RE: Audi TT S facelift: Driven

[CABC]

mcpoot said:

2Btoo said:

I'm firmly with Yonex and the debate is nothing to do with looks. A four-door compromises the mechanicals into a sub-optimal layout with the engine, gearbox and driven wheels at the front and the engine (usually) some way in front of the front wheels. The rear suspension is similarly compromised to get a large boot with a low loading lip and big cabin space. All is geared around the occupants and luggage at the expense of the driving dynamics, which are 'fine' if you have never experienced anything better.

If you are happy with a compromised number of seats (2), small boot, high loading lip and cramped cabin then you can have a proper longitudinal engine layout, drive to a differential between the rear wheels and RWD, with niceties such as proper wishbone suspension, vertical dampers and a number of other things. All of which makes a vastly much better machine to drive but not as practical to sit in or as good to carry luggage in.

The TT is the worst of both worlds; poor vehicle dynamics as a result of being fundamentally a hatchback layout and poor ergonomics and practicality as a result of being 2 seater with a small boot. However people lap them up as they don't know anything better in terms of quality of drive and they think they are 'sporty'. Why the masses spend their money as they do is a mystery to me but I guess it's theirs to (mis-)spend as they choose.

I'll just ask this question. Have you actually driven or even sat in one?
Poor ergonomics? That's one thing a modern Audi doesn't suffer from.
Lack of practicality is arguable too as the TT is actually a 2+2 so the rear seats fold providing a quite reasonable amount of space.
You drive a Porsche 944, a car designed back in the mid 70's so I'm not sure you're the best judge of vehicle dynamics in the modern era. Many would question your choice of where to spend your money. Maybe you don't realise there is a lot better out there in terms of quality of drive yourself. I know 'sporty' is about more than performance but your old 944 wouldn't see which way a modern hot hatch went.

a lot of hot hatches suffer from pretty poor handling too, though they'll still be fast on a country lane.

[Cloudy147]

E65Ross said:

Yes, the old vs new thing.

Do you post the same drivel when any new Porsche comes out? What about a Bentley? Or Mercedes?

Cars depreciate and manufacturers price their new cars as new, not 2nd hand.

Its not "drivel" really, is it, captain? Its a viewpoint, and one which I felt particularly valid in the case of this model.

The not-too-different used vs new TT is getting on for 10 times the price difference. My question was "is it that much better"?

A new Porsche doesn't cost 10x the price of an older one. And a new Bentley would be noticabley different for interior style, quality and/or comfort than a 10 year old one.

The TT looks pretty similar to me. For 10x the price. Therefore, as a new prospect, it seems overpriced to me. Unless it really is 'that' much better? Maybe it is.

[telecat]

CABC said:

mcpoot said:

2Btoo said:

I'm firmly with Yonex and the debate is nothing to do with looks. A four-door compromises the mechanicals into a sub-optimal layout with the engine, gearbox and driven wheels at the front and the engine (usually) some way in front of the front wheels. The rear suspension is similarly compromised to get a large boot with a low loading lip and big cabin space. All is geared around the occupants and luggage at the expense of the driving dynamics, which are 'fine' if you have never experienced anything better.

If you are happy with a compromised number of seats (2), small boot, high loading lip and cramped cabin then you can have a proper longitudinal engine layout, drive to a differential between the rear wheels and RWD, with niceties such as proper wishbone suspension, vertical dampers and a number of other things. All of which makes a vastly much better machine to drive but not as practical to sit in or as good to carry luggage in.

The TT is the worst of both worlds; poor vehicle dynamics as a result of being fundamentally a hatchback layout and poor ergonomics and practicality as a result of being 2 seater with a small boot. However people lap them up as they don't know anything better in terms of quality of drive and they think they are 'sporty'. Why the masses spend their money as they do is a mystery to me but I guess it's theirs to (mis-)spend as they choose.

I'll just ask this question. Have you actually driven or even sat in one?
Poor ergonomics? That's one thing a modern Audi doesn't suffer from.
Lack of practicality is arguable too as the TT is actually a 2+2 so the rear seats fold providing a quite reasonable amount of space.
You drive a Porsche 944, a car designed back in the mid 70's so I'm not sure you're the best judge of vehicle dynamics in the modern era. Many would question your choice of where to spend your money. Maybe you don't realise there is a lot better out there in terms of quality of drive yourself. I know 'sporty' is about more than performance but your old 944 wouldn't see which way a modern hot hatch went.

a lot of hot hatches suffer from pretty poor handling too, though they'll still be fast on a country lane.

It's a nice car to sit in but it's Packaging isn't the best. I suspect My Son and his girlfriend both being the best part of Six foot would struggle to get in the back and their luggage? Forget it. It also for that money needed to be more than a good engine and pretty face. Basically it's very expensive and can't justify the price unless the looks are the priority.

[HighwayStar]

cerb4.5lee said:

F1GTRUeno said:

Can't comment on the TTS but a family member does have a standard 2.0 TT that I use fairly often.

It's a lovely place to be but it's the first time I've ever driven a car and believed what magazine/test drivers say about 'feel' and about a car's steering being 'numb'.

it's an incredibly odd car to drive.

As something to just travel in it's very nice but I've thought about taking it down to the triangle or any other nice roads around Wales and I'm really not sure I'd feel comfortable in it. Like it says in this, it's not exactly confidence inspiring.

The mk2 TTS I had was just like how you describe, the steering feel was none existent and even though it had 4wd it didn't give you any confidence going quickly around corners.

I did like the looks/interior/performance alot though. I really like the shape of this current one, and I always think they look good out on the road when I see them.

I also had a MK TTS... I really liked the look of it too but... I knew exactly what I was buying. It was a nice place to be. Comfortable, ease to live with and flexible... fold the back seats down and there was plenty of room for stuff, luggage or a tip run.
The triangle. I did 3 days in Wales in it one year. Well we did that and other nice roads we found. It was bloody fast too but as you guys have mentioned, it gave you nothing back... Masses of grip, it was the only time I really felt the drive moving, bring the rear into play. No fun though. Nothing from the steering. It just wasn't exciting. It's faster than a lot of things out there but simply going fast doesn't do it for me. There was no drama with it, it doesn't give you and immersive experience. Just efficiency. I test drove the MK3 TTS, that's even faster, an even better, even more efficient and I felt even more detached... it wasn't for me.
I CAN see why they get bought though... they look good, interior and tech is done really nicely and if you think that's what a sports car is, happy days.
I went for a 981 CS instead.

Edited by HighwayStar on Friday 20th July 14:45

[Shiv_P]

telecat said:

It's a nice car to sit in but it's Packaging isn't the best. I suspect My Son and his girlfriend both being the best part of Six foot would struggle to get in the back and their luggage? Forget it. It also for that money needed to be more than a good engine and pretty face. Basically it's very expensive and can't justify the price unless the looks are the priority.

It can justify it - they sell. It has the best interior of pretty much any coupe, it looks good, sounds OK and goes well. It isn't as dynamically finished as a 718 etc etc but you must be able to see why people buy them.