RE: Porsche 919 Evo annihilates Nordschleife record
Discussion
Vitorio said:
How about we stop any and all motorsports then? Surely we can not allow any new F1 drivers to dishonour the memory of MSC by also attaining 7 WDCs? And surely Alonso can not be allowed to devalue the Hill's triple crown, so he should be banned from the indy 500?
Have we all forgotten about Nuvolari, Hill, Hunt, Lauda, Senna, Prost, McRae etc..?
Porsche should be commended for going after records like this, isnt that what motorsports is about after all, being fastest?
100% thisHave we all forgotten about Nuvolari, Hill, Hunt, Lauda, Senna, Prost, McRae etc..?
Porsche should be commended for going after records like this, isnt that what motorsports is about after all, being fastest?
Stonking achievement and hats off to Porsche for turning up, inviting all the media to witness and just knuckling down and doing it. There's been plenty of talk over the years but now, irrespective of the reasons behind it, an attempt has been made. Mighty impressive indeed
Vitorio said:
RemyMartin81D said:
I feel sad for the memory of Bellof. Pretty obvious it could be beaten etc but to actually go out and do it seems to show a disregard for the man. Should have left his name in the record books instead now he'll largely be forgotten. Oh well.
How about we stop any and all motorsports then? Surely we can not allow any new F1 drivers to dishonour the memory of MSC by also attaining 7 WDCs? And surely Alonso can not be allowed to devalue the Hill's triple crown, so he should be banned from the indy 500?Have we all forgotten about Nuvolari, Hill, Hunt, Lauda, Senna, Prost, McRae etc..?
Porsche should be commended for going after records like this, isnt that what motorsports is about after all, being fastest?
What Porsche have done is modify a car beyond any race regulations, fit a set of bespoke tyres, and set a time on an empty track in ideal conditions. The lap time achieved is very impressive but totally meaningless in the historical context.
RemyMartin81D said:
I feel sad for the memory of Bellof. Pretty obvious it could be beaten etc but to actually go out and do it seems to show a disregard for the man. Should have left his name in the record books instead now he'll largely be forgotten. Oh well.
I disagree.Records are there to be broken.
NotNormal said:
Vitorio said:
How about we stop any and all motorsports then? Surely we can not allow any new F1 drivers to dishonour the memory of MSC by also attaining 7 WDCs? And surely Alonso can not be allowed to devalue the Hill's triple crown, so he should be banned from the indy 500?
Have we all forgotten about Nuvolari, Hill, Hunt, Lauda, Senna, Prost, McRae etc..?
Porsche should be commended for going after records like this, isnt that what motorsports is about after all, being fastest?
100% thisHave we all forgotten about Nuvolari, Hill, Hunt, Lauda, Senna, Prost, McRae etc..?
Porsche should be commended for going after records like this, isnt that what motorsports is about after all, being fastest?
Stonking achievement and hats off to Porsche for turning up, inviting all the media to witness and just knuckling down and doing it. There's been plenty of talk over the years but now, irrespective of the reasons behind it, an attempt has been made. Mighty impressive indeed
thegreenhell said:
This difference between all of those achievements, including Bellof's, and what Porsche have just done, is that all the others were done in competition with a car built to a set of regulations, while beating others trying to do the same under the same conditions at the same time.
Yup -- which is why Bellof's record still stands and will probably for a while. Fastest time in a homologated race car. The 919 Evo time, while mighty fast, is for a one-off prototype. But I can see only winners here. Porsche's work on the Evo is extremly impressive IMO. Yes it's pure marketing, but they could make ads for their s
tty SUVs with the same money. And it's not like they haven't left endurance racing before. This comes and goes with company politics. Just the way things are, for every manufacturer.
thegreenhell said:
This difference between all of those achievements, including Bellof's, and what Porsche have just done, is that all the others were done in competition with a car built to a set of regulations, while beating others trying to do the same under the same conditions at the same time.
What Porsche have done is modify a car beyond any race regulations, fit a set of bespoke tyres, and set a time on an empty track in ideal conditions. The lap time achieved is very impressive but totally meaningless in the historical context.
There is a point in there somewhere, but it all gets pretty meaningless pretty fast. a stock 919H would have beaten Bellofs time as well, within regs.What Porsche have done is modify a car beyond any race regulations, fit a set of bespoke tyres, and set a time on an empty track in ideal conditions. The lap time achieved is very impressive but totally meaningless in the historical context.
And while we are at regs, the 919H is built to the 2017 LMP1H regulations, which are targetted at promoting hybrid power, and adjusted each year to keep lap times around la sarthe acceptable for safety reasons. The 956 was built in a different era, to very different specs, and ran on a different la-sarthe, a different nurbrugring etc.. Unless you know how restricted the 956 was by its actual regulations compared to what was possible back then (and then do the same analysis on the 919 evo, it is still very much LMP1 based after all), it is pretty pointless to go on about specs, as those are entirely arbitrary
Any laptime is meaningless outside of its historical context, a stock 919H would be just as meaningless compared to bellof's time as the Evo, different era, different rules, different track layout.
Bellof's time will always be significant, and one for the history books, but so will this effort, even if it gets beaten within the next few years by someone taking a derestricted F1 car to the Ring.
thegreenhell said:
This difference between all of those achievements, including Bellof's, and what Porsche have just done, is that all the others were done in competition with a car built to a set of regulations, while beating others trying to do the same under the same conditions at the same time.
What Porsche have done is modify a car beyond any race regulations, fit a set of bespoke tyres, and set a time on an empty track in ideal conditions. The lap time achieved is very impressive but totally meaningless in the historical context.
Kind of my point when removing my own romantic, misty eyed bullsWhat Porsche have done is modify a car beyond any race regulations, fit a set of bespoke tyres, and set a time on an empty track in ideal conditions. The lap time achieved is very impressive but totally meaningless in the historical context.
t lol.Vitorio said:
There is a point in there somewhere, but it all gets pretty meaningless pretty fast. a stock 919H would have beaten Bellofs time as well, within regs.
And while we are at regs, the 919H is built to the 2017 LMP1H regulations, which are targetted at promoting hybrid power, and adjusted each year to keep lap times around la sarthe acceptable for safety reasons. The 956 was built in a different era, to very different specs, and ran on a different la-sarthe, a different nurbrugring etc.. Unless you know how restricted the 956 was by its actual regulations compared to what was possible back then (and then do the same analysis on the 919 evo, it is still very much LMP1 based after all), it is pretty pointless to go on about specs, as those are entirely arbitrary
Any laptime is meaningless outside of its historical context, a stock 919H would be just as meaningless compared to bellof's time as the Evo, different era, different rules, different track layout.
Bellof's time will always be significant, and one for the history books, but so will this effort, even if it gets beaten within the next few years by someone taking a derestricted F1 car to the Ring.
You've articulated my similar thoughts better than I ever could. Totally agree with you on thisAnd while we are at regs, the 919H is built to the 2017 LMP1H regulations, which are targetted at promoting hybrid power, and adjusted each year to keep lap times around la sarthe acceptable for safety reasons. The 956 was built in a different era, to very different specs, and ran on a different la-sarthe, a different nurbrugring etc.. Unless you know how restricted the 956 was by its actual regulations compared to what was possible back then (and then do the same analysis on the 919 evo, it is still very much LMP1 based after all), it is pretty pointless to go on about specs, as those are entirely arbitrary
Any laptime is meaningless outside of its historical context, a stock 919H would be just as meaningless compared to bellof's time as the Evo, different era, different rules, different track layout.
Bellof's time will always be significant, and one for the history books, but so will this effort, even if it gets beaten within the next few years by someone taking a derestricted F1 car to the Ring.
RemyMartin81D said:
I feel sad for the memory of Bellof. Pretty obvious it could be beaten etc but to actually go out and do it seems to show a disregard for the man. Should have left his name in the record books instead now he'll largely be forgotten. Oh well.
So no one should have tried to run another 4 minute mile after Dr Roger Bannister? Records and the people who create them are by definition transient. Much of human endeavour is about going further, doing more, being faster, better whatever. Bellof would surely had loved that someone would go out and do this. To take your agruement to its illogical conclusion, the first lap time of the 'Ring (and therefore the first lap record) should have forever been the fastest time anyone achieved?Davey S2 said:
1,160 bhp in something that weigh same as an Elise.
I genuinely can't get my head around that.
Yes, that's mind-numbing.I genuinely can't get my head around that.
You can go to your Ducati dealer right now and get a Panigale V4 with the fancy exhaust, with a similar power to weight ratio.
At least until you put a ride on board. But then it is a regular production bike and does have a contact patch about the size of a (sweaty) palm.
It's not a lap set in competition to regulations. It's potentially safer being a modern car... It's a marketing stunt and they should be racing WEC etc (although I wish they had these cars fro LMP1 - sub 3 la Sarthe?).
But holy st. 145mph average speed. That's nuts. It must be like warp drive.
If anything it proves what a monster lap Bellof did back then imo and doesn't take anything away from it.
But holy s
t. 145mph average speed. That's nuts. It must be like warp drive.If anything it proves what a monster lap Bellof did back then imo and doesn't take anything away from it.
Macboy said:
So no one should have tried to run another 4 minute mile after Dr Roger Bannister? Records and the people who create them are by definition transient. Much of human endeavour is about going further, doing more, being faster, better whatever. Bellof would surely had loved that someone would go out and do this. To take your agruement to its illogical conclusion, the first lap time of the 'Ring (and therefore the first lap record) should have forever been the fastest time anyone achieved?
Read the other replys in regards to set in competion. It's impressive don't get me wrong but it wasn't done in live race conditions so it's more a very fast exhibition lap in my mind. Your view may differ.
Vive la différence.
99dndd said:
Bellof's time will remain the official lap record as it was set in competition.
5:19 is some time though, can't wait to see the onboard.
I wonder why Porsche didn't fancy taking the 919 Evo up Pikes Peak?
I am only guessing here but the batteries might run out of charge for the electric motors and not recover enough over a hill climb. Then it is lugging dead mass around slowing it down.5:19 is some time though, can't wait to see the onboard.
I wonder why Porsche didn't fancy taking the 919 Evo up Pikes Peak?
I would like to know if the 919 (NON Evo) could've beaten the old 'ring record. On the basis of this crazy time, I think it could have done.
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