RE: Lotus Carlton: Spotted

[Mr Tidy]

bloomen said:

If Integrales, M3s and Cosworths can fetch this money, then surely this can.

I well and truly do not believe any of them are worth anywhere near the prices they ask these days, but what I think don't matter.

Nicely put!

If I had the money I'd rather have an LC than any of those!

I've never understood why quick GM cars have always been comparatively under-rated (and therefore under-priced) when compared to Fast Fords. A standard Sierra Cosworth wouldn't see which way an LC went!

I had a MK2 RS2000 back in the early 80s and loved it, but will never afford another - although a Firenza HS may still be attainable!

[406dogvan]

There's evidence that the market for anything other than the stellar/rare/astonishing is starting to soften - plenty of people who've been sitting on cars are starting to get nervous and sales are taking place below last year's offers - often quite a bit below.

As with all classics, getting a good price requires patience but the idea that stuff like Cossies are "rock solid and rising" seems to be wobbling (and not - if we're honest - before time)

I'm not suggesting the market is about to collapse, that's very unlikely, but the market is crammed with cars at 'silly prices' and it seems the buyers are thinning out/learning to bargain harder...

£75K for this is silly money but - hey - find another and all that jazz.

This really is one of those cars I can't see the point of owning tho - too many 'very hard to replace' bits means using it will require large balls...

Who needs an Imperial Green Paperweight?

[Mr Tidy]

406dogvan said:

Who needs an Imperial Green Paperweight?

Nobody needs one - but who really wants one?

I'd love one!

I did a track day 20+years ago with a mate of mine on the Silverstone GP track and sure enough when I was driving his Moonstone Blue Cossie Sapphire the head gasket went! (But they all do that, sir)!

Imperial Green surely trumps Moonstone Blue in the paperweight category?!

[diddles]

Driver101 said:

tim0409 said:

skatty said:

Have a looky at this one.

https://www.hendersonsgaragenairn.co.uk/used-cars

"Green, THE CAR YOU SEE TODAY AND PLAN TO BUY TOMORROW SOMEONE SAW YESTERDAY, £150,000"

A great example (inc. pics) of how not to sell any car, especially one at a speculative £150K!

That car has been "on sale" for years. The first time I seen the advert it was priced at £50,000 and it's gradually risen to £150,000 without actually selling.

They must have spent a fortune on Autotrader adverts whilst trying to artificially inflate values.

Lovely cars, but nobody is going to pay that kind of money.

Think he has had that sat in the showroom since the mid 2000's.

[anonymous-user]

I've got one with an interesting VIP history, didn't pay that sort of money for it, it is absolute marmite, if you like modern amg with traction control everything don't bother, if you like something that handles because its got big tyres, good set and suspension you will love it, attracts attention where ever it goes.

[blade7]

Mr Tidy said:

I've never understood why quick GM cars have always been comparatively under-rated (and therefore under-priced) when compared to Fast Fords. A standard Sierra Cosworth wouldn't see which way an LC went!

A quick google suggests the LC is over 450kg heavier than an RS500. The RS500 (which was less half the price when new) could easily make 350bhp + reliably. Still think it wouldn't see which way the LC went? I'm not justifying the silly prices today, but I'd have an RS500 every time.

[bloomen]

blade7 said:

A quick google suggests the LC is over 450kg heavier than an RS500. The RS500 (which was less half the price when new) could easily make 350bhp + reliably. Still think it wouldn't see which way the LC went? I'm not justifying the silly prices today, but I'd have an RS500 every time.

And if my grandma had balls she'd be me grandpa.

I don't think performance really comes into it, extra especially performance after tuning. I'm angry Skoda Estelle's are so unloved especially when you can install a twin turbo Viper engine or Pratt and Whitney J-58 in them if you're in the mood.

They're both iconic cars that people aspired to own back in the day.

[blade7]

bloomen said:

And if my grandma had balls she'd be me grandpa.

Pity she didn't.

[Limpet]

Incredible car, but half that money gets you a very nice E34 M5.

[JMF894]

Welshbeef said:

JMF894 said:

Why would you buy a Vauxhall Carlton if you had £180m in the bank? I mean ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY MILLION!

Why does Ant McPartlain Drive a Mini Clubman Cooper D when he has c£60m in the bank?


Anyway if I had €180m there’s a long list of cars I’d love to own (& would) but I doubt I’d have more than 5 at any one time. I doubt the Lotus Carlton would be in the first tranche of 5 but I’m sure it would be at some point.

Dunno tbh. Probably because anything bigger and more expensive would create even more grief and destruction when he crashes it?

[s m]

Limpet said:

Incredible car, but half that money gets you a very nice E34 M5.

Indeed, or a Lotus Omega if you fancy European trips etc

[Jon_S_Rally]

These topics are so repetitive. Just the same old mix of, "You could have XXXX for the same money", or "XXXX is faster/better" or, "My brand new Audi has a nicer interior". All of which are totally irrelevant to the classic car market. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, while performance/quality/reliability don't necessarily have any influence on price. Considering this is car enthusiast's website, it staggers me how many people still don't get it

Love these myself. A unique car with a real aura surrounding it. Followed one on my way to work last year, still has such presence.

[adam.]

s m said:

I'd want to be able to use it as intended - bombing down to the South of France, 4 up with luggage in airconditioned luxury, trickling along at 1800rpm. I'd want a few grand spare to ensure any breakages were sorted quickly and properly.

VLC is perfect then, at 1800RPM in top it's doing about 80MPH iirc.

Who remembers PHSS at Vauxhall a few years back...


phss-vauxhall-200714-187 by Adam Lister, on Flickr


phss-vauxhall-200714-183 by Adam Lister, on Flickr


phss-vauxhall-200714-165 by Adam Lister, on Flickr

[skatty]

diddles said:

Driver101 said:

tim0409 said:

skatty said:

Have a looky at this one.

https://www.hendersonsgaragenairn.co.uk/used-cars

"Green, THE CAR YOU SEE TODAY AND PLAN TO BUY TOMORROW SOMEONE SAW YESTERDAY, £150,000"

A great example (inc. pics) of how not to sell any car, especially one at a speculative £150K!

That car has been "on sale" for years. The first time I seen the advert it was priced at £50,000 and it's gradually risen to £150,000 without actually selling.

They must have spent a fortune on Autotrader adverts whilst trying to artificially inflate values.

Lovely cars, but nobody is going to pay that kind of money.

Think he has had that sat in the showroom since the mid 2000's.

Its being in the family since new, only a few miles along the road from me.

[s m]

adam. said:

s m said:

I'd want to be able to use it as intended - bombing down to the South of France, 4 up with luggage in airconditioned luxury, trickling along at 1800rpm. I'd want a few grand spare to ensure any breakages were sorted quickly and properly.

VLC is perfect then, at 1800RPM in top it's doing about 80MPH iirc.

Exactly

Right on the limit
Not much go in 6th but, as I've seen, the choice to drop a few gears to make the most of any chance to pass.

[irish boy]

Love these. Customer had one from new for a fair number of years, i remember he gave me a drive in it. Fantastic thing, tho the weight of the clutch was as memorable as the forward thrust.

[Crackie]

I recall a 90s group test with a Lotus Carlton, Turbo B10 Alpina, Merc 500E and marvelling at the specs. Carlton is a wonderful machine but a mapped 25000 mile, £25000 BMW 640i grand coupe or Audi S5 Sportback would have 400bhp, be quicker, handle better, be more reliable and do 30mpg. Either option makes far sense but hey who needs sensible...….

[diddles]

skatty said:

diddles said:

Driver101 said:

tim0409 said:

skatty said:

Have a looky at this one.

https://www.hendersonsgaragenairn.co.uk/used-cars

"Green, THE CAR YOU SEE TODAY AND PLAN TO BUY TOMORROW SOMEONE SAW YESTERDAY, £150,000"

A great example (inc. pics) of how not to sell any car, especially one at a speculative £150K!

That car has been "on sale" for years. The first time I seen the advert it was priced at £50,000 and it's gradually risen to £150,000 without actually selling.

They must have spent a fortune on Autotrader adverts whilst trying to artificially inflate values.

Lovely cars, but nobody is going to pay that kind of money.

Think he has had that sat in the showroom since the mid 2000's.

Its being in the family since new, only a few miles along the road from me.

Yeah, I've spoken to Mark in the past about the car when I've been in, Don't think they really want or for that matter need to sell it. Its just the price it would take....

[Zakmather]

This is the same car which sold not so long ago at H and H auctions for just less than 40K so that 75 K figure I think is outrageous!!!!

[Jammez]

Love these cars - can't fathom some of the bizarre comparisons though - a mapped BMW 640 would be better? Eh? Obviously that's going to be your thought process. Should I buy a classic Lotus Carlton or a modern BMW? Odd! Better still buy a cheap flat and rent it out!

Anyway, always read things about the parts being ridiculous to get hold of for these. Is that true? I get things like the body being fairly unique to the car but it does sound like the mechanicals are borrowed from other vehicles - what kind of stuff are people talking about when they talk about hard to source parts?