you lose a lot of weight and complexity, and you get shot of a big source of expensive maintenance and repairs.

Not so much for sports cars.

[CAPP0]

SpeckledJim said:

dme123 said:

SpeckledJim said:

By the 'halve every three years' rule of thumb, 15 years.

2034.

(I think it'll be quite a lot sooner that that. Think how toxic the ownership routine of that car will be in another 10 years. Between anti-fossil fuels movements, superiority of electric stuff by then, fuel costs, RFL, green agenda, hopelessness of in car entertainment, connectivity, etc etc etc, there won't be many folk in the market for that once it's a bit sheddy.)

Based on how the L322 has plummeted 12-15 would seem about right; 2003 year old models are regularly well under £5k now.

It'll be interesting to see how the growing upheavals you cite change the game, particularly for luxury cars. The market for people willing to suffer the RR ownership experience (and a lot of the barges we discuss) once the 'prestige' element is gone is very small even without these pressures. On top of this, the electric drivetrain in a Tesla S makes even the smoothest ICE and gearbox feel like something from the 19th century, and costs buttons to run in maintenance and 'fuel'.

It's going to be an absolute massacre for interesting cars, I'm afraid.

In almost every respect electric propulsion is superior to a petrol V12, never mind a 4-pot diesel.

Most sales of said V12s (in saloons at least) are to people who want not a V12 per se, they just want the best/most expensive saloon. Very soon, the best/most expensive will be a BEV with a huge battery, all-wheel drive, and 0-60 in under 4 seconds, so that's what they will buy. (That it costs under 4p a mile in 'fuel' is a bonus).

15 years later, V12s will either be worthless or worth an utter fortune, depending on the desirability of the metalwork that surrounds them.

The situation for 'normal' interesing cars, with 6- and 8- cylinders will be even worse, IMO, as their original buyers are more cost conscious than those of V12s, so will find electric propulsion commensurately more appealing.

(I'm not wholly against this. Or even half against it. I love my Leaf, and the money it has saved in 18,000 miles this year is taking four of us to Greece, (5 star, Phers, as if you had to wonder...))

Not entirely on topic, but apropos the above, I sold an AJV8 petrol L322 at the end of last summer, considered and tried other things, and have just put a deposit on a (non-threadworthy) 5.0 SC FFRR, becasuse it's what I want. I went all around the houses on what to buy, of what age and what cost, and in the end I applied two factors: life's too short to drive boring cars, and (at present) I have the wherewithal to buy & run it, which once I'm retired may not be the case, and therefore if it's what I want I should buy it and worry about any consequences if & when they arise.

[anonymous-user]

CAPP0 said:

Not entirely on topic, but apropos the above, I sold an AJV8 petrol L322 at the end of last summer, considered and tried other things, and have just put a deposit on a (non-threadworthy) 5.0 SC FFRR, becasuse it's what I want. I went all around the houses on what to buy, of what age and what cost, and in the end I applied two factors: life's too short to drive boring cars, and (at present) I have the wherewithal to buy & run it, which once I'm retired may not be the case, and therefore if it's what I want I should buy it and worry about any consequences if & when they arise.

IMHO you made the right decision. Anyone buying a regular non investment grade car with much concern for future value is a fool, it's like fussing over chosing Andrex or Kitten Soft based on second hand value. If you care that much about long term residuals of something that depreciates very rapidly to zero then buying an expensive car isn't for you.

[SpeckledJim]

CAPP0 said:

Not entirely on topic, but apropos the above, I sold an AJV8 petrol L322 at the end of last summer, considered and tried other things, and have just put a deposit on a (non-threadworthy) 5.0 SC FFRR, becasuse it's what I want. I went all around the houses on what to buy, of what age and what cost, and in the end I applied two factors: life's too short to drive boring cars, and (at present) I have the wherewithal to buy & run it, which once I'm retired may not be the case, and therefore if it's what I want I should buy it and worry about any consequences if & when they arise.

Very reasonable decision.

Soon (or soonish) Land Rover will be able to replicate and beat the performance of the 5.0 SC, with big-enough range, and quick-enough recharging, and much superior NVH. The car will be better in just about every respect, and much much cheaper to run, which should also help residuals.

I'm guessing it will be cheaper to build, and on top of that saving, Land Rover will be hit with significantly lower warranty costs, and as soon as that's possible, I'm sure they will switch off the internal combustion engine as a possible choice. Most of the world won't care a jot.

So if you want one, now's the time!

(and thanks, because I'll want it to be around in 2034...)