Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 13]
Discussion
r129sl said:
A bit off topic, I know, but there seems to be a lot of G-Wagen love here, especially G-Wagen towing something. I spent a few hours on Friday afternoon splitting wood. a 300 GEL then hauled it home. I reckon the trailer is a tonne and its contents another two tonnes. Add the petrol splitter in the boot and you have quite an outfit. The G is ultra-competent in this mode, though. I must, must buy one. Not sure who the handsome lumberjack is.
I've been looking at them too and whilst I don't really understand why they're so expensive even when really old, I know there must be a reassuringly good reason! 
I've been toying with the idea of going across Morocco in one right to the edge of the Sahara with my friend but every time I suggest one that I've seen he counters with some kind of AMG Flip flake paintwork monstrosity for £Two billion and 24" chrome wheels. I don't think we're reading the same brochure.
derin100 said:
I agree. My wife and I once had virtually identical spec E39 Tourings autos, hers a 528i and mine a 540i. In the real world, there is no comparison in performance. The 540i is way, way faster! Again in the real world, I never noticed any supposed difference is "steering feel" even driving them back-to-back and IMHO I think this is a subtle nuance that gets blown out of all proportion in internet folklore.
Once up and running, say on a track maybe a 528i would be that far behind but that's not what reality is like on the public road where low down grunt and pick up from low speed matters. The 540i would be gone before a 528i even knew it!
I have to say that I think the Alpina 3.3 gets excessive credit in this respect too. I know it's (275bhp) looks close to the 540i's (286 bhp) power but it's max torque of 335 Nm/4300rpm is significantly down on the 540i's of 440 Nm at only 3600rpm. Again, this translates into a significant 'real world' advantage and I can give a genuine example of this.
One day, when I hand my 540i, I was driving along the A5 in Shropshire. Anyone who knows this road will know that it is a fast road punctuated by series of roundabouts. Suddenly, as Alpina 3.3 appeared and was driving really fast and aggressively, hassling and hustling other cars. I decided to give chase.
I stuck behind him and he realised he was being chased by another E39. Probably confident that what was chasing him was an M5 he started going faster and faster at each stretch between the roundabouts. I waited until I knew it was the last of the roundabouts for a while and as it then goes from dual-carriageway and then filters down in to single. So, still ahead of me, we come off the roundabout (real world remember?...there's a limit to the speed you can carry around a public road roundabout) and you could see he was really 'trying' by the way he took the roundabout then I booted it! The 540i just reeled him in rapidly and then just went right past him.
The 540i has always been a very underestimated car in my opinion...both as an E39 and in its day as an E34. I think too often people are ready to assume that the presence of an Alpina badge confers immediate superiority over anything the parent company was offering at a similar time. This is simply not the case. Another good example of this misconception is E34 Alpina 3.5 vs BMW E34 540i.
This is all true except for the timelines of the Alpina cars vs the M5 cars; the E28 B9 3.5 was introduced in 1981 compared to 1985 for the E28 M5; the E34 B10 3.5 was introduced in 1988 compared to 1992 for the E34 M5; the E39 B10 V8 was introduced in 1996 compared to 1998 for the E39 M5. Once up and running, say on a track maybe a 528i would be that far behind but that's not what reality is like on the public road where low down grunt and pick up from low speed matters. The 540i would be gone before a 528i even knew it!
I have to say that I think the Alpina 3.3 gets excessive credit in this respect too. I know it's (275bhp) looks close to the 540i's (286 bhp) power but it's max torque of 335 Nm/4300rpm is significantly down on the 540i's of 440 Nm at only 3600rpm. Again, this translates into a significant 'real world' advantage and I can give a genuine example of this.
One day, when I hand my 540i, I was driving along the A5 in Shropshire. Anyone who knows this road will know that it is a fast road punctuated by series of roundabouts. Suddenly, as Alpina 3.3 appeared and was driving really fast and aggressively, hassling and hustling other cars. I decided to give chase.
I stuck behind him and he realised he was being chased by another E39. Probably confident that what was chasing him was an M5 he started going faster and faster at each stretch between the roundabouts. I waited until I knew it was the last of the roundabouts for a while and as it then goes from dual-carriageway and then filters down in to single. So, still ahead of me, we come off the roundabout (real world remember?...there's a limit to the speed you can carry around a public road roundabout) and you could see he was really 'trying' by the way he took the roundabout then I booted it! The 540i just reeled him in rapidly and then just went right past him.
The 540i has always been a very underestimated car in my opinion...both as an E39 and in its day as an E34. I think too often people are ready to assume that the presence of an Alpina badge confers immediate superiority over anything the parent company was offering at a similar time. This is simply not the case. Another good example of this misconception is E34 Alpina 3.5 vs BMW E34 540i.
Buchloe used to introduce their performance versions of models years before BMW developed the M versions or even the engine development versions of those cars. Whether they do this now with almost exact imitations of electronic engine and suspension systems is up to debate...
Comparing the E34 B10 3.5 to the 540i is a six year gap of 1988 to 1994; you are better off chronologically comparing the 1994 315bhp B10 4.0 E34 or the 1995 340bhp B10 4.6 with the 286bhp 540i.
As for the torque vs power argument I have to agree. I had a car geek weekend away and was in a convoy with my E34 B10 4.6 and a 3.6 and 3.8 M5; both M5's were in fine fettle and recently serviced but through a series of about 8 roundabouts with half-mile to mile sections in-between the 315bhp 3.6 was quite easily lost and even the 3.8 M5 with supposedly the same 340bhp power development could not cope with the near 25% extra torque of the Alpina at 25mph to 30mph roundabout departure speeds.
It is this real-world power and torque combination that provides the difference in usable power between similar cars.
callahan said:
What is the general consensus on the Volvo xc70? Could be a perfect family / dog / tip run car but I have a nagging thought that they have inherent issues, is that right?
This place has lots of Japanese imports that seem very good value: https://www.akcofhertfordshire.co.uk/used-cars?sor...
Thanks
Hard to look past the D5 engine in any Volvo of that era, tbh (we didn't). This place has lots of Japanese imports that seem very good value: https://www.akcofhertfordshire.co.uk/used-cars?sor...
Thanks
Other than that, and with the proviso that you check the operation of the autobox (I think it's still the AW55 on the 2.5T engine) particularly carefully whilst it's up to full temperature, avoid the 4C suspension, and accept that you're going to be replacing a lot of suspension components, all's good. They are tough cars, and wear the years very well in our experience.
E65Ross said:
derin100 said:
r129sl said:
E65Ross said:
Salmonofdoubt said:
Waaay over budget. And not really enough cylinders. But the lack of miles 
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1083835
However it looks odd in this pic as if the body and wheels have been badly photoshopped together. Or were they all so high?
Whilst nice, I think it's priced oddly. I can understand it being more expensive, but are there really (m)any people willing to part with £17k for a 2 litre 190E? I presume it's a 2, not a 1.8?https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1083835
However it looks odd in this pic as if the body and wheels have been badly photoshopped together. Or were they all so high?
The W201 is a good car, but I don't think they're that great but the standards of today. I've been in 3, driven 2. In my humble opinion, the 2 litre engine is the least characterful/most dreary 4 cylinder petrol engine I have ever come across, the gearbox is frustrating by today's standards and they're pretty slow. They're well screwed together, but that doesn't mean they'd require less maintenance than a car 20 years younger. They do have a charm that isn't present with many other cars, mind, and I can understand why they have a following. I just think that a W124 is a much better car.
Bonefish Blues said:
Hard to look past the D5 engine in any Volvo of that era, tbh (we didn't).
Other than that, and with the proviso that you check the operation of the autobox (I think it's still the AW55 on the 2.5T engine) particularly carefully whilst it's up to full temperature, avoid the 4C suspension, and accept that you're going to be replacing a lot of suspension components, all's good. They are tough cars, and wear the years very well in our experience.
Thanks. I was thinking petrol as Mrs C does lots of short journeys so I thought it might last longer, but the D5 is very good so.... Other than that, and with the proviso that you check the operation of the autobox (I think it's still the AW55 on the 2.5T engine) particularly carefully whilst it's up to full temperature, avoid the 4C suspension, and accept that you're going to be replacing a lot of suspension components, all's good. They are tough cars, and wear the years very well in our experience.
Any thoughts about the Japanese import side of it? I can understand Subaru imports but xc70 imports? Seems a bit strange.
E65Ross said:
I am not sure if I agree about it being a brand new car. Rubber still perishes with time.
The W201 is a good car, but I don't think they're that great but the standards of today. I've been in 3, driven 2. In my humble opinion, the 2 litre engine is the least characterful/most dreary 4 cylinder petrol engine I have ever come across, the gearbox is frustrating by today's standards and they're pretty slow. They're well screwed together, but that doesn't mean they'd require less maintenance than a car 20 years younger. They do have a charm that isn't present with many other cars, mind, and I can understand why they have a following. I just think that a W124 is a much better car.
The W201 is not as well isolated from the road as the W124 and I think that's the main "feel" difference between the two. This means that tired shocks & bushes make a W201 feel old. Every W201 I've driven would have benefitted from new shocks & springs. Ride & noise isolation improve remarkablyThe W201 is a good car, but I don't think they're that great but the standards of today. I've been in 3, driven 2. In my humble opinion, the 2 litre engine is the least characterful/most dreary 4 cylinder petrol engine I have ever come across, the gearbox is frustrating by today's standards and they're pretty slow. They're well screwed together, but that doesn't mean they'd require less maintenance than a car 20 years younger. They do have a charm that isn't present with many other cars, mind, and I can understand why they have a following. I just think that a W124 is a much better car.
The other difference is that the W201 is far more inclined to spin up the inside rear wheel when leaving a junction. Not sure exactly why but springs & shocks are likely to play a part here as well
It could be that I am used to driving estates which are softer at the rear than a W201 - and softer means better traction
Nick Froome
SpeckledJim said:
Salmonofdoubt said:
Reading that makes me want to finish my dinner and google ‘Gunther holtorf’.ETA link http://www.ottosreise.de/en/start.html
Edited by Salmonofdoubt on Sunday 24th February 20:19
E24man said:
derin100 said:
I agree. My wife and I once had virtually identical spec E39 Tourings autos, hers a 528i and mine a 540i. In the real world, there is no comparison in performance. The 540i is way, way faster! Again in the real world, I never noticed any supposed difference is "steering feel" even driving them back-to-back and IMHO I think this is a subtle nuance that gets blown out of all proportion in internet folklore.
Once up and running, say on a track maybe a 528i would be that far behind but that's not what reality is like on the public road where low down grunt and pick up from low speed matters. The 540i would be gone before a 528i even knew it!
I have to say that I think the Alpina 3.3 gets excessive credit in this respect too. I know it's (275bhp) looks close to the 540i's (286 bhp) power but it's max torque of 335 Nm/4300rpm is significantly down on the 540i's of 440 Nm at only 3600rpm. Again, this translates into a significant 'real world' advantage and I can give a genuine example of this.
One day, when I hand my 540i, I was driving along the A5 in Shropshire. Anyone who knows this road will know that it is a fast road punctuated by series of roundabouts. Suddenly, as Alpina 3.3 appeared and was driving really fast and aggressively, hassling and hustling other cars. I decided to give chase.
I stuck behind him and he realised he was being chased by another E39. Probably confident that what was chasing him was an M5 he started going faster and faster at each stretch between the roundabouts. I waited until I knew it was the last of the roundabouts for a while and as it then goes from dual-carriageway and then filters down in to single. So, still ahead of me, we come off the roundabout (real world remember?...there's a limit to the speed you can carry around a public road roundabout) and you could see he was really 'trying' by the way he took the roundabout then I booted it! The 540i just reeled him in rapidly and then just went right past him.
The 540i has always been a very underestimated car in my opinion...both as an E39 and in its day as an E34. I think too often people are ready to assume that the presence of an Alpina badge confers immediate superiority over anything the parent company was offering at a similar time. This is simply not the case. Another good example of this misconception is E34 Alpina 3.5 vs BMW E34 540i.
This is all true except for the timelines of the Alpina cars vs the M5 cars; the E28 B9 3.5 was introduced in 1981 compared to 1985 for the E28 M5; the E34 B10 3.5 was introduced in 1988 compared to 1992 for the E34 M5; the E39 B10 V8 was introduced in 1996 compared to 1998 for the E39 M5. Once up and running, say on a track maybe a 528i would be that far behind but that's not what reality is like on the public road where low down grunt and pick up from low speed matters. The 540i would be gone before a 528i even knew it!
I have to say that I think the Alpina 3.3 gets excessive credit in this respect too. I know it's (275bhp) looks close to the 540i's (286 bhp) power but it's max torque of 335 Nm/4300rpm is significantly down on the 540i's of 440 Nm at only 3600rpm. Again, this translates into a significant 'real world' advantage and I can give a genuine example of this.
One day, when I hand my 540i, I was driving along the A5 in Shropshire. Anyone who knows this road will know that it is a fast road punctuated by series of roundabouts. Suddenly, as Alpina 3.3 appeared and was driving really fast and aggressively, hassling and hustling other cars. I decided to give chase.
I stuck behind him and he realised he was being chased by another E39. Probably confident that what was chasing him was an M5 he started going faster and faster at each stretch between the roundabouts. I waited until I knew it was the last of the roundabouts for a while and as it then goes from dual-carriageway and then filters down in to single. So, still ahead of me, we come off the roundabout (real world remember?...there's a limit to the speed you can carry around a public road roundabout) and you could see he was really 'trying' by the way he took the roundabout then I booted it! The 540i just reeled him in rapidly and then just went right past him.
The 540i has always been a very underestimated car in my opinion...both as an E39 and in its day as an E34. I think too often people are ready to assume that the presence of an Alpina badge confers immediate superiority over anything the parent company was offering at a similar time. This is simply not the case. Another good example of this misconception is E34 Alpina 3.5 vs BMW E34 540i.
Buchloe used to introduce their performance versions of models years before BMW developed the M versions or even the engine development versions of those cars. Whether they do this now with almost exact imitations of electronic engine and suspension systems is up to debate...
Comparing the E34 B10 3.5 to the 540i is a six year gap of 1988 to 1994; you are better off chronologically comparing the 1994 315bhp B10 4.0 E34 or the 1995 340bhp B10 4.6 with the 286bhp 540i.
As for the torque vs power argument I have to agree. I had a car geek weekend away and was in a convoy with my E34 B10 4.6 and a 3.6 and 3.8 M5; both M5's were in fine fettle and recently serviced but through a series of about 8 roundabouts with half-mile to mile sections in-between the 315bhp 3.6 was quite easily lost and even the 3.8 M5 with supposedly the same 340bhp power development could not cope with the near 25% extra torque of the Alpina at 25mph to 30mph roundabout departure speeds.
It is this real-world power and torque combination that provides the difference in usable power between similar cars.
I had an argument with someone here on PH years ago who couldn't accept that a straight-forward E34 540i was a quicker than an Alpina B10 3.5L. He started quoting all sorts of nonsense about the Alpina having "hotter cams this that and the other"...
Evidently, he hadn't been paying attention in his O-level Physics class at school. More power, more torque, same weight car....
Similarly, there are people who won't accept that an E39 BMW 540i is a faster car than the Alpina 3.3.
It's not that I'm in anyway anti-Alpina. I have one myself. But there are, for example, people who think that in the real world (probably from watching Youtube videos) that the Alpina Roadster S and the BMW Z4M are equivalents in terms of performance. They are nothing of the sort and that's instantly palpable on the public road. The Z4M is so much faster!
r129sl said:
A bit off topic, I know, but there seems to be a lot of G-Wagen love here, especially G-Wagen towing something. I spent a few hours on Friday afternoon splitting wood. a 300 GEL then hauled it home. I reckon the trailer is a tonne and its contents another two tonnes. Add the petrol splitter in the boot and you have quite an outfit. The G is ultra-competent in this mode, though. I must, must buy one. Not sure who the handsome lumberjack is.
Great! I'm a big G fan, but my ML will do until I can bring myself to spend the money. It still has a 3500kg tow limit, although I haven't fitted the tow bar yetIt's not as handsome or charming as a G either, but it was much cheaper!
E65Ross said:
Whilst nice, I think it's priced oddly. I can understand it being more expensive, but are there really (m)any people willing to part with £17k for a 2 litre 190E? I presume it's a 2, not a 1.8?
Christ. I scan read the add and thought it said 7 grand, not 17.I suppose the argument is... 'find me another'
tobinen said:
Just over max, pictures not the best but it looks tidy. Jaguar Super V8
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XJ-SUPER-V8-03-0...
f:1
Pictures probably aren't doing it any favours, but that colour is even worse than the gold on my dad's one! Also looks to have a yellow warning light on the dash which could just be the washer fluid, or could be something more sinister.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XJ-SUPER-V8-03-0...
f:1Does look to be a good example otherwise though, and you can't argue with the price.
derin100 said:
Sold for £2,800 - reasonable I suppose.
olly755 said:
There seems to be a glut of 200k mile plus Lexus LS600h's on Auto Trader, all descending rapidly towards the crosshairs of our meagre budget. No doubt the tax benefits, hybrid economy and usual Lexus reliability mark them out as the obvious choice in the VIP taxi game.
This seems to be the pick of the bunch at under £6k, although the rather awesome rear relaxation pack would be nice.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Now officially in thread budget at £4,995. Go on someone! This seems to be the pick of the bunch at under £6k, although the rather awesome rear relaxation pack would be nice.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
It’s hardly a G-wagen, but Enterprise have seen fit to give me a Mitsibushi Outlander PHEV this week (complete with no battery charge), it’s but 1300km old.
While it’s hardly a target car, any interest in a bit of a write-up? (Initial thoughts so far - there’s an amusingly obvious sub-woofer in the boot, but the sound isn’t all that good & the steering wheel feels nice. Pedals feel odd (both of them) and it makes some amusing transmission faux-pas at 150 or so going downhill over bridges, that really make it feel momentarily unsettled). The jury is still out. The run down from Schiphol once I figured out how to get the battery to charge too has given me 11km of ev-running apparently, will see what that’s like tomorrow.
It has already endeared itself to me compared to last weeks’ Mazda 6 and the Focus before that, both of which had all sorts of driving ‘aids’ binging & bonging incessantly. None of that nonsense thankfully. Oh, and the heated seat switches look exactly like the ones in the 2001 Pajero we have in Cyprus!
While it’s hardly a target car, any interest in a bit of a write-up? (Initial thoughts so far - there’s an amusingly obvious sub-woofer in the boot, but the sound isn’t all that good & the steering wheel feels nice. Pedals feel odd (both of them) and it makes some amusing transmission faux-pas at 150 or so going downhill over bridges, that really make it feel momentarily unsettled). The jury is still out. The run down from Schiphol once I figured out how to get the battery to charge too has given me 11km of ev-running apparently, will see what that’s like tomorrow.
It has already endeared itself to me compared to last weeks’ Mazda 6 and the Focus before that, both of which had all sorts of driving ‘aids’ binging & bonging incessantly. None of that nonsense thankfully. Oh, and the heated seat switches look exactly like the ones in the 2001 Pajero we have in Cyprus!
I sat and watched Palmier Merc sell for only £2800.
I told friends; I told relatives and none of them listened. I nearly pressed the trigger myself in the end because a lot of those advisories in the MOT history sounded like BS to me. And, the amount I was going to bid would have won it easily.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123654780593?_trksid=p2...
But, in the end, I had to remember that I already have too many cars, have no use for another and that these days I'm supposed to avoid unnecessary stress and aggro.
I told friends; I told relatives and none of them listened. I nearly pressed the trigger myself in the end because a lot of those advisories in the MOT history sounded like BS to me. And, the amount I was going to bid would have won it easily.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123654780593?_trksid=p2...
But, in the end, I had to remember that I already have too many cars, have no use for another and that these days I'm supposed to avoid unnecessary stress and aggro.
SimonTheSailor said:
derin100 said:
Sold for £2,800 - reasonable I suppose.
In other (not quite thread budget) news...
I received my brand set of Rips for the R230 from Germany today (I didn't know deliveries can even happen on a Sunday morning these days). I also ordered a set of rubber mats to go with them. All in all, they look great and another great deal from our man in Deutschland!
After fitting the rubber ones, I thought it was time to back the car out of the garage and treat all the roof rubbers to a good dose of Gummi Pflege. Immediately, I got a massive yellow Hazard Warning triangle with a central exclamation mark in it on the dash followed by the poem/riddle "SBC and ESP Unavailable" readout.
Here we go....The Bork Gods have woken from their slumber and are looking down on me was one's initial thought!
Google...check tire (sic) pressures, check battery voltage...if those are ok go for diagnostic.
Tyre pressures ok...tick. Consumer Battery voltage ok...tick. (Groan...)
So, I then start read the unfeasibly large and poorly laid out but detailed Owner's Manual. Eventually I spot where it says..."If the battery has been disconnected..."
The other day I attached an easy plug-in socket for a trickle charger to that battery so that it can be conveniently connected without having to expose the battery itself under the boot floor. This met that for a couple of seconds the battery was disconnected. Thus meaning, I now know, that what was required for the SBC and the ESP was for them to be re-set/re-enabled. The latter by the strange manoeuvre of having the engine running while you turn the steering-wheel lock to lock a couple of times.
All rectified now!
This is by far the most complicated car that I have ever owned. The E31 8-Series is like Fred Flintstone's car by comparison!
(p.s. SBC seems like a wholly unnecessary complication in itself...? I mean, in a car that's an automatic anyway...?)
I received my brand set of Rips for the R230 from Germany today (I didn't know deliveries can even happen on a Sunday morning these days). I also ordered a set of rubber mats to go with them. All in all, they look great and another great deal from our man in Deutschland!
After fitting the rubber ones, I thought it was time to back the car out of the garage and treat all the roof rubbers to a good dose of Gummi Pflege. Immediately, I got a massive yellow Hazard Warning triangle with a central exclamation mark in it on the dash followed by the poem/riddle "SBC and ESP Unavailable" readout.
Here we go....The Bork Gods have woken from their slumber and are looking down on me was one's initial thought!
Google...check tire (sic) pressures, check battery voltage...if those are ok go for diagnostic.
Tyre pressures ok...tick. Consumer Battery voltage ok...tick. (Groan...)
So, I then start read the unfeasibly large and poorly laid out but detailed Owner's Manual. Eventually I spot where it says..."If the battery has been disconnected..."
The other day I attached an easy plug-in socket for a trickle charger to that battery so that it can be conveniently connected without having to expose the battery itself under the boot floor. This met that for a couple of seconds the battery was disconnected. Thus meaning, I now know, that what was required for the SBC and the ESP was for them to be re-set/re-enabled. The latter by the strange manoeuvre of having the engine running while you turn the steering-wheel lock to lock a couple of times.
All rectified now!
This is by far the most complicated car that I have ever owned. The E31 8-Series is like Fred Flintstone's car by comparison!
(p.s. SBC seems like a wholly unnecessary complication in itself...? I mean, in a car that's an automatic anyway...?)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff