RE: VW shatters Pikes Peak record
Discussion
suffolk009 said:
I think if you compare the evolution of the electric car to that of personal computers, we've gone past the Sinclair ZX80 and are now onto the Spectrum with added 64k RAM pack. Really no further than that. Still a very looooong way to go.
I personally think we're approaching the Amiga/Atari ST era. Still a long way to go, though.(We are showing our age, aren't we?
)Slippydiff said:
Porsche911R said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
I can't imagine it feels all that dull when you're doing an average speed of 90mph up it...
it prob is, full tarmac has ruined the race.Obviously we don't all have blood running through our veins like you David
But an average of 90mph would make for some pretty high speed corners even taking into account the speeds reached on the straights.fblm said:
People said exactly the same thing to those of us 'whining' about diesels in endurance racing when they were the future. Now the cost of hybrids has effectively destroyed prototype racing.
hybrids havent destroyed LMP1, nor did diesels (diesel is the reason we even got to see Audi and Porsche head to head, VAG wouldnt have funded a clash between its own children if it hadnt been for differing concepts)Edited by fblm on Tuesday 26th June 15:01
LMP1 died because of the big budgets for comparatively little media coverage, why throw an F1 level budget at a class that gets you less then 10% of the attention? Sure, LMP1 would have been less expensive without the hybrid bit, but it would also not have been relevant as long as it has been, and the factory teams would have bowed out long before. And keep in mind the neo-GT1 class proposed to replace LMP1 will also be hybrid, just with a much more budget friendly approach to hybrid drivelines.
prototype racing has this very fine balance between allowing enough freedom to get manucaturers interested because of tech development and runaway budgets killing interest, it was that way with GT1, LMP2 was pretty much dead before it was reborn as LMP-Oreca/Gibson. F1 keeps going back and forth over that edge, on the one hand losing some of the smaller teams who just cant hack it financially (despite much more coverage/media income) and threats from Ferrari/RBR etc.. when budget constraints are proposed.
Ill admit right away that i very much hate the idea of electric only racing, the sound of a high strung ICE is a vital component of the experience for me, and currently EV racing just cant deliver the same pace, speed or stamina that ICE powered cars/hybrids can. An FE car would be absolutely useless at le-mans, needing a car/battery swap every 1-2 laps.
But that doesnt mean all the new stuff is bad and will make things worse... LMP1H was awesome for as long as it lasted, seeing the hybrids pull away from the regular ICE cars like they were standing still at Spa deeply impressed me, seeing those spaceships run laptimes halfway the F1 grid was insane... And we would have missed that and just gotten more years of Audi Bulldieseling le-mans if it werent for hybrids.
Vitorio said:
fblm said:
People said exactly the same thing to those of us 'whining' about diesels in endurance racing when they were the future. Now the cost of hybrids has effectively destroyed prototype racing.
hybrids havent destroyed LMP1, nor did diesels (diesel is the reason we even got to see Audi and Porsche head to head, VAG wouldnt have funded a clash between its own children if it hadnt been for differing concepts)Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th June 15:01
LMP1 died because of the big budgets for comparatively little media coverage, why throw an F1 level budget at a class that gets you less then 10% of the attention? Sure, LMP1 would have been less expensive without the hybrid bit, but it would also not have been relevant as long as it has been, and the factory teams would have bowed out long before. And keep in mind the neo-GT1 class proposed to replace LMP1 will also be hybrid, just with a much more budget friendly approach to hybrid drivelines.
prototype racing has this very fine balance between allowing enough freedom to get manucaturers interested because of tech development and runaway budgets killing interest, it was that way with GT1, LMP2 was pretty much dead before it was reborn as LMP-Oreca/Gibson. F1 keeps going back and forth over that edge, on the one hand losing some of the smaller teams who just cant hack it financially (despite much more coverage/media income) and threats from Ferrari/RBR etc.. when budget constraints are proposed.
Ill admit right away that i very much hate the idea of electric only racing, the sound of a high strung ICE is a vital component of the experience for me, and currently EV racing just cant deliver the same pace, speed or stamina that ICE powered cars/hybrids can. An FE car would be absolutely useless at le-mans, needing a car/battery swap every 1-2 laps.
But that doesnt mean all the new stuff is bad and will make things worse... LMP1H was awesome for as long as it lasted, seeing the hybrids pull away from the regular ICE cars like they were standing still at Spa deeply impressed me, seeing those spaceships run laptimes halfway the F1 grid was insane... And we would have missed that and just gotten more years of Audi Bulldieseling le-mans if it werent for hybrids.
fblm said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
People said exactly the same thing to those of us 'whining' about diesels in endurance racing when they were the future. Now the cost of hybrids has effectively destroyed prototype racing. Will people who like EV's take the place of current motorsport fans at events? Will manufacturers continue to bother with motorsports if they don't attract the crowds or TV eyeballs? If ICE can't compete any more how many companies chuck the towel in? Call it whining if you like, I just want to continue to enjoy motorsports. Who knows EV racing might be fun but if Formula e is anything to go by I'm far from convinced. Not taking anything away from this record by the way which is fricking ridiculous.
Edited by fblm on Tuesday 26th June 15:01
dgmx5 said:
The latest record breaking run is magnificent but it doesn't thrill and excite in the way that Climb Dance does.
I am not whining, just expressing the opinion that the fastest climb of Pikes Peak is not necessarily the most engaging and enjoyable to watch.
That doesn't seem to be unique to EV though...I am not whining, just expressing the opinion that the fastest climb of Pikes Peak is not necessarily the most engaging and enjoyable to watch.
Delete the soundtrack and could you tell the difference between this and ICE? Except the latter being slower.
Something, between suspension, tyre, chassis, and drivetrain design means the struggle to control the car is not really there.
Imagine being a child born yesterday. Go on, just try it. By the time you grow up, EV's are the standard road vehicles. They're cheap and convenient and only diehard eccentrics keep driving noisy mechanical artefacts, in which they burn wildly expensive and hard to obtain chemicals. Autonomous EV's are rife. You wonder if you really should get a driver's licence - it seems a bit pointless, since the insurance rates for driving a car yourself are off the scale. Just summoning a ride on your 'phone when you need one is much easier and an awful lot cheaper in every way.
Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
tr3a said:
Imagine being a child born yesterday. Go on, just try it. By the time you grow up, EV's are the standard road vehicles. They're cheap and convenient and only diehard eccentrics keep driving noisy mechanical artefacts, in which they burn wildly expensive and hard to obtain chemicals. Autonomous EV's are rife. You wonder if you really should get a driver's licence - it seems a bit pointless, since the insurance rates for driving a car yourself are off the scale. Just summoning a ride on your 'phone when you need one is much easier and an awful lot cheaper in every way.
Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
I couldn't agree with you more.Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
We're in the middle of a major transition in the way the masses travel and are entertained in the racing sense. ICE cars will, I believe, be relegated to the extremely well-heeled. Racing them will be seen as a curiosity but like the kids being born today not knowing the world before the internet and mobile phones, they will not be appreciated much or seen in the same way we on here presently see them at all.
JD said:
It’s my belief that the LMP1H era will be looked back on as the greatest era for the series.
And that is becuase of the technology packed into them, by despite it.
I don’t believe it will ever reach those heights again and I am genuinely sad about that.
Agreed, the LMP1H days of the R18, 919H and TS040/TS050 were amazing, and even though it flopped about as hard as a racecar can, the GT-R-LM from nissan looked genuinely exciting, just imagine that thing launching onto the mulsanne straight with 800 extra hybrid horses shunted onto the rear axle, that would've made an R18 look like it was in limp-mode, and those were lapping F1 range laptimes around Spa already...And that is becuase of the technology packed into them, by despite it.
I don’t believe it will ever reach those heights again and I am genuinely sad about that.
The new hypercars target the same laptimes as LMP1H, so i guess the speed will still be there, but the driveline will be much more homogenised, and the cars will probably look more like extreme GTE evolutions then the spaceships LMP1 produces. If Ford had been 5 years later with their GT, it probably would have been a hypercar rather then a GTE.
Im glad i got to see LMP1Hs in action in person, i might manage Spa next year, but seeing the class go is sad indeed.
Good piece in Wired too...
https://www.wired.com/story/engineering-of-the-vw-...
Not sure why everyone feels the need to slag off PH writers on every thread though; if it's so bad...
https://www.wired.com/story/engineering-of-the-vw-...
Not sure why everyone feels the need to slag off PH writers on every thread though; if it's so bad...
tr3a said:
Imagine being a child born yesterday. Go on, just try it. By the time you grow up, EV's are the standard road vehicles. They're cheap and convenient and only diehard eccentrics keep driving noisy mechanical artefacts, in which they burn wildly expensive and hard to obtain chemicals. Autonomous EV's are rife. You wonder if you really should get a driver's licence - it seems a bit pointless, since the insurance rates for driving a car yourself are off the scale. Just summoning a ride on your 'phone when you need one is much easier and an awful lot cheaper in every way.
Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
I think you are probably right but the EV racing you describe appeals in different ways to the ICE to which we are currently accustomed.Your dad takes you to an old skool race, with propa cars that go vroom, burn your nostrils with exotic smells and produce lots of noise, smoke and fine particles. Your dad is excited and hopes you will be too. It's somewhat interesting at first, but it's also primitive and slow and all the hoopla grows tiresome pretty quickly. It's just dirty, very inefficient, and old.
EV racing, on the other hand, is extremely quick, like a video game. The autonomous classes are a real test of technical prowess for the participants and easily the quickest and fastest. Not vroom, but WHOOSHH!! and WHEEE!! All the kids love 'em.
Noisy, slow, cumbersome and inefficient ICE racing is just for old people and maybe some kids that were born old. It's not of this day and age.
Racing horses and sailing boats remain popular even as faster modes of transport across land and water supplanted them. I think there's a good chance ICE racing will continue to exist.
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