RE: Lotus Elan M100: Spotted
Discussion
markh450 said:
That's all great but WHEN (not if) interest rates go up, probably this August. A few start to sell to either avoid paying the higher rates or repay part of that mortgage which is now that bit more expensive. It only takes a few on the market at the same time to see a small price decrease which then prompts others to think about selling their 'investments' before the price drops further. Typical market sell off position.
While I agree with the great majority of what you say, I see something different here. I see one or two examples of a car coming to market, probably ambitiously priced, followed by a flood of others at increasingly high asking prices. Do they sell? Who knows, but with very few exceptions (those with asking prices at "comedy" level), stuff doesn't seem to hang around long.
markh450 said:
Probably not the right thread for this but as you started it! I think you are correct..
No one has a crystal ball.... but it's hard to argue against the logic when looking at current prices.
Simply speaking classic cars are now being treated as an 'investable' commodity in a way not seen since the late 80's (look what happened in the early 90's to the prices, i.e XJ220). When you look at the massive rate of growth in prices, logically this growth rate cannot increase forever and rarely in commodity terms do such steep growth rates end in a gradual and steady level.
Why are people investing? lots of reasons but. low interest rates, 0% capital gains tax, and as the advert on the front of the independent shows, investing in classic cars is now seen as more 'accepted' fair amongst fund managers. This is great for 'blue chip' big money cash investments, F40's, F1's, Porsche RS's et al.
But further down the line I imagine there are a lot of people who have borrowed to buy such 90's classic cars, as these are 'better than money in the bank', a 'great investment' etc etc. either directly with loans or indirectly by using money that would have otherwise been used to pay of some of the mortgage (i.e what's the point paying a sum off the mortgage when the interest rate is only 1.9%?).
That's all great but WHEN (not if) interest rates go up, probably this August. A few start to sell to either avoid paying the higher rates or repay part of that mortgage which is now that bit more expensive. It only takes a few on the market at the same time to see a small price decrease which then prompts others to think about selling their 'investments' before the price drops further. Typical market sell off position.
For those real enthusiasts it means the cars we like are a bit less money. Personally even though I stand to lose I'd much prefer the market to cool as classic or older cars should be there to be enjoyed firstly any financial gain should be a bonus.
As I said before I also do not have a functioning crystal ball! so this could all be completely incorrect. However I think this is strongly the most likely position, I do know many in the industry privately agree.
That, to me, sounds like a very good assessment of the situation! I'm just as unsure how long the status quo will continue. My suspicion would be: for as long as there is no capital gains tax to pay, i.e. even without enormous price rises a gain can be made on the investment.No one has a crystal ball.... but it's hard to argue against the logic when looking at current prices.
Simply speaking classic cars are now being treated as an 'investable' commodity in a way not seen since the late 80's (look what happened in the early 90's to the prices, i.e XJ220). When you look at the massive rate of growth in prices, logically this growth rate cannot increase forever and rarely in commodity terms do such steep growth rates end in a gradual and steady level.
Why are people investing? lots of reasons but. low interest rates, 0% capital gains tax, and as the advert on the front of the independent shows, investing in classic cars is now seen as more 'accepted' fair amongst fund managers. This is great for 'blue chip' big money cash investments, F40's, F1's, Porsche RS's et al.
But further down the line I imagine there are a lot of people who have borrowed to buy such 90's classic cars, as these are 'better than money in the bank', a 'great investment' etc etc. either directly with loans or indirectly by using money that would have otherwise been used to pay of some of the mortgage (i.e what's the point paying a sum off the mortgage when the interest rate is only 1.9%?).
That's all great but WHEN (not if) interest rates go up, probably this August. A few start to sell to either avoid paying the higher rates or repay part of that mortgage which is now that bit more expensive. It only takes a few on the market at the same time to see a small price decrease which then prompts others to think about selling their 'investments' before the price drops further. Typical market sell off position.
For those real enthusiasts it means the cars we like are a bit less money. Personally even though I stand to lose I'd much prefer the market to cool as classic or older cars should be there to be enjoyed firstly any financial gain should be a bonus.
As I said before I also do not have a functioning crystal ball! so this could all be completely incorrect. However I think this is strongly the most likely position, I do know many in the industry privately agree.
Or if another commodity/investment proposition comes along which outshines cars...
I had one of these for a couple of years.
The handling was good, although I have never driven an Elise so I cannot compare them.
It leaked like a sieve. The most common 'fix' was to place a towel over your right leg whole driving in the rain.
The engine is pretty bulletproof but everything else was always breaking.
It looks great from the front but the wheels don't fit the arches, particularly at the back.
I'd buy a mk1 MX5 instead to be honest.
The handling was good, although I have never driven an Elise so I cannot compare them.
It leaked like a sieve. The most common 'fix' was to place a towel over your right leg whole driving in the rain.
The engine is pretty bulletproof but everything else was always breaking.
It looks great from the front but the wheels don't fit the arches, particularly at the back.
I'd buy a mk1 MX5 instead to be honest.
PhilboSE said:
Yes, I owned one for 14 years and was one of the first to start modifying it. I did quite a few track days and it was really too underpowered, underbraked and soft to really be entertaining. Over a period of time I added a bigger turbo (& injectors & ECU), new brakes, new suspension, Quaife LSD, stronger clutch & lighter flywheel...lots of money spent and the car was a bit faster on track but they're pretty over-tyred and just not that much fun.
Do not go out on track with one of these on standard (front) brakes. They are barely up to stopping the car on the road, on track they just can't take the heat. But lots of replacement options exist now, at reasonable prices. I would recommend any of them over the original sliding calipers.
Ok, so need a fair amount of work on them to make it fun on track. Ah well, will push this a bit further back on the list then Do not go out on track with one of these on standard (front) brakes. They are barely up to stopping the car on the road, on track they just can't take the heat. But lots of replacement options exist now, at reasonable prices. I would recommend any of them over the original sliding calipers.
They may drive well, but parts availability is a real problem. A mate of mine had one and loved it, but got shot a couple of years ago because the maintenance was becoming prohibitively expensive (for a not-worth-much-money car), largely on the basis of massively inflated parts prices.
An Elise will cost more to buy but be cheaper to run.
An Elise will cost more to buy but be cheaper to run.
I've been on the brink of buying one of these for about 2 years, joined the forum and got as far as flying to Southampton ( from Newcastle ), to view and drive one. I was so convinced I was going to buy it, I left myself stranded when I didn't, and ended up back home in a Thrifty rental Ecoboost Fiesta!
I didn't like the early Elan I drove, it had a short shift linkage, not very nice to use. It also had none-standard suspension and the car torque steered a lot. Never driven a standard one, but in principle, I'll still end up with one, but it'll be standard. I don't like the green, but if the timing was right, I'd have viewed the car in the op. Already having a MK1 MR2 T-bar and a Boxster 987 limits the necessity for another daft roof-off car, but so what, I need to get it out of my system. I also will need to find somewhere to keep it!
I have no doubt it'll be a disaster, and like as not will replace the Corrado VR6 I owned years ago as the most unreliable car I've ever had.
I didn't like the early Elan I drove, it had a short shift linkage, not very nice to use. It also had none-standard suspension and the car torque steered a lot. Never driven a standard one, but in principle, I'll still end up with one, but it'll be standard. I don't like the green, but if the timing was right, I'd have viewed the car in the op. Already having a MK1 MR2 T-bar and a Boxster 987 limits the necessity for another daft roof-off car, but so what, I need to get it out of my system. I also will need to find somewhere to keep it!
I have no doubt it'll be a disaster, and like as not will replace the Corrado VR6 I owned years ago as the most unreliable car I've ever had.
Heaveho said:
I have no doubt it'll be a disaster, and like as not will replace the Corrado VR6 I owned years ago as the most unreliable car I've ever had.
Highly unlikely it'll be unreliable. As with most Lotus models they do suffer from skinflint, penny pinching owners though which is always a shame.Jon_S_Rally said:
I remember my dad bringing one of these home when they were basically brand new. He worked for Lotus and was going somewhere in it for work. Felt like the coolest kid in the world so I look back on these with some fondness.
I worked for Lotus Engineering between 1991 and 1996, I may well know your Dad... :-)Cold said:
Highly unlikely it'll be unreliable. As with most Lotus models they do suffer from skinflint, penny pinching owners though which is always a shame.
Very much hope you're right. Unlike many, I'm very happy with the idea of an Isuzu engine, and wouldn't expect much aggro with the mechanicals. It's the peripheral stuff that I'll be expecting grief with, at least from the stories on Elan Central.They were a sensation for a fwd back in 1990 - mags rated them although commenting they were too competent, too efficient - there was no Elise at this time though, just the MR2 and MX5
I had a 309Gti at this time and remember following a Elan down a well sighted fast, undulating local moorland road one summer evening - very impressive
I had a 309Gti at this time and remember following a Elan down a well sighted fast, undulating local moorland road one summer evening - very impressive
ewant81 said:
Ok, so need a fair amount of work on them to make it fun on track. Ah well, will push this a bit further back on the list then
Like most things its all relative to your ambitions and abilities. I track my S2 most years and always enjoy it - no shortage of fun at all. I'm not the quickest on a track day. I was surprised by Palmer's times at Combe in the test above but then saw it was before the two chicanes were put in so more understandable. My best laps are typically low 1:30s around there with the chicanes. Like everywhere, faster drivers in slower cars go past me and I pass slower drivers in faster cars. So for me a track day is not about "winning" its about getting the best I can out of the car and enjoying the process. Having said that I've got uprated brakes all round, bigger catless pipe, and upgraded ecu. Its not the fastest car but its fast enough - probably around 190bhp. In the wet I was faster than an Exige 240 cup round there, and I usually have a good tussle with most unmodded Elises whatever the weather - but in the end there's plenty of drivers out there who can beat me whatever they're in but, as I said, that's not really the point about whether its fun or not.I bought one in Jan and love it.
I had a new BMW 330 and not driving it much. So decided to sell the heavily depreciating car and buy something fun , something I can tinker with and not something losing £100’s a month.
The car is 30 but does handle incredible well on the road. It’s particularly been great over the last few weeks with non stop sun! It is fast too. Not as fast as my Remapped Impreza but fast enough without mod to be fun.
I also chose the Elan for its price point and comfort - I can drive 300 Miles in a day very easily. It’s more comfortable to drive than my Impreza. And wouldn’t want to do that mileage too often in an Elise.
The M100 community are incredibly helpful and friendly and help to source parts, There’s quite often a cheaper improved part.
It always turns heads and always gets compliments. People love a Lotus.
Mx5 mk1 or Elan. I guess if money is tight then go for a mass produced slower mx5. You want something more exclusive that is genuinely fun to drive and own.
I had a new BMW 330 and not driving it much. So decided to sell the heavily depreciating car and buy something fun , something I can tinker with and not something losing £100’s a month.
The car is 30 but does handle incredible well on the road. It’s particularly been great over the last few weeks with non stop sun! It is fast too. Not as fast as my Remapped Impreza but fast enough without mod to be fun.
I also chose the Elan for its price point and comfort - I can drive 300 Miles in a day very easily. It’s more comfortable to drive than my Impreza. And wouldn’t want to do that mileage too often in an Elise.
The M100 community are incredibly helpful and friendly and help to source parts, There’s quite often a cheaper improved part.
It always turns heads and always gets compliments. People love a Lotus.
Mx5 mk1 or Elan. I guess if money is tight then go for a mass produced slower mx5. You want something more exclusive that is genuinely fun to drive and own.
Edited by JusNoGood on Thursday 12th July 07:54
MPx said:
Like most things its all relative to your ambitions and abilities. I track my S2 most years and always enjoy it - no shortage of fun at all. I'm not the quickest on a track day. I was surprised by Palmer's times at Combe in the test above but then saw it was before the two chicanes were put in so more understandable. My best laps are typically low 1:30s around there with the chicanes. Like everywhere, faster drivers in slower cars go past me and I pass slower drivers in faster cars. So for me a track day is not about "winning" its about getting the best I can out of the car and enjoying the process. Having said that I've got uprated brakes all round, bigger catless pipe, and upgraded ecu. Its not the fastest car but its fast enough - probably around 190bhp. In the wet I was faster than an Exige 240 cup round there, and I usually have a good tussle with most unmodded Elises whatever the weather - but in the end there's plenty of drivers out there who can beat me whatever they're in but, as I said, that's not really the point about whether its fun or not.
The thing that strikes me about the laptimes is how fast that must have been sucking up the corners bearing in mind the straight line pace of the M5, Cosworth and 944S2. They put the chicanes in the late 90s as Combe was so fast. Also, Autocar used to put a small chicane in themselves for their own testing prior to the proper ones being done so bear that in mind if comparing with normal pre-chicane era times
Had a look back to see if the BRG one i remember is still going - it was up to a quarter of a million miles a few years back
One thing I remember about these if that the OE tyres were developed specifically for this car alone ( as per some Loti in days prior )
What do people use now in place of the Michelins - I remember an owner telling me years ago they were very tyre sensitive?
PistonBroker said:
Saw an M100 for the first time in a long time on my walk back from the office the other day. Not so good looking in Red - one in need of a polish at that - but still made my head turn.
Oddly enough I hadn't seen one in years and also spotted one Monday on the M6. Probably not the same one but also in red, looked a bit faded but made a nice noise. As someone else mentioned they were featured in Lotus turbo challenge 2, I kind of wanted one due to that but wanted an Esprit more. Didn't want either enough to actually buy one by the time I could though!
SimonTheSailor said:
Cold said:
Olivera said:
FWD, Isuzu engine and worse to drive than a £500 MX5. Ahm oot.
Lotus engine. 
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