RE: Jaguar XE 300 Sport: Driven

[craigjm]

Jaguar have been majorly wrongfooted by dieselgate and bet the family farm on a new range of Diesel engines. The petrol ones are not special enough and by now should be hybrid and plug in and all that. Why they concentrated on building new XF and XE saloons when the Germans sell more coupes and convertibles ok those areas is beyond me. This car featured here should be a coupe to fight the four series. I don’t think I’m the only one either that thinks the interiors have taken a step back since the original XF and current XJ.

[Helicopter123]

Too Heavy.
Too Expensive.
Two few cylinders.

I'm out.

[carte blanche]

I thought the reason for the XE's weight was that it had a significantly more advanced (and therefore heavier) suspension set-up than that of its rivals. The aluminium construction is intended to offset the extra mass as much as possible, resulting in the XE being only slightly heavier than its rivals - the difference would be even greater with a steel construction.

[Helicopter123]

carte blanche said:

I thought the reason for the XE's weight was that it had a significantly more advanced (and therefore heavier) suspension set-up than that of its rivals. The aluminium construction is intended to offset the extra mass as much as possible, resulting in the XE being only slightly heavier than its rivals - the difference would be even greater with a steel construction.

It can have all the fancy suspension it wants but its still far too heavy and expensive for a 4-pot.

[kambites]

carte blanche said:

I thought the reason for the XE's weight was that it had a significantly more advanced (and therefore heavier) suspension set-up than that of its rivals. The aluminium construction is intended to offset the extra mass as much as possible, resulting in the XE being only slightly heavier than its rivals - the difference would be even greater with a steel construction.

Double wishbones might be marginally heavier than struts, but I can't see the difference being more than about 50kg across the whole car. The suspension is the last place you want to add significant weight.

[Onehp]

Even the article is confused about weight, stating (EU unladen). Problem is the EU definition is laden with a 75kg driver. Unladen no other passengers then...

Keeping it to EU definition hereafter, there usually is a large gap between declared weights of a base spec (lowest weight of lowest spec available to any market), and the actual weight with most of the options. The latter can be found in mag tests and registred real weights in different countries. Below I give a range, the truth for the more common specs lies in the upper half of the weight range. But first off:

herebebeasties said:

A Skoda Superb 280 is in a different league when it comes to interior space, is £7k cheaper for a totally maxed-out top spec one against a base no-options Jag but is 140kg lighter, for a much, much bigger car (still with four wheel drive, and with very similar performance given the weight difference).

Forget that. I've kept an eye on real weight for the Superb 280, a top spec approaches 1800kg and is thus roughly the same weight as the Jaguar (assuming optional equipment also adds to the declared base spec weight). The reason the Superb is roomier is because it's MQB, the engine isn't mounted longitudinally.

A 330i xdrive real weight EU starts at 1600kg base spec, 1700kg fully equipped.

A Giulia Veloce Q4 is 1600kg-1750kg. Suprisingly.

C43 is 1700-1770kg (good base spec).

Realistically not much in it for any of them, the BMW perhaps a little lighter. The Merc suprisingly good for a V6.

If you prefer old style kerb weights (unladen fuelled), substract 75kg from all of them.

If all of them appear heavy, the remember similar things applies to cars of old. I grew up believing an F40 was 1100kg. Highest measured eu weight is 1444kg....

Edited by Onehp on Monday 16th July 19:17

[J4CKO]

So, nudging 50 grand by the time its had a few options ?

For a 300 bhp 4 cylinder, thats a middling hot hatch engine these days, not a 45/50 grand sports saloon engine. Dont get me wrong, sure its a nice car but it isnt a tempting prospect at that price, the proper big hitting stuff like the M4, Alfa Quadra whatsit and AMG's arent a massive stretch away.

I imagine they wont sell any at the full price, its a 37 ish grand car, Giulia Veloce, Kia Stinger GT etc territory, a 440i is what, about 40 and has an extra 2 cylinders.

[JD]

craigjm said:

Jaguar have been majorly wrongfooted by dieselgate and bet the family farm on a new range of Diesel engines. The petrol ones are not special enough and by now should be hybrid and plug in and all that. Why they concentrated on building new XF and XE saloons when the Germans sell more coupes and convertibles ok those areas is beyond me. This car featured here should be a coupe to fight the four series. I don’t think I’m the only one either that thinks the interiors have taken a step back since the original XF and current XJ.

This is extremely accurate, poor old Gay Don didn't read the writing on the wall, and I fear scary days. Their only volume models are big SUV's with a list of engines that are disappearing.

The article says "It is significantly lighter than most of its rivals" is that even close to being correct?

[craigjm]

The ipace and new XJ need to be hugely successful to turn things around. The company has just been downgraded by Moody’s and now needs to concentrate on profitability. That’s not gonna happen while they are selling 19000 XE a year from a projection of 100000.

[J4CKO]

JD said:

craigjm said:

Jaguar have been majorly wrongfooted by dieselgate and bet the family farm on a new range of Diesel engines. The petrol ones are not special enough and by now should be hybrid and plug in and all that. Why they concentrated on building new XF and XE saloons when the Germans sell more coupes and convertibles ok those areas is beyond me. This car featured here should be a coupe to fight the four series. I don’t think I’m the only one either that thinks the interiors have taken a step back since the original XF and current XJ.

This is extremely accurate, poor old Gay Don didn't read the writing on the wall, and I fear scary days. Their only volume models are big SUV's with a list of engines that are disappearing.

The article says "It is significantly lighter than most of its rivals" is that even close to being correct?

E-pace ?

[JD]

J4CKO said:

E-pace ?

Have you seen any?

They sell barely more than the XE and its a brand new model!

[craigjm]

JD said:

J4CKO said:

E-pace ?

Have you seen any?

They sell barely more than the XE and its a brand new model!

Built on an old platform

[Sine Metu]

Are people still actually buying those three box saloon cars?

[carte blanche]

kambites said:

carte blanche said:

I thought the reason for the XE's weight was that it had a significantly more advanced (and therefore heavier) suspension set-up than that of its rivals. The aluminium construction is intended to offset the extra mass as much as possible, resulting in the XE being only slightly heavier than its rivals - the difference would be even greater with a steel construction.

Double wishbones might be marginally heavier than struts, but I can't see the difference being more than about 50kg across the whole car. The suspension is the last place you want to add significant weight.

Ah OK, not massively clued up on these things but I thought I recalled reading something about the suspension being responsible for the XE's weight at the time of its launch.

I was looking into getting one of these, I think I agree that in this guise it's too expensive, but there are other trim levels available - I think the regular R-Sport and Portfolio lines offer better value for money. In base SE form with this engine it would be a pretty good Q-car, most would just assume it had a repmobile-spec 163 PS diesel engine. I think it's more likely that I'd just go for a used V6 supercharged model though.

JD said:

J4CKO said:

E-pace ?

Have you seen any?

They sell barely more than the XE and its a brand new model!

I've seen quite a few E-Paces, I do live close to Gaydon though. I disagree with the pessimistic outlook of JLR's fortunes opined above, models such as the XE might have underperformed in terms of sales, but I think that simply reflects market trends. The SUV models are still selling as strongly as ever, and Land Rover have several plug-in hybrid models available now. Even if tough times are approaching, the company will weather the storm, they have the backing of TATA after all, who are not going to pull the plug now after investing so much.

[Chestrockwell]

I really want to drive one of these to see what the damn fuss is about, journo’s raving about the way a heavy 4pot auto 4wd jag handles while on another review they’ll say the engine in a Cayman is lifeless and sounds crap.

Either the XE is really good and better than the competition or journos such as this one are biased towards the Jaguar because it’s british.

My cars is due a change in the next 6 months or so (don’t keep them longer than 2 years) and I do love driving so has anybody driven one of these? Will it sway me away from my 430d?

I’d go in for a test drive but I’ve heard the Jag dealership in Guildford isn’t known for very good customer service and I don’t want to put myself in that position.

[Chestrockwell]

Chestrockwell said:

I really want to drive one of these to see what the damn fuss is about, journo’s raving about the way a heavy 4pot auto 4wd jag handles and praising a mass made economy focused 2.0 that’s shared across all of JLR with effectively a remap while in another review, say the new 2.0/2.5 flat 4 in the new cayman has no soul and sounds crap!

Either the XE is really good and better than the competition or journos such as this one are biased towards the Jaguar because it’s british.

My cars is due a change in the next 6 months or so (don’t keep them longer than 2 years) and I do love driving so has anybody driven one of these? Will it sway me away from my 430d?

My only experience with Jaguar was parking mums friends 2.0 diesel X-Type, visually a nice experience as it is a nice car but.....don’t ask about the way it drove or felt.

I’d go in for a test drive but I’ve heard the Jag dealership in Guildford isn’t known for very good customer service and I don’t want to put myself in that position.

[Futse]

Chestrockwell said:

I really want to drive one of these to see what the damn fuss is about, journo’s raving about the way a heavy 4pot auto 4wd jag handles while on another review they’ll say the engine in a Cayman is lifeless and sounds crap.

Either the XE is really good and better than the competition or journos such as this one are biased towards the Jaguar because it’s british.

My cars is due a change in the next 6 months or so (don’t keep them longer than 2 years) and I do love driving so has anybody driven one of these? Will it sway me away from my 430d?

I’d go in for a test drive but I’ve heard the Jag dealership in Guildford isn’t known for very good customer service and I don’t want to put myself in that position.

If you're so curious, just go and try one. And who knows, maybe the dealership is a nice surprise too...

[herebebeasties]

Onehp said:

Forget that. I've kept an eye on real weight for the Superb 280, a top spec approaches 1800kg and is thus roughly the same weight as the Jaguar (assuming optional equipment also adds to the declared base spec weight). The reason the Superb is roomier is because it's MQB, the engine isn't mounted longitudinally.

http://www.evo.co.uk/skoda/superb/page/0/1 have an L&K 2.0 4x4 at 1540kg. Do you have a source for your 1800kg figure? It's massively over what anyone else quotes.

Is there any site / source where they actually weigh cars independently rather than just regurgitate what the manufacture claims? Car mags used to do this but all seem to have given up. I'd have thought in today's times of economy and fake mpg figures to game EU test cycles it's as important as ever.

The XE is now only built in 4cyl configurations. If they didn't see all that coming and have chosen to package their car less efficiently as a result, consumers aren't going to care about the reasons why.

[swisstoni]

I have a lot of time for Jaguar but the XE is just such a dull thing.
It’s hampered, I think, by having to wear bits that don’t seem to have been designed for it. The taillights look like they have been grafted on from something much more exciting, yet the very sober squareish grille (lifted from the front of the original 60s XJ) is bunged on the front.

[craigjm]

swisstoni said:

I have a lot of time for Jaguar but the XE is just such a dull thing.
It’s hampered, I think, by having to wear bits that don’t seem to have been designed for it. The taillights look like they have been grafted on from something much more exciting, yet the very sober squareish grille (lifted from the front of the original 60s XJ) is bunged on the front.

I agree. The first XF looked amazing next to an Stype and the current XJ just blew the mould and then after that they really just went into expand rapidly and apply the same styling cues across the range so you end up with sports car lights on SUVs etc. The current crop of interiors after the XJ are all dull and boring and they don’t seem to be able to integrate technology as well as others. They are just now launching CarPlay for instance. I am hoping that next years new XJ brings some new excitement to the styling because to me they are in serious danger or moving away from retro pastiche that was a good thing to do but landing in bland homogenous appliance-ville where the only way to stand out is to start adding Max Power style as we see here with the sport embroidering etc. They tried the same with the XJR 575 and while the XJR used to look like a gentleman in a Savile Row suit that could go like usain bolt the new car looks like a Savile Row type gentleman trying to wear an Ali G tracksuit.