How to combat Keyless entry thefts?!
Discussion
jfire said:
Not sure there's a passive system to detect RFID with a radius of the required couple of feet.
I know some keyless start vehicles still have a slot for the fob but I don't know it's that's purely for storage rather than a requirement for detection. Mine is fully keyless, entry and start, and I think the slot may just be for when the fob battery is dead.
The problem with RFID is that it is inherently vulnerable to a man in the middle attack. So having some form of proximity detection (which is likely based on signal strength) is easily defeated by using a repeater (which is how thieves are stealing cars with keyless entry). Such repeaters can be bought off the shelf and require very little modification to be used for this purpose. So basically they'll be available from dodgy electronics shops/Ebay for cheap along with all the other mildly illegal gadgets (like signal jammers).I know some keyless start vehicles still have a slot for the fob but I don't know it's that's purely for storage rather than a requirement for detection. Mine is fully keyless, entry and start, and I think the slot may just be for when the fob battery is dead.
In order to make the system safe (well safe-ish), you need to ensure the code is only sent when the user wants the vehicle unlocked which requires the user to do something, like press a button. Sadly that has become too hard for many people.
RFID is great for non-secure applications, but not for secure ones. This is why I can get into the building with just my swipe card, but need to put in a passcode as well to get into the server room.
IIRC, Didn't Renault or another french manufacture have a keypad for their cars in the early 00's that you could key in a code to unlock your car?
DaveCWK said:
Exactly. A £1 eBay switch & relay randomly positioned under the driver's seat & spliced into something cruical would stop pretty much every thief in his tracks. You don't need anything fancy, just something non-standard.
Yep. I had a Sierra back in the early 90s, and my DIY immobiliser solution was to run the starter solenoid wire through a switch, so the starter wouldn't activate unless it was switched on first. The switch in question was actually a standard Sierra front fog light switch, obtained from a breaker, and installed in the correct place on the dash in lieu of the blanking plate that the car came with (it didn't have front fogs). It could be bypassed in seconds if you knew what to look for, but this was the age of 15 year old joyriders who tended to just move on to the next if there were any issues.I think such solutions are a little more complex and risky on today's CAN bus wired cars though.
[quote=Who me ?]
What is now needed is a secondary system, where any theft using force or electronic means can take car, but where th owner has a secondary RFID device, that is sought by vehicle CPU after five minutes ( as example) of driving car. No secondary signal, then car stops and lights up like xmas tree with horn and alarm.
[/quote]
Does anyone pay attention to alarms?
I thought car alarms were ignored since the 1990s
What is now needed is a secondary system, where any theft using force or electronic means can take car, but where th owner has a secondary RFID device, that is sought by vehicle CPU after five minutes ( as example) of driving car. No secondary signal, then car stops and lights up like xmas tree with horn and alarm.
[/quote]
Does anyone pay attention to alarms?
I thought car alarms were ignored since the 1990s
Dal3D said:
+ Disklok + locked garage + another car parked in front of garage + keys in faraday pouch (incl spares)
blade7 said:
Defcon5 said:
Mattygooner said:
Then you can trade your cair for however many arms/legs/testies the dog kept from the robbers....
zedx19 said:
Amazed people go to this much effort, all you're doing is encouraging someone to smash down your front door and demand you unlock all the security devices. Make it hard but not so hard that they need to threaten/hurt your family for a replaceable metal object that's insured.
I'm amazed people have such vivid fantasies. So Wayne Innit-Bruv is out nicking cars, he gets into your bogo spec Fiesta and realises he cant start it. Will Wayne:A) Go all Rambo, kick down your door, hold your extended family hostage, knee cap your wife and cut off your gran's toes one by one until you remove the padlock from your ODB port... or;
B) Move on to the next car.
I know enough Krav to dominate any method of changing floors (stairs, ladders, paternoster lifts, you name it, I'm it's overlord)... But I'm not worried about a gang of 'ardened crims breaking into take me hostage for my car (Not that I'd go all Jackie Chan mind you, I'd hand over the keys but my point is the chances of me being in that situation are higher than me winning the Euromillions... twice).
As far as my fantasies go, they're a bit more mundane and usually involve someone like Eiza Gonzalez. Stair domination may or may not be involved.
captain_cynic said:
zedx19 said:
Amazed people go to this much effort, all you're doing is encouraging someone to smash down your front door and demand you unlock all the security devices. Make it hard but not so hard that they need to threaten/hurt your family for a replaceable metal object that's insured.
I'm amazed people have such vivid fantasies. So Wayne Innit-Bruv is out nicking cars, he gets into your bogo spec Fiesta and realises he cant start it. Will Wayne:A) Go all Rambo, kick down your door, hold your extended family hostage, knee cap your wife and cut off your gran's toes one by one until you remove the padlock from your ODB port... or;
B) Move on to the next car.
TheAngryDog said:
tbourner said:
Biometrics is the only way. Palm print reader on the B-pillar that opens the door - no need for handles. Makes it a b
h when you have visitors who you don't want to set up as users though 
They'll just chop your hand off.h when you have visitors who you don't want to set up as users though Shakermaker said:
If you leave your keys in the unlocked car it might get nicked? I'll be sure to remember that issue in future.tbourner said:
Shakermaker said:
If you leave your keys in the unlocked car it might get nicked? I'll be sure to remember that issue in future.A humorous story nonetheless.
zedx19 said:
Honestly, what planet are you on? Autowatch even acknowledge it, release an update to patch the flaw and you're calling it a fluke and one off? Unsure if you're even just trolling now or being serious?? If a company releases a security update, they aren't doing it for fun, they are doing it because of a serious flaw and weakness.
I've got a Ghost system on my T6 and my Mustang, I'm quite certain both vehicles are about as secure as you can possibly make them without putting them under armed guard.I'm not worried that a bug/glitch was discovered on a small handful of vehicles, Autowatch specifically write the code for each type of vehicle that the Ghost is fitted to, the glitch was found and was patched.
Apart from the 100,000 people on Pistonheads I've just told (
) nobody would even know my vehicles had a Ghost system fitted, it could be any number of reasons why the vehicles don't start as expected, there's no sign of what security is fitted as Ghost blends in with the factory immobiliser.But of course no security system is 100% foolproof.
otolith said:
blade7 said:
Defcon5 said:
Mattygooner said:
Then you can trade your cair for however many arms/legs/testies the dog kept from the robbers....
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