RE: VW shatters Pikes Peak record

[Markytee]

Joratk said:

I usually average 90mph on the motorway run home...

Nothing too exciting or fast about pikes peak.

I’ve driven up the peak and I can’t think of anything so different to driving on a motorway...I admire anyone who has competed there.

[RobDickinson]

This forum gives the USA a lot of stick about cars not going round corners.

Yet here is a race pretty much all corners. Not as exiting as a motorway apparently...

[RobDickinson]

fblm said:

More worrying if motorsports goes electric you can probably kiss goodbye to amateur/grassroots series for cost reasons. Would love to know how much this record cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipVbALqZsls

Model 3 places #5 overall and within 2 seconds of the fastest time set by a $150k 500HP Porsche 911 GT3. The Model 3 was also just a blink shy of beating a 560HP Nissan GTR and a heavily modified 600+HP Honda Civic. And this is just the RWD long range Model 3 with some good tires, lowered suspension, and better brakes, not the performance 3 coming soon

[borat52]

RobDickinson said:

borat52 said:

Cooling is a huge issue with high output electric power, it would be interested to know if the drivetrain on that VW was in some was pumped with very cold coolant prior to departure to give it an extra advantage (id be very surprised if it wasn't)

Cooling isn't that hard if you expect it, it's not like performance ice engines don't need it, they waste far more energy as heat.

Sure one ev has battery heat issues doing something it was never designed to do, but even then the model s is being used in an upcoming race series, I'm assuming it's had improved cooling but don't really know.

There's several other ev's that go quickly that don't have cooling issues, rimac etc, even the model 3, but for that I guess we'll see with the P3d version

I’m no expert but isn’t the reason that Tesla’s cut the power output around a track that they overheat the motors/inverter?

[RobDickinson]

borat52 said:

I’m no expert but isn’t the reason that Tesla’s cut the power output around a track that they overheat the motors/inverter?

Ah could be, the model 3 motor is more efficient and cooler which helps

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

fblm said:

More worrying if motorsports goes electric you can probably kiss goodbye to amateur/grassroots series for cost reasons. Would love to know how much this record cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipVbALqZsls

Model 3 places #5 overall and within 2 seconds of the fastest time set by a $150k 500HP Porsche 911 GT3. The Model 3 was also just a blink shy of beating a 560HP Nissan GTR and a heavily modified 600+HP Honda Civic. And this is just the RWD long range Model 3 with some good tires, lowered suspension, and better brakes, not the performance 3 coming soon

The performance potential is obvious but grassroots? How much is a season of model 3 racing?

[RobDickinson]

fblm said:

The performance potential is obvious but grassroots? How much is a season of model 3 racing?

How much is a season of racing at that level with anything else?

How cheap is something new going to be? Certainly not banger racing cheap yet ?

How about this? Small, fun, ev.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8bV8SKeQOo

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

fblm said:

The performance potential is obvious but grassroots? How much is a season of model 3 racing?

How much is a season of racing at that level with anything else?

Racing Porsche GT cars? Stupid money. You brought them up not me. Not sure what kind of race that was where a much heavier car with half the power can possibly compete but whatever.

RobDickinson said:

How about this? Small, fun, ev.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8bV8SKeQOo

Awesome.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th June 00:59

[mainaman]

Wow,the batteries were air-cooled and the power output was almost 1000 bhp less than the previous EV record holder!

[CedricN]

A cool car to build by vw, but it was a bit disappointing speed wise. I thought it would be much faster than the Peugeot with it that aero and with so much power and not that heavy.

[Alex Langheck]

Great time and achievement by VW Motorsport, and with such a shortish preparation time; obviously helped by having Romain driving, and with his experience with the Norma chassis.

And another feather in the cap of Romain, who is probably the most versatile current driver, almost a throw back to an previous generation. If it has 4 wheels and an engine, he'll drive it; GT, LMP, Pikes Peak, Dakar, WRC, etc

[Wayoftheflower]

RobDickinson said:

borat52 said:

I’m no expert but isn’t the reason that Tesla’s cut the power output around a track that they overheat the motors/inverter?

Ah could be, the model 3 motor is more efficient and cooler which helps

Telsa P's have a very small and very clever cooling system that lets them pull off their party piece insane/ludicrous/wtf mode launches a couple of times before needing a rest. The rest of the time its smallness is a big advantage in packaging.

[RacerMike]

RobDickinson said:

borat52 said:

I’m no expert but isn’t the reason that Tesla’s cut the power output around a track that they overheat the motors/inverter?

Ah could be, the model 3 motor is more efficient and cooler which helps

Whilst you can overheat the inverters pretty easily (and relatively quickly) the biggest issue overall is cooling the battery. Throwing more radiator or more coolant at it doesn't really work like it does with an ICE as the heat issue lies within the cells themselves, and getting the heat out of the cell. Teslas use the round Panasonic 18650 cell in it's batteries, which is very power dense, but also very tough to cool due to it's cylindrical format. It means that both warming (in cold weather) and cooling takes a long time and the battery struggles with quick changes of temperature (as seen on track). Pouch cells (as seen in the I Pace, VW eGolf, Nissan Leaf etc) are a lot easier to cool, and don't suffer so badly with quick temperature rises. It's still ultimately limited by the capacity that the cooling plates have though rather than coolant flow rate.

Longer term, it's likely that new cell chemistry which isn't quite so temperature critical (more than 50deg C is a big no no for current Li-Ion batteries) will help significantly. There's also a suggestion that if the solid state batteries some companies are working on are scaleable, temperature won't even be an issue as they generate a lot less heat.

Currently, it's possible to create vehicles that can have extended periods of high load (the Jag eTrophy series will run for 25mins I believe), but it's still very much in it's infancy. It will be interesting to see how motorsport pushes this development forward.

[dgmx5]

Joratk said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

I can't imagine it feels all that dull when you're doing an average speed of 90mph up it...

Completely pointless drivel.

Edited for accuracy.

[dgmx5]

Salamura said:

Congratulations to VW.
This achievement doesn't make me want to buy an electric car more, but it is through motorsport that battery technology can be further advanced and tested, so I salute them for doing it.

I'm not going to lie, a small part of me did die when I saw the news. I wanted the record to stay with the fire-breathing T16...

The technological feat is impressive, but such records pale into insignificance with Climb Dance... sometimes fastest does not mean the best.

What would be the greatest lap around Le Mans?

[strike4A]

foxbody-87 said:

Impressive but I’d still rather watch a (probably slower) ICE car do the run, the driver tap dancing on the pedals to control the car and ring as much power out of the engine as possible. Whilst motorsports are essentially about times, they are a spectator sport, and these types of run might feel amazing for the driver and set good times but they leave me cold.

I agree. This video of Loeb's record run is something special: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg&

[sidesauce]

dgmx5 said:

sometimes fastest does not mean the best.

I would argue that in racing of any kind, it absolutely does.

[Plug Life]

dgmx5 said:

sometimes fastest does not mean the best.

Oh wait, you mean Pikes Peak is a drifting race? Or exhaust noise contest? I didn't know that...

[StescoG66]

Wouldn't be surprised if they cheated....

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

People said exactly the same thing to those of us 'whining' about diesels in endurance racing when they were the future. Now the cost of hybrids has effectively destroyed prototype racing. Will people who like EV's take the place of current motorsport fans at events? Will manufacturers continue to bother with motorsports if they don't attract the crowds or TV eyeballs? If ICE can't compete any more how many companies chuck the towel in? Call it whining if you like, I just want to continue to enjoy motorsports. Who knows EV racing might be fun but if Formula e is anything to go by I'm far from convinced.

Not taking anything away from this record by the way which is fricking ridiculous.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th June 15:01