Dumb question - when do you use N in an auto?
Discussion
hyphen said:
A long time to be pressing the brake pedal when sat at a level crossing...
And light bulbs are always a b
h to change, so the less used the better 
Push brake pedal hard, the merc will hold on the brakes until you apply throttle. And light bulbs are always a b
h to change, so the less used the better Brake lights are LED.
(I’d select park at a level crossing. I’d probably kill the engine as well. Unless it was really hot and I wanted aircon)
Matthen said:
Pommy said:
Matthen said:
Pommy said:
buggalugs said:
My torque converter auto uses about half as much fuel at idle in N as D, also the idle is a bit quieter. So I tend to knock it to N if I'm stopped for more than a few seconds.
I do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
What a load of bI do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
ks." if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time"
This is just nonsense.
What bits?
Half as much fuel in N as in D? What like half a pipettes drop worth.
Half a pipette is 5ml of which in a 60 litre tank would equatte to 120,000 'pipettes' worth. You could be sat standing 20 times a day every day at traffic lights and it would take 6000 days or 16 years for you to get the benefit of saving 1 tank of fuel, or at £90 a tank or about 1 penny a day, if that.
If it takes 2 seconds for every D to N to D movement and you spend 40 seconds a day, or 4 hours a year to save £3.65 - or 91p an hour, or over 16 years you spend 64 hours to save £90.
You basically spend the equivalent of a week and a half of your life extra at work for £90.
Keep it in D unless you are stopped for a long time, in which case put it in P and / or turn the engine off.
buggalugs said:
Pommy said:
buggalugs said:
My torque converter auto uses about half as much fuel at idle in N as D, also the idle is a bit quieter. So I tend to knock it to N if I'm stopped for more than a few seconds.
I do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
What a load of bI do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
ks." if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time"
This is just nonsense.
What bits?
Half as much fuel in N as in D? What like half a pipettes drop worth.
Fuel - 0.2 gal/hr vs 0.4 gal/hr it works out to roughly £1/hr difference when idling in my car, not that I'd bothered to work it out prior to the arrival of your curmudgeonliness, I just like to think about what I'm doing when I'm driving, I can get pleasure from driving efficiently just as I can from stringing a good set of corners together, which when you follow it through often ends up being the same thing.
I thought the use of the word b
ks was a bit strong for an opening argument, especially one with as little substance as yours.ks because youre asserting some sort of truth over random guessed factsIts worth pointing put that youre presuming someone who doesnt use their handbrake in an auto also doesnt use it when they stop the journey fully and turn off their car. This conversation was purely about stopping temporarily and putting it on.
'Most' cars (and i give credence to it of course varies) use about 0.7L/hr when idling or about 0.15 Gallons and this might be at 500-850 rpm. When Auto are in D but sat still, guess what, they arent at DOUBLE the idle rpm.
Most of my Autos, and have had a fair few, generally idled around 500-850 rpm - they didnt start winding up to 1700 rpm in D whilst i was just sat on the brake.
There is nothing greatly efficient either time wise or economics wise about shifting from D to N to D. If anything youre probably putting extra wear on the mechanical moving parts of your gearbox.
So in summary:
You dont save any real money moving into Neutral when stood still
You spend more time undertaking an action than is needed.
Your handbrake wont rust out
Youll likely add a little but of extra wear on your gearbox
Youll achieve NOTHING.
Its jusy utter nonsense this assertion that this is 'the correct and efficient'way.
Edited by Pommy on Monday 23 July 00:05
Just got my first auto and this annoys me
Holding it in D with the footbrake gets annoying after a while, sometimes you want to rest your foot.
Mine has start/stop that cuts the engine as soon as you stop and starts it when you release the footbrake.
It also starts as soon as you put it in N
The easiest thing seems to be to put it in P if waiting for any length of time e.g. 4-phase traffic lights.
I couldn't care less about components wearing out because it's a two-year lease
I couldn't care less about fuel use because I found 20p on the pavement the other week and that will cover me for any difference in consumption while stopped in different gear positions for the rest of my life.
Holding it in D with the footbrake gets annoying after a while, sometimes you want to rest your foot.
Mine has start/stop that cuts the engine as soon as you stop and starts it when you release the footbrake.
It also starts as soon as you put it in N
The easiest thing seems to be to put it in P if waiting for any length of time e.g. 4-phase traffic lights.
I couldn't care less about components wearing out because it's a two-year lease
I couldn't care less about fuel use because I found 20p on the pavement the other week and that will cover me for any difference in consumption while stopped in different gear positions for the rest of my life.
I’ve driven around 400,000 miles in Automatics,going from Accords,Mondeo’s,75’s,CLS,Discovery’s ( and “no” I’m not a sales rep, I just buy them as secondhand mile munchers). The only car I ever put in neutral was the Granturismo Mc Shift because it’s effectively a manual automated clutch.Every single other car I’ve just had it in Drive with the foot on the brake in traffic, (unless it’s an extended delay or brake lights on the driver behind might be an issue) In all those miles and differing cars I’ve not had one gearbox problem ...ever.
The Disco has now done 190,000 miles,had 2 gearbox oil changes and swaps seamlessly and as smooth as when I bought it with 18k miles on.
Christ what a load of pseudo intellectual nonsense being spouted in here.
The Disco has now done 190,000 miles,had 2 gearbox oil changes and swaps seamlessly and as smooth as when I bought it with 18k miles on.
Christ what a load of pseudo intellectual nonsense being spouted in here.
Edited by sjc on Monday 23 July 12:11
This thread is hilarious
The handbook will tell you when to use N, D, P for thos giving sage advice and winks etc about saving brakelights etc, if you dont like it then a) learn how the drivetrain works and b) go tell the manufacturer
In my car the book explicitly states to keep in D with foot on brake when waiting at a junction, its a torque converter so no additional wear is occuring. End of
The handbook will tell you when to use N, D, P for thos giving sage advice and winks etc about saving brakelights etc, if you dont like it then a) learn how the drivetrain works and b) go tell the manufacturer
In my car the book explicitly states to keep in D with foot on brake when waiting at a junction, its a torque converter so no additional wear is occuring. End of
Pommy said:
buggalugs said:
Pommy said:
buggalugs said:
My torque converter auto uses about half as much fuel at idle in N as D, also the idle is a bit quieter. So I tend to knock it to N if I'm stopped for more than a few seconds.
I do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
What a load of bI do the same as that other chap too when parking its N, handbrake on to take the strain then P, no point having strain through the drivetrain when they when to the trouble of putting bakes on the wheels, also if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time.
ks." if you never use the handbrake when the car's a few years old there's a fair change you'll end up having to replace bits at MOT time"
This is just nonsense.
What bits?
Half as much fuel in N as in D? What like half a pipettes drop worth.
Fuel - 0.2 gal/hr vs 0.4 gal/hr it works out to roughly £1/hr difference when idling in my car, not that I'd bothered to work it out prior to the arrival of your curmudgeonliness, I just like to think about what I'm doing when I'm driving, I can get pleasure from driving efficiently just as I can from stringing a good set of corners together, which when you follow it through often ends up being the same thing.
I thought the use of the word b
ks was a bit strong for an opening argument, especially one with as little substance as yours.ks because youre asserting some sort of truth over random guessed factsIts worth pointing put that youre presuming someone who doesnt use their handbrake in an auto also doesnt use it when they stop the journey fully and turn off their car. This conversation was purely about stopping temporarily and putting it on.
'Most' cars (and i give credence to it of course varies) use about 0.7L/hr when idling or about 0.15 Gallons and this might be at 500-850 rpm. When Auto are in D but sat still, guess what, they arent at DOUBLE the idle rpm.
Most of my Autos, and have had a fair few, generally idled around 500-850 rpm - they didnt start winding up to 1700 rpm in D whilst i was just sat on the brake.
Edited by Pommy on Monday 23 July 00:05
Bought my first auto a few weeks ago (ZF8) - The salesman reckons you should stick it in P when at the lights, I've been doing this without the handbrake as well as simply leaving it in D with the footbrake for shorter stops. Anybody with a ZF8 wanna chime in with what they do and why? Be interested to find out...
S9JTO said:
Bought my first auto a few weeks ago (ZF8) - The salesman reckons you should stick it in P when at the lights, I've been doing this without the handbrake as well as simply leaving it in D with the footbrake for shorter stops. Anybody with a ZF8 wanna chime in with what they do and why? Be interested to find out...
No point, as said above "park" is exactly for that the moment in which you are parked, not moving again. It should not be used when waiting in traffic, if you get involved in an accident then it could kiss good bye to the gearbox if damaged. Equally the way you are doing it the parking pawl is taking all the strain of the car.Personally I do not see an issue with using Drive and Auto Hold which is what I do in 90% of cases. As AH will hold the car until the throttle is pushed, parking brake (handbrake) is on or gearbox changed into Park.
Regarding start stop I do not actually know, but drive, AH and start stop work perfectly.
I think the fact that BMW in F series cars did not have it automatically on as odd. But in the newer G series car AH is on from the start of the car.
I suppose I do similar to a few others on here I try to remember to do the parking pawl last so in effect there is minimal strain on that one component to hold the car. For me it is usually at minimum being held on the footbrake and change over to the EPB.
Ninja59 said:
No point, as said above "park" is exactly for that the moment in which you are parked, not moving again. It should not be used when waiting in traffic, if you get involved in an accident then it could kiss good bye to the gearbox if damaged. Equally the way you are doing it the parking pawl is taking all the strain of the car.
Personally I do not see an issue with using Drive and Auto Hold which is what I do in 90% of cases. As AH will hold the car until the throttle is pushed, parking brake (handbrake) is on or gearbox changed into Park.
Regarding start stop I do not actually know, but drive, AH and start stop work perfectly.
I think the fact that BMW in F series cars did not have it automatically on as odd. But in the newer G series car AH is on from the start of the car.
I suppose I do similar to a few others on here I try to remember to do the parking pawl last so in effect there is minimal strain on that one component to hold the car. For me it is usually at minimum being held on the footbrake and change over to the EPB.
I tried sticking the car in neutral at lights earlier with both footbrake and handbrake, it turns the engine back on when start/stop was active, this to me suggests it shouldn't be used when stand still, otherwise the start/stop would remain active or kick in if it wasn't active previously.Personally I do not see an issue with using Drive and Auto Hold which is what I do in 90% of cases. As AH will hold the car until the throttle is pushed, parking brake (handbrake) is on or gearbox changed into Park.
Regarding start stop I do not actually know, but drive, AH and start stop work perfectly.
I think the fact that BMW in F series cars did not have it automatically on as odd. But in the newer G series car AH is on from the start of the car.
I suppose I do similar to a few others on here I try to remember to do the parking pawl last so in effect there is minimal strain on that one component to hold the car. For me it is usually at minimum being held on the footbrake and change over to the EPB.
When simply holding the footbrake with and without the handbrake the start/stop system works as expected and turns off as soon as I let my foot off the brake, surely this must be the correct way by design?
I don't see what is mechanically wrong with using park after coming to a complete stop, waiting until the start/stop has kicked in and then moving to park?
E36Dan said:
EarlOfHazard said:
"Put it in H!"
I shift into N when at the lights or coasting towards them. It doesn't feel great on the car to be holding D on the footbrake.
Have a look at the wavy hands guy video above, he explains exactly what wear you are causing when shifting into N or whatever.
There have been billions of automatic cars sold in the US. 99.9% of them have been driven with no regard to the handbook or instruction. 99.95% of them remain in D for the entire length of their journey. (Unless needing R). 99.99% of them do 150,000 miles or more without transmission problems. All this shifting from D to N and back again is not required. Coasting in N is really not a good idea. If you have a conventional torque converting auto, leave it in D folks. If you have a DSG/SMG/TLA read the handbook.
(Some, if not all of these statistics are made up, but you get the gist).
(Some, if not all of these statistics are made up, but you get the gist).
jamei303 said:
Why are people worrying about wear to the gearbox? Do you avoid using the handbrake in case it wears out? How about the steering wheel? Best to avoid turning it to avoid damage to the bearings?
This is just a wild stab in the dark but perhaps it's due to the possible huge cost of a repair to an abused automatic gearbox compared to the relatively tiny cost of a new set of brake pads / shoes?
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