That's it, I am no longer defending Cyclists!
Discussion
Coolbanana said:
Are they being 'deliberately obstructive' to offend you somehow or are they just exercising their equal right to enjoy using the road? Reading these threads that are predominately anti-cyclist one gets the distinct impression that non-cyclists cannot accept that motorists do not 'own' the road or have greater rights to it.
For example: cyclists can legally ride two-abreast and not have to hug the kerb. They are not being obstructive, they are exercising their equal right to use the road. Just because you might be able to, or want to travel faster does not mean you get priority. It is no different to the hordes of caravans slowing cars down in the Summer - you cannot expect the caravan owners to pull off from the road just to let you speed past. You have to pass when it is safe to do so without affecting the journey made by the cyclists or caravanners.
On the contary you can expect a caravan owner to pull over if they're causing a hold up and you'll see it happen from time to time.For example: cyclists can legally ride two-abreast and not have to hug the kerb. They are not being obstructive, they are exercising their equal right to use the road. Just because you might be able to, or want to travel faster does not mean you get priority. It is no different to the hordes of caravans slowing cars down in the Summer - you cannot expect the caravan owners to pull off from the road just to let you speed past. You have to pass when it is safe to do so without affecting the journey made by the cyclists or caravanners.
It is the concept of 'owning the road' that seems to be leading to some of the issues and we've seen it in photos in previous posts
Yes it is often ok to ride two abreast but if it's causing a hold up, it's no great sweat to revert to single file and help someone pass by keeping left where it's not full of potholes.
There are only a few cyclists that despite all that try to 'own the road' as if it's their's and nobody elses, and leads to threads like this one.
There are numpty motorists too.
Most of the time people get on fine
swisstoni said:
I don’t see too many kids riding bikes. Probably a lot less than when I was young.
I’d not be surprised if we were in the middle (or end) of a blip. A quite vocal and assertive blip, but a blip all the same.
Outside London perhaps, around here they are multiplying at a rate that puts rabbits to shame. I’d not be surprised if we were in the middle (or end) of a blip. A quite vocal and assertive blip, but a blip all the same.
Wish the government would actually bit the bullet and stumped up serious cash to give road cyclists the infrastructure. As it's so dangerous for them, more so with their lack instinct for self preservation/general awareness.
Was chatting to a lady yesterday whose husband has become a mamil, she isn't too comfortable with it.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 22 July 12:09
saaby93 said:
Most of the time people get on fine
Exactly, but admitting it would deprive some of an opportunity for hostility, intellectual dishonesty and general trolling. And perhaps, after all, we should just let them get on with it, which I am quite tempted to do now as the actual cyclist/driver cohabitation is pretty good in reality and doesn't correspond to the impression that those threads give.Coolbanana said:
DonkeyApple said:
It’s all relative in reality. I suspect that in the eyes of the masses you are in the wealthier demographic. Few of us probably consider ourselves to be rich but from the perspective of the majority we are deemed to be.
With the average U.K. salary being 28k, the majority of Britons earn below this level with a very sharp cut off occurring at around the £50k mark.
My view is that part of the anger towards a particular group of road users is based around the economics and the fact that this small group of higher earners are more vulnerable given that they are not hiding away in private clubs for their hobby nor cacooned in cars etc. It’s that very British trait of social divides being played out in many instances.
It is utter nonsense that owning a bicycle puts you in a wealthier demographic to all but the most repressed in India and the like! In the UK, bicycle ownership is not relatively expensive. Have you been to The Netherlands, Scandinavian countries, France, Belgium etc? Bicycles are more prevalent than cars in many areas. It is a truly pathetic mindset in the UK that tries to alienate cyclists as being elite or less 'equal' in terms of road use rights. With the average U.K. salary being 28k, the majority of Britons earn below this level with a very sharp cut off occurring at around the £50k mark.
My view is that part of the anger towards a particular group of road users is based around the economics and the fact that this small group of higher earners are more vulnerable given that they are not hiding away in private clubs for their hobby nor cacooned in cars etc. It’s that very British trait of social divides being played out in many instances.
I have a couple of very nice bikes here in Portugal (Bianchi road, Scott 29'er mtb) but I keep one of these for getting around Amsterdam when I'm there and it's great:
https://www.santafixie.com/en/6ku-evian-2.html
You can get a decent bike for less than 300 euros if you shop around - delivered to your door anywhere in Europe. In the USA, these are $199!
Even the loony politicians in London have woken up to the fact that their cycle super highways for the poor are in fact private lanes for the elite.
And if people don’t think they are in the higher echelons of wealth in society then just wait for Corbyn’s revolution to see which side of the wall you are placed on by the masses.
And let’s stop trying to compare London and other U.K. cities to a single, unique bit of topography and culture in another country. It’s plain stupid and ignorant.
Cycling in the U.K. is a hobby for the affluent. You won’t get the poor onto bikes without beating them with sticks and forcing them and suddenly understanding the blatantly obvious will help cyclists to understand why certain sections of British society take the opportunity to be aggressive towards them.
For want of a clearer analogy, you are walking into a flat roofers pub in top hat and tails and pushing to the front of the bar. What do you think flat roofers are going to do and think?
saaby93 said:
n the contary you can expect a caravan owner to pull over if they're causing a hold up and you'll see it happen from time to time.
From time to time maybe. Not regularly. And certainly not within the half a second of holding a car up that some people on here seem to regard as deliberate obstruction by cyclists.hyphen said:
Outside London perhaps, around here they are multiplying at a rate that puts rabbits to shame.
Wish the government would actually bit the bullet and stumped up serious cash to give road cyclists the infrastructure. As it's so dangerous for them, more so with their lack instinct for self preservation/general awareness.
Was chatting to a lady yesterday whose husband has become a mamil, she isn't too comfortable with it.
She'll probably leave him and get a real man.Wish the government would actually bit the bullet and stumped up serious cash to give road cyclists the infrastructure. As it's so dangerous for them, more so with their lack instinct for self preservation/general awareness.
Was chatting to a lady yesterday whose husband has become a mamil, she isn't too comfortable with it.
DonkeyApple said:
And yet no. It is very clearly, in the U.K. not a past time for the poor. You just need eyes to see that.
Even the loony politicians in London have woken up to the fact that their cycle super highways for the poor are in fact private lanes for the elite.
And if people don’t think they are in the higher echelons of wealth in society then just wait for Corbyn’s revolution to see which side of the wall you are placed on by the masses.
And let’s stop trying to compare London and other U.K. cities to a single, unique bit of topography and culture in another country. It’s plain stupid and ignorant.
Cycling in the U.K. is a hobby for the affluent. You won’t get the poor onto bikes without beating them with sticks and forcing them and suddenly understanding the blatantly obvious will help cyclists to understand why certain sections of British society take the opportunity to be aggressive towards them.
For want of a clearer analogy, you are walking into a flat roofers pub in top hat and tails and pushing to the front of the bar. What do you think flat roofers are going to do and think?
Agreed, the made up reasons for whinging about cyclists on these threads are generally avoiding or ignoring the real reasons behind it.Even the loony politicians in London have woken up to the fact that their cycle super highways for the poor are in fact private lanes for the elite.
And if people don’t think they are in the higher echelons of wealth in society then just wait for Corbyn’s revolution to see which side of the wall you are placed on by the masses.
And let’s stop trying to compare London and other U.K. cities to a single, unique bit of topography and culture in another country. It’s plain stupid and ignorant.
Cycling in the U.K. is a hobby for the affluent. You won’t get the poor onto bikes without beating them with sticks and forcing them and suddenly understanding the blatantly obvious will help cyclists to understand why certain sections of British society take the opportunity to be aggressive towards them.
For want of a clearer analogy, you are walking into a flat roofers pub in top hat and tails and pushing to the front of the bar. What do you think flat roofers are going to do and think?
DonkeyApple said:
And yet no. It is very clearly, in the U.K. not a past time for the poor. You just need eyes to see that.
Even the loony politicians in London have woken up to the fact that their cycle super highways for the poor are in fact private lanes for the elite.
And if people don’t think they are in the higher echelons of wealth in society then just wait for Corbyn’s revolution to see which side of the wall you are placed on by the masses.
And let’s stop trying to compare London and other U.K. cities to a single, unique bit of topography and culture in another country. It’s plain stupid and ignorant.
Cycling in the U.K. is a hobby for the affluent. You won’t get the poor onto bikes without beating them with sticks and forcing them and suddenly understanding the blatantly obvious will help cyclists to understand why certain sections of British society take the opportunity to be aggressive towards them.
For want of a clearer analogy, you are walking into a flat roofers pub in top hat and tails and pushing to the front of the bar. What do you think flat roofers are going to do and think?
Even the loony politicians in London have woken up to the fact that their cycle super highways for the poor are in fact private lanes for the elite.
And if people don’t think they are in the higher echelons of wealth in society then just wait for Corbyn’s revolution to see which side of the wall you are placed on by the masses.
And let’s stop trying to compare London and other U.K. cities to a single, unique bit of topography and culture in another country. It’s plain stupid and ignorant.
Cycling in the U.K. is a hobby for the affluent. You won’t get the poor onto bikes without beating them with sticks and forcing them and suddenly understanding the blatantly obvious will help cyclists to understand why certain sections of British society take the opportunity to be aggressive towards them.
For want of a clearer analogy, you are walking into a flat roofers pub in top hat and tails and pushing to the front of the bar. What do you think flat roofers are going to do and think?
Utter garbage
You are being deliberately stupid with your inane arguments; grow up! 
I have seen kids on bikes aplenty in less affluent areas around the UK. I have seen poorer areas where cycling has been promoted to great effect that has helped locals get from A to B more cost-effectively whilst moving away from the obesity that has been creeping into UK Society.
The fact is, cars are relatively cheap to obtain in Great Britain compared to many other Nations and this has encouraged car commuting even amongst your 'flat roofer' types' rather than the far cheaper alternative, cycling!
Only a moron would suggest cycling costs more than running a car and anyone who can afford a car, can afford a bike.
The UK is NOT a deprived country and its GDP is far higher than most, the average salary in the UK easily affords a bicycle as a health and recreation tool, let alone a commuting one.
hyphen said:
Came across two abreast lycra lads on the road yesterday morning dawdling along, I came up behind them, bipped horn twice lightly to let the fool know and then went around (crossing other side of road). Lycra t
t didn't look too impressed.
My car has bike racks on it btw.
Unnecessary use of the horn and cyclists quite legally riding two abreast on a quiet road.t didn't look too impressed. My car has bike racks on it btw.
Well done cupcake.
Coolbanana said:
Utter garbage
You are being deliberately stupid with your inane arguments; grow up! I have seen kids on bikes aplenty in less affluent areas around the UK. I have seen poorer areas where cycling has been promoted to great effect that has helped locals get from A to B more cost-effectively whilst moving away from the obesity that has been creeping into UK Society.
The fact is, cars are relatively cheap to obtain in Great Britain compared to many other Nations and this has encouraged car commuting even amongst your 'flat roofer' types' rather than the far cheaper alternative, cycling!
Only a moron would suggest cycling costs more than running a car and anyone who can afford a car, can afford a bike.
The UK is NOT a deprived country and its GDP is far higher than most, the average salary in the UK easily affords a bicycle as a health and recreation tool, let alone a commuting one.
But majority are on high spec bikes and lycra'd up.
Garmin watches and gps's are several hundred quid, Strava premium has a monthly subscription.
Then factor in practicality- McDonalds doesn't provide its staff with space to shower or underground bike storage, JP Morgan does.
'kids on bikes in less affluent areas' only use them till they get a moped or car license. Posh kids make use of scenic areas nearby, and roof racks on dad's car for the regular holidays.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 22 July 13:14
hyphen said:
Donkey has a point I'm afraid. Yes you do see the normal folk on the Halfords bike wearing their normal clothes.
But majority are on high spec bikes and lycra'd up.
Garmin watches and gps's are several hundred quid, Strava premium has a monthly subscription.
Then factor in practicality- McDonalds doesn't provide its staff with space to shower or underground bike storage, JP Morgan does.
It's the same mentality as the people who get angry when someone has a nice car then. But majority are on high spec bikes and lycra'd up.
Garmin watches and gps's are several hundred quid, Strava premium has a monthly subscription.
Then factor in practicality- McDonalds doesn't provide its staff with space to shower or underground bike storage, JP Morgan does.
That and you don't need to abide by the rules of the road as much
frisbee said:
Unnecessary use of the horn and cyclists quite legally riding two abreast on a quiet road.
Well done cupcake.
Horn is for warning others of danger.Well done cupcake.
To overtake the slow obstacle in front of me, I was forced to use the lane on the other side.
With vehicles, they have mirrors and so can see me and my indicator, cyclists know little of what is behind them. As with any overtake, there is always an element of risk, I could see all was clear around me, and on a straight, however there is still a chance that with me being on the other side of the road for that short space of time, another road user could do something daft.
Hence the minor and sensible use of the horn.
Cupcake.
hyphen said:
Came across two abreast lycra lads on the road yesterday morning dawdling along, I came up behind them, bipped horn twice lightly to let the fool know and then went around (crossing other side of road). Lycra tt didn't look too impressed.
My car has bike racks on it btw.
So, you came up behind two people on bicycles, doing something legal. Used your horn, then went past them on the other side of the road, as per the recent 1.5m safe pass initiative by various police forces. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/...t didn't look too impressed. My car has bike racks on it btw.
Was their choice of clothing that infuriating to you?
My car doesn’t have bike rack on it btw.
frisbee said:
hyphen said:
Came across two abreast lycra lads on the road yesterday morning dawdling along, I came up behind them, bipped horn twice lightly to let the fool know and then went around (crossing other side of road). Lycra tt didn't look too impressed.
My car has bike racks on it btw.
Unnecessary use of the horn and cyclists quite legally riding two abreast on a quiet road.t didn't look too impressed. My car has bike racks on it btw.
Well done cupcake.
HC Rule 68 You must not ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner
At what point does inconsiderate come into play, and how many times has it (ever) been enforced
DonkeyApple said:
funkyrobot said:
Cycling is not just a hobby for the rich. It's like anything, you can spend a lot of money if you choose to.
I'm not rich and I ride regularly.
With the average U.K. salary being 28k, the majority of Britons earn below this level with a very sharp cut off occurring at around the £50k mark.
My view is that part of the anger towards a particular group of road users is based around the economics and the fact that this small group of higher earners are more vulnerable given that they are not hiding away in private clubs for their hobby nor cacooned in cars etc. It’s that very British trait of social divides being played out in many instances.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
And here is another one- is it/should it be legal for cyclist on the road to be having in depth conversations?
As often that is why the reason that they are 2 or more abreast, as they are chatting away. This, it could be argued, will be reducing their awareness and attention on the road.
As often that is why the reason that they are 2 or more abreast, as they are chatting away. This, it could be argued, will be reducing their awareness and attention on the road.
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