Are German cars still cool?
Discussion
Growing up in the 80s/90s, when Fords, Vauxhalls, Austins/Rovers, Peugeots and Renaults seemed to dominate UK roads, German cars seemed a lot more scarce and were quite cool and aspirational. German engineering and build quality were superior and without the proliferation of cheap finance deals that we have now, you had to be pretty wealthy to own a German car. My dad owned a mk2 Polo back in the 1980s and aspired to own a Golf but at the time, they were just too out of reach. Even when me and my friends started driving in the late 1990s, the kids with wealthy parents drove mk2 Golfs, whereas the less wealthy kids or the ones that paid for their own cars had Fiestas/Metros. Now though thanks to competitive finance/lease deals and higher volumes, a Golf is just as affordable as any of the other small car alternatives.
Then of course, you had the E30/E34/E32-series BMWs and even to a lesser extent the E46/E39/E38s, the aerodynamic B3/B4 Audi 80/90 and C3 Audi 100/200, as featured in SOTW and of course the first generation of A-series cars with their simple and elegant Bauhaus styling. Were Mercedes cool back then? I'm not so sure. Those older Mercedes are cool now in a boxy, over-engineered kind of way but in their day, they tended to appeal to an older demographic, although the original SLK, CLK and R230 SL certainly helped Mercedes to appeal to a younger audience.
For sure, the Germans still make some nice cars but with the Golf now out-selling the Focus/Astra and the A-Class/C-Class being more prolific than many of their non-premium competitors, do they still hold the same "cool" factor that exclusivity and their premium price used to garner?
Looking at current offerings, I would have to say that in my opinion, they have mostly lost that "cool" factor but perhaps some models still manage to pull it off.
Audi: A5, A7 and S1 maybe? A5 has to be the best-looking saloon-based coupe out there and the S1 is a pretty unique proposition in its class. Perhaps the S4 Avant but the RS models are a little in your face now compared to the original RS2/RS4/RS6 models. Does the A1 manage to pull it off? A premium-badged supermini certainly has appeal and I'm surprised that BMW and Mercedes haven't got in on the act but I guess that they have MINI and Smart for that respectively. It does look a little weird though, although the new A1 looks significantly better in my opinion.
BMW: M cars and i3/i8 maybe? In my opinion, the 6-Series Gran Coupe is still one of the best-looking cars on the road.
Mercedes: Not really, a bit too bling but maybe the V8-engined AMG saloon/estate models have a bit more subtlety and class?
VW: Golf still the class benchmark but has its massive popularity lost its more exclusive cool factor? Golf GTI still maybe, as it's one of the few hot hatches that still has some class and appeals to a universal crowd and as such, doesn't need to compete in the willy-waving stakes as most of the hot hatches do. The Up too is a pretty cool little city car with the right badge if you don't want something retro-styled. The Transporter is probably still the coolest van but that isn't really saying much!
Porsche: At a push, maybe a simply-specced 911 Carrera/Carrera S but that still has nothing on a 928 and despite being a very good car, it's still kind of the default, predictable choice in its class.
So, despite their massive popularity, has the bubble burst and are German cars no longer the "cool" aspirational choice that they were 20 years ago and if they're not then what has filled that void?
Then of course, you had the E30/E34/E32-series BMWs and even to a lesser extent the E46/E39/E38s, the aerodynamic B3/B4 Audi 80/90 and C3 Audi 100/200, as featured in SOTW and of course the first generation of A-series cars with their simple and elegant Bauhaus styling. Were Mercedes cool back then? I'm not so sure. Those older Mercedes are cool now in a boxy, over-engineered kind of way but in their day, they tended to appeal to an older demographic, although the original SLK, CLK and R230 SL certainly helped Mercedes to appeal to a younger audience.
For sure, the Germans still make some nice cars but with the Golf now out-selling the Focus/Astra and the A-Class/C-Class being more prolific than many of their non-premium competitors, do they still hold the same "cool" factor that exclusivity and their premium price used to garner?
Looking at current offerings, I would have to say that in my opinion, they have mostly lost that "cool" factor but perhaps some models still manage to pull it off.
Audi: A5, A7 and S1 maybe? A5 has to be the best-looking saloon-based coupe out there and the S1 is a pretty unique proposition in its class. Perhaps the S4 Avant but the RS models are a little in your face now compared to the original RS2/RS4/RS6 models. Does the A1 manage to pull it off? A premium-badged supermini certainly has appeal and I'm surprised that BMW and Mercedes haven't got in on the act but I guess that they have MINI and Smart for that respectively. It does look a little weird though, although the new A1 looks significantly better in my opinion.
BMW: M cars and i3/i8 maybe? In my opinion, the 6-Series Gran Coupe is still one of the best-looking cars on the road.
Mercedes: Not really, a bit too bling but maybe the V8-engined AMG saloon/estate models have a bit more subtlety and class?
VW: Golf still the class benchmark but has its massive popularity lost its more exclusive cool factor? Golf GTI still maybe, as it's one of the few hot hatches that still has some class and appeals to a universal crowd and as such, doesn't need to compete in the willy-waving stakes as most of the hot hatches do. The Up too is a pretty cool little city car with the right badge if you don't want something retro-styled. The Transporter is probably still the coolest van but that isn't really saying much!
Porsche: At a push, maybe a simply-specced 911 Carrera/Carrera S but that still has nothing on a 928 and despite being a very good car, it's still kind of the default, predictable choice in its class.
So, despite their massive popularity, has the bubble burst and are German cars no longer the "cool" aspirational choice that they were 20 years ago and if they're not then what has filled that void?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 20th July 17:29
white_goodman said:
Looking at current offerings, I would have to say that in my opinion, they have mostly lost that "cool" factor but perhaps some models still manage to pull it off.
There y'go. Question answered.Or do you really care about the opinions of others more than your own opinion?
Audi were cool for about a year c.2002.
BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
TooMany2cvs said:
There y'go. Question answered.
Or do you really care about the opinions of others more than your own opinion?
Do I care to the point where it would influence my decision to buy one? No, but yeah, I'm interested to hear other PHers opinions. There's been a pretty big shift in the last 20 years in UK new car buying habits to the point where the old favourites (Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Renault etc) struggle to sell some of their larger, more expensive vehicles in significant numbers and in some cases have discontinued them all together (Laguna and Accord for instance). Yes, people are buying more SUVs/crossovers but 3-Series/A4/C-Class are still selling well despite being more expensive than Mondeo/Insignia/508 etc and many of those cars are comparable and often better in terms of quality and reliability in reality.Or do you really care about the opinions of others more than your own opinion?
Interesting point on Kia/Hyundai. In my experience in recent years, they are offering comparable quality and reliability to the Japanese, class-leading warranties, very high levels of equipment and tech and I've also been in Kias with interiors that compare very favourably to the Germans. Just not much to get the enthusiast in me excited to date but cars like the i30N and Stinger are starting to change that and ironically, the Stinger has the exclusivity that an Audi/BMW/Mercedes lacks!
Corrado VR6. Cool. Golf R. Uncool.
993. Cool. 997. Uncool.
Audi Quattro. Cool. Audi R8. Also cool.
BMW 2002 Turbo. Cool. BMW M3. Uncool.
Mercedes Cosworth. Cool. Mercedes C63. Uncool.
Opinions will vary, but to me, mine suggests most Germans aren't cool any more. And I've got one! And it's not.
R8s will always be cool to me, I've got a bit of a blind spot for them! Unless they're convertibles. Then the deal's off.
993. Cool. 997. Uncool.
Audi Quattro. Cool. Audi R8. Also cool.
BMW 2002 Turbo. Cool. BMW M3. Uncool.
Mercedes Cosworth. Cool. Mercedes C63. Uncool.
Opinions will vary, but to me, mine suggests most Germans aren't cool any more. And I've got one! And it's not.
R8s will always be cool to me, I've got a bit of a blind spot for them! Unless they're convertibles. Then the deal's off.
Never thought German cars were cool growing up. Aspirational yes, but not cool.
Now I'd say they are neither as they are everywhere and are just another car.
That said there are pockets of cool for me personally. BMW i3 and i8 are quite cool and some of the Mercedes and Porsche products are still very aspirational to my eye. Audi's look really nice, but aren't cool (apart from R8). VW, for the most part are the opposite of cool (Scirocco, Beetle and T-Roc the exception ). New Golfs, especially white ones, have gained a terrible reputation in my motorway experience. The new 'Audi driver'.
Now I'd say they are neither as they are everywhere and are just another car.
That said there are pockets of cool for me personally. BMW i3 and i8 are quite cool and some of the Mercedes and Porsche products are still very aspirational to my eye. Audi's look really nice, but aren't cool (apart from R8). VW, for the most part are the opposite of cool (Scirocco, Beetle and T-Roc the exception ). New Golfs, especially white ones, have gained a terrible reputation in my motorway experience. The new 'Audi driver'.
I don't think that there is an absolute definition of cool, it will only ever be an opinion. So, in my opinion, coolness is elegant, understated and conciously designed as a whole rather than merely styled. On that basis very few German cars clear the hurdle. Perhaps the last cool Audi was the A2 and possibly the original TT, the current crop are too much in-your-face to be ever considered to be cool. The Bangle BMWs were generally cool, especially the early Z4; the flame-surfacing elements were influenced by some pretty cool modern architecture. I think that everything since has become too bloated to be even remotely cool. The only cool cars Mercedes have ever made have been either coupes or convertibles, from the Pagoda SLs to the current SLK (I was following one today and it definitely passed the Case Cool Count test 
)
Does the typical owner affect coolness too? Bentleys seem to have gone in a couple of generations from ice-cool to tacky. is it the design or just guilt by association? I have a suspicion it might well be the latter, which would be unfortunate
)Does the typical owner affect coolness too? Bentleys seem to have gone in a couple of generations from ice-cool to tacky. is it the design or just guilt by association? I have a suspicion it might well be the latter, which would be unfortunate
The German manufacturers were all cool and part of that was because they were rare, unobtainable, too expensive; and then to expand their market and make more money the manufacturers started working with the fleet hire companies. From the late nineties you'd have bell ends driving cars they didn't own up your arse on the motorway which took some of the shine off them, then PCP finance happened and everyone could own one which made them a bit less special.
They were never really cool except maybe the original Golf GTI, the BMW 3.0CSL, 2002 Turbo and maybe one or two others.
They are Germanic and used to have some rarity or exclusivity. Now, they are like Cortinas and anyone can get a lease deal without necessarily having the kudos of being able to actually buy one.
I think safety legislation makes it difficult for any modern car to be cool. A Challenger Hellcat is cool.
They are Germanic and used to have some rarity or exclusivity. Now, they are like Cortinas and anyone can get a lease deal without necessarily having the kudos of being able to actually buy one.
I think safety legislation makes it difficult for any modern car to be cool. A Challenger Hellcat is cool.
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 20th July 08:20
Kierkegaard said:
Audi were cool for about a year c.2002.
BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
I’d say that this sums it up nicely. Although Audi made some cool cars up to mid 90s. Mid 70s to about 1990 they made some great cars. BMW were cool pre-bangle.
Mercedes were cool from 1950-1995.
Porsche were cool pre-watercool
VW were cool pre-emissiongate.
as an addition..
Volvo are now cool...apparently.
Alfa Romeo have always been cool.
Aston Martin were cool until they started selling a Toyota supermini.
Jaguar...it's complicated. Cool, but several non-cool Jaguars to list..
“Tell Charles I’m on my way - Taxi!”
...but no, German cars are no longer cool. They are homogeneous white goods available to the masses.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 20th July 07:11
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