Am I a heretic? I just don't like hot-hatches
Discussion
zedx19 said:
V8RX7 said:
As always it depends what you're comparing it with.
I once criticized a 2CV, it's owner was very defensive stating it was a wonderful car - I asked what other cars she'd owned / driven
"none"
I can compare it directly to numerous cars I've driven and owned. How about a Clio Williams, 306 GTI-6, Clio 16v, Clio 172, Megane R26, Clio 200, Civic Type R, Clio V6, mk5 Golf GTi, R5 GTT to name a few off the top of my head. Out of all them the one that comes closest to the fun the ST delivers is the GTi-6I once criticized a 2CV, it's owner was very defensive stating it was a wonderful car - I asked what other cars she'd owned / driven
"none"
Doesn't really matter what I'm comparing though does it? I smile everytime I drive it which is all that matters surely?
I suppose if you are a proponent of ignorance is bliss then it doesn't matter - on a car forum I thought the idea was to spread information based on wide experience otherwise we'd all still be driving the Model T
Nanook said:
SidewaysSi said:
Totally agree. But most people who think hot hatches are amazing and they are driving Gods would probably crash a Caterham within 5 minutes. Particularly if the road is wet...
.
Modern hot hatches like most cars flatter the driver which is what most people really want. Having a car that forces them to think, learn and over time raise their game isn't of interest.
I love your generalisations, they're hilarious. Stupid, but hilarious..Modern hot hatches like most cars flatter the driver which is what most people really want. Having a car that forces them to think, learn and over time raise their game isn't of interest.
Modern cars have all stepped up in the power and grip stakes with TC, stability control etc which will enhance the feeling that the driver is a better driver than they actually are.
Just depends what you want,I still like to drive 90's cars as I feel with modern cars you have to be going to quick to enjoy yourself.
M4CK 1 said:
Modern cars have all stepped up in the power and grip stakes with TC, stability control etc which will enhance the feeling that the driver is a better driver than they actually are.
Just depends what you want,I still like to drive 90's cars as I feel with modern cars you have to be going to quick to enjoy yourself.
I seem to remember people having the same rose tinted view of 80s cars in the 90s, and I daresay 70s cars in the 80s.Just depends what you want,I still like to drive 90's cars as I feel with modern cars you have to be going to quick to enjoy yourself.
Every generation of cars has some quality or other that upsets enthusiasts of the previous generation. It's nothing new.
Isn't that the truth ...I suspect the popularity of ,especially, early 90s hatches says more about the average age of the PH demographic than anything else . Being ancient, my view is they were fine but not as much fun as a 205GTi and I'd rather punt an Alfasud Ti than most things , even though my vintage suggests a Cooper S .
But I'd take an Elan over anything with more than 2 doors ...
But I'd take an Elan over anything with more than 2 doors ...
Nanook said:
He's not right. If he was, you'd be able to back that up with something, anything at all.
Hot hatches are generally bought by people that needs that mix of speed, value, and practicality. They're not bought because they're 'safe to drive'. At least, I've never heard that uttered before, and never seen any evidence that backs it up, other than nonsense internet hyperbole.
Sorry they are safe and almost all of them neutral to drive to boot. Hot hatches are generally bought by people that needs that mix of speed, value, and practicality. They're not bought because they're 'safe to drive'. At least, I've never heard that uttered before, and never seen any evidence that backs it up, other than nonsense internet hyperbole.
Anyone who thinks they make them driving letharios is mistaken
Years ago when I first passed I had a Fiesta ST150 which was absolutely brilliant but then I thought I needed something faster and more fun.
So I bought a 350z which I absolutely loved, but again I thought I needed something faster and more fun...this led me to an Impreza WRX which was superb. Then I started wanting something different once more, I was always chasing that fun factor and this led me back to a hot hatch.
Now I am in an EP3 Type R and it is the most fun car I've owned, I finally feel like I have found what I was looking for in my previous cars. Sure it's not the quickest, but that's part of why it is so fun. If you asked me out of the cars I have owned which one I'd take the keys for a blast on a B road, it would be the Type R every time.
Obviously I can't comment on cars I've not driven or owned, but I would certainly consider another (good) hot hatch if I wanted something else.
So I bought a 350z which I absolutely loved, but again I thought I needed something faster and more fun...this led me to an Impreza WRX which was superb. Then I started wanting something different once more, I was always chasing that fun factor and this led me back to a hot hatch.
Now I am in an EP3 Type R and it is the most fun car I've owned, I finally feel like I have found what I was looking for in my previous cars. Sure it's not the quickest, but that's part of why it is so fun. If you asked me out of the cars I have owned which one I'd take the keys for a blast on a B road, it would be the Type R every time.
Obviously I can't comment on cars I've not driven or owned, but I would certainly consider another (good) hot hatch if I wanted something else.
Limpet said:
M4CK 1 said:
Modern cars have all stepped up in the power and grip stakes with TC, stability control etc which will enhance the feeling that the driver is a better driver than they actually are.
Just depends what you want,I still like to drive 90's cars as I feel with modern cars you have to be going to quick to enjoy yourself.
I seem to remember people having the same rose tinted view of 80s cars in the 90s, and I daresay 70s cars in the 80s.Just depends what you want,I still like to drive 90's cars as I feel with modern cars you have to be going to quick to enjoy yourself.
Every generation of cars has some quality or other that upsets enthusiasts of the previous generation. It's nothing new.
Nanook said:
Everyone seems to have a 'sweet spot' in terms of age, that unsurprisingly tends to correspond with what sort of cars were about when they were learning to drive and really getting into cars.
this always comes up just as these threads disintegrate. there's an element of truth to it for sure. There's some rose tint as well as valid objective argument.
i'll say: modern cars are fat and too easy to drive for fun, but are very comfortable. my favourite driving cars would certainly include many moderns: Elise, Caterham, MX5, 458, McLaren (and the very latest seems to be the best too). Even Hyundai seems to be bringing the true GTi spirit back. And i'd include the GT86 too, despite tractor engine.
Nanook said:
SidewaysSi said:
Totally agree. But most people who think hot hatches are amazing and they are driving Gods would probably crash a Caterham within 5 minutes. Particularly if the road is wet....
Modern hot hatches like most cars flatter the driver which is what most people really want. Having a car that forces them to think, learn and over time raise their game isn't of interest.
I love your generalisations, they're hilarious. Stupid, but hilarious..Modern hot hatches like most cars flatter the driver which is what most people really want. Having a car that forces them to think, learn and over time raise their game isn't of interest.
skyrover said:
They do nothing for me.
RWD coupes, saloons, estates and proper body on frame 4x4's are the only vehicles that interest me
Nobody has said there's anything wrong with the above. But don't dismiss a good hot hatch by looks and size alone until you've driven one properly. They can be more exciting, on the right road than a rwd. RWD coupes, saloons, estates and proper body on frame 4x4's are the only vehicles that interest me
M4CK 1 said:
skyrover said:
They do nothing for me.
RWD coupes, saloons, estates and proper body on frame 4x4's are the only vehicles that interest me
Nobody has said there's anything wrong with the above. But don't dismiss a good hot hatch by looks and size alone until you've driven one properly. They can be more exciting, on the right road than a rwd. RWD coupes, saloons, estates and proper body on frame 4x4's are the only vehicles that interest me
coppice said:
Olivera said:
Hot hatches are great, everyday usable cars with reasonable mpg, but with a good turn of pace and decent handling when the opportunity arises.
In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
They are really not , believe me. Hot hatches are obviously supremely well developed , very quick and seem to have no downsides. But they really do - they are compromised as they have to do lots of different things , they are often much too big and heavy (whatever the 0-60 time, which adolescents think is the main metric ) , they are ubiquitous and ,ultimately , they are just specced up versions of the car your sister uses to pick up the kids from school . I have never owned or driven one which made driving it for its own sake appealing. In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
That may be just me , but when I could afford a toy like a Seven I lost interest in hot hatches almost completely. And of course a Golf R would demolish any Seven (or at least any Seven driven by me ) on a wet and/ or bumpy road but so what ? Speed per se is a factor but far from the whole equation. It is about driver involvement , sense of occasion , rawness and lack of electronic safety nets. I've got up at 4am and driven 500 miles in a Seven because I could , and it was unforgettable. In a Type R (etc ) I'd get there quicker, in more comfort , use less fuel and forget the journey within a week ...
Ahbefive said:
Thr mk2 focus ST is a great car by pretty much any measure.
Except desirability (to me).Just another anonymous hatchback.
M4CK 1 said:
But don't dismiss a good hot hatch by looks and size alone until you've driven one properly. They can be more exciting, on the right road than a rwd.
I dismiss them because they ARE a hatchback. Especially FWD ones. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff