RE: Volkswagen I.D. R shatters FoS electric car record
Discussion
selym said:
unpc said:
selym said:
An F1 car and a Nissan Leaf do the same job......a banana does the same job as the ugly fruit......a non league footballer does the same job as Ronaldo.
You aren't comparing bikes to cars too, are you?
No but you're comparing cars with cars. You're saying you can't compare EVs with ICE cars with is clearly bYou aren't comparing bikes to cars too, are you?
ks. ks so I'll let you get on with educating us.....go ahead.Wills2 said:
Without noise there is no drama or excitement see Formula E for details.
You're right! Motorsports competition is not about being the fastest at all. It's about noise and drama and excitement. And stuff. It's got absolutely nothing to do with competition, it's purely entertainment for those watching it. Everybody knows that.JimSuperSix said:
selym said:
unpc said:
selym said:
An F1 car and a Nissan Leaf do the same job......a banana does the same job as the ugly fruit......a non league footballer does the same job as Ronaldo.
You aren't comparing bikes to cars too, are you?
No but you're comparing cars with cars. You're saying you can't compare EVs with ICE cars with is clearly bYou aren't comparing bikes to cars too, are you?
ks. ks so I'll let you get on with educating us.....go ahead.Of course they can be compared, and the argument that "an F1 car does the same job as a Nissan Leaf" is ridiculous. Any person looking to race in F1 isn't going to buy a Nissan Leaf to race instead of an F1 car. Someone considering a cheap-to-run car may consider both an EV and an economical petrol or diesel run-about.
hucumber said:
Either way, both ev's thrashed the ice cars. I feel this is where the money for development will go, what's the point in spending millions on small incremental steps with ice cars when electric ones are already faster than the best petrol efforts
I thought the record was with an ICE car? Or am I mistaken? 
But yes, I agree.
130R said:
he 919 Evo would thrash that I.D R
Massively disagree. The 919 evo is designed for big tracks. It makes its speed by low drag (it has F1 DRS style active aero front and rear). The whole "light weight" arguement is a bit of a red herring - you don't ge t10s a lap at Spa by dropoing 50kg, you get it with active aero.Meanwhile, the Norma has been developed from the outset to win pikes peak. Max downforce, sod the drag. Goodwood has no straights, it'exactly in the ID.R's target aplication. Porshce were invited but declined because they know they'd be miles away.
tr3a said:
Wills2 said:
Without noise there is no drama or excitement see Formula E for details.
You're right! Motorsports competition is not about being the fastest at all. It's about noise and drama and excitement. And stuff. It's got absolutely nothing to do with competition, it's purely entertainment for those watching it. Everybody knows that.
Formula E has been a great show this season anyway, sounds better than current F1, which is not difficult...
Nelsons Club said:
Jake B - Porsche were asked but declined - my guess is the VW is faster as is purpose built - Porsche being owned by VW Audi - ipso facto!!! - Would love to see What it would do though
I'd be surprised if the Porsche wouldn't win by a margin, the unofficial record is held by a 2005 Renault F1 car that did some "untimed" exhibition runs up the hill in 2006.The commentator was timing it and simply reported it as under 40 seconds.
The 2018 F1 car is a basically the fastest F1 car there has ever been with only the 2004 3l V10 for competition. The Porsche is faster than the 2018 F1 car on certain circuits.
Some Gump said:
130R said:
he 919 Evo would thrash that I.D R
Massively disagree. The 919 evo is designed for big tracks. It makes its speed by low drag (it has F1 DRS style active aero front and rear). The whole "light weight" arguement is a bit of a red herring - you don't ge t10s a lap at Spa by dropoing 50kg, you get it with active aero.Meanwhile, the Norma has been developed from the outset to win pikes peak. Max downforce, sod the drag. Goodwood has no straights, it'exactly in the ID.R's target aplication. Porshce were invited but declined because they know they'd be miles away.
Justin Law has been up the hill with a time of 44.19.
The Jaguar XJR8/9 can't hold a candle to the 919 Evo in any measure and we'd be talking about the difference between a full factory set up and some very gifted amateurs.
Also bare in mind that this is a hill climb from a standing start, the 919 Evo has 4wd and launch control, it will probably take a second or two out of the XJR8/9 before the first corner.
Electric cars vs petrol is like film vs digital camera's.
# First digital cameras were really just a curiosity (1995)
# Then they became an early adopter product which was expensive and had some deficiencies
(lag between button press and shot) which users had to work around. (2003)
# Then the price came down and they became the default option but still had some deficiencies
(resolution) which lead to some holdouts. (2005)
a year than in all previous history etc). (2012)
At the moment we are edging towards the point where electric cars will on balance beat petrol ones followed by the point where affordable electric cars beat affordable electric cars.
However I suspect that really big change will come from what electric propulsion technologies and ubiquitous INS/GPS/vision systems can achieve. Like cameras the greatest impact of electric will be when they start changing the platform.
Firstly E-Bikes, Scooters, and all other forms of small transport:.
World sales of E-bikes was 16 million compared to 81 million cars, E-bikes are easily the most common electrically powered vehicle. Expect substantial changes to urban geography to accommodate them. They essentially solve the last mile problem for public transport particularly in shared and folding forms.
Secondly drones and other autonomous delivery, likely to start with small items but eventually most things under 50kg may be delivered this way.
Thirdly autonomous cars and their cousins, Loop and PRT.
Fourthly E-VTOL, in Europe where our cities are smaller and our towns more frequent I expect E-VTOL to be mainly used to travel between urban areas where typically line of sight speeds are now pretty slow.
# First digital cameras were really just a curiosity (1995)
# Then they became an early adopter product which was expensive and had some deficiencies
(lag between button press and shot) which users had to work around. (2003)
# Then the price came down and they became the default option but still had some deficiencies
(resolution) which lead to some holdouts. (2005)
- Eventually the performance exceeds that of the film camera in everyway plus adds capabilities
- Then the technology is effective superseded by a related technology as the platform (a camera)
a year than in all previous history etc). (2012)
At the moment we are edging towards the point where electric cars will on balance beat petrol ones followed by the point where affordable electric cars beat affordable electric cars.
However I suspect that really big change will come from what electric propulsion technologies and ubiquitous INS/GPS/vision systems can achieve. Like cameras the greatest impact of electric will be when they start changing the platform.
Firstly E-Bikes, Scooters, and all other forms of small transport:.
World sales of E-bikes was 16 million compared to 81 million cars, E-bikes are easily the most common electrically powered vehicle. Expect substantial changes to urban geography to accommodate them. They essentially solve the last mile problem for public transport particularly in shared and folding forms.
Secondly drones and other autonomous delivery, likely to start with small items but eventually most things under 50kg may be delivered this way.
Thirdly autonomous cars and their cousins, Loop and PRT.
Fourthly E-VTOL, in Europe where our cities are smaller and our towns more frequent I expect E-VTOL to be mainly used to travel between urban areas where typically line of sight speeds are now pretty slow.
big_rob_sydney said:
EV is still immature compared to the ~century of specialised development ICE has had.
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So everything else except the powertrain and 'fuel system' is not existing technology? Those wheels are held in place with Saarlac tentacles? And what would be the weight difference in powertrain between this Volkwagen and, say, that car with Loeb did six seconds slower four odd years ago (in his first time at the event)? Negligible I'd guess..
big_rob_sydney said:
EV is still immature compared to the ~century of specialised development ICE has had.
When we get lighter energy storage (whether that's a traditional battery or a super-capacitor, or otherwise), then we'll see improvements on a pretty big scale. Current EV batteries are quite heavy; imagine what that same car will do when you strip out crap loads of weight. They already match or beat competitors in a straight line (look at Tesla vs just about everything).
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In fact EVs have been around for about as long as ICE, and electric motors themselves have had plenty of development in the last hundred years or so, so EV is not immature. Its only recently battery tech has been good enough (and cheap enough) to be competitive. But if you are waiting for it to improve dramatically don't hold your breath - there is a limit to the energy density of any substance and its very hard to beat straight fuel for which you don't even have to carry the oxidiser.When we get lighter energy storage (whether that's a traditional battery or a super-capacitor, or otherwise), then we'll see improvements on a pretty big scale. Current EV batteries are quite heavy; imagine what that same car will do when you strip out crap loads of weight. They already match or beat competitors in a straight line (look at Tesla vs just about everything).
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