Am I a heretic? I just don't like hot-hatches
Discussion
DoubleD said:
coppice said:
Olivera said:
Hot hatches are great, everyday usable cars with reasonable mpg, but with a good turn of pace and decent handling when the opportunity arises.
In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
They are really not , believe me. Hot hatches are obviously supremely well developed , very quick and seem to have no downsides. But they really do - they are compromised as they have to do lots of different things , they are often much too big and heavy (whatever the 0-60 time, which adolescents think is the main metric ) , they are ubiquitous and ,ultimately , they are just specced up versions of the car your sister uses to pick up the kids from school . I have never owned or driven one which made driving it for its own sake appealing. In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
That may be just me , but when I could afford a toy like a Seven I lost interest in hot hatches almost completely. And of course a Golf R would demolish any Seven (or at least any Seven driven by me ) on a wet and/ or bumpy road but so what ? Speed per se is a factor but far from the whole equation. It is about driver involvement , sense of occasion , rawness and lack of electronic safety nets. I've got up at 4am and driven 500 miles in a Seven because I could , and it was unforgettable. In a Type R (etc ) I'd get there quicker, in more comfort , use less fuel and forget the journey within a week ...
coppice said:
DoubleD said:
coppice said:
Olivera said:
Hot hatches are great, everyday usable cars with reasonable mpg, but with a good turn of pace and decent handling when the opportunity arises.
In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
They are really not , believe me. Hot hatches are obviously supremely well developed , very quick and seem to have no downsides. But they really do - they are compromised as they have to do lots of different things , they are often much too big and heavy (whatever the 0-60 time, which adolescents think is the main metric ) , they are ubiquitous and ,ultimately , they are just specced up versions of the car your sister uses to pick up the kids from school . I have never owned or driven one which made driving it for its own sake appealing. In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
That may be just me , but when I could afford a toy like a Seven I lost interest in hot hatches almost completely. And of course a Golf R would demolish any Seven (or at least any Seven driven by me ) on a wet and/ or bumpy road but so what ? Speed per se is a factor but far from the whole equation. It is about driver involvement , sense of occasion , rawness and lack of electronic safety nets. I've got up at 4am and driven 500 miles in a Seven because I could , and it was unforgettable. In a Type R (etc ) I'd get there quicker, in more comfort , use less fuel and forget the journey within a week ...
Try a integra type r or a Clio Williams on a good B road and you'll turning around to try again 😬
Today (like most petrolheads):
If I needed to run one single vehicle and my budget and size-of-car requirement dictated a small hatchback, then a hot hatch would seem to be the perfect compromise over a cold-hatch equivalent of the same car.
But when I have needed a bigger car, or my budget was higher, I have gone for a saloon, estate or coupe size of performance car.
For fun, where I am not carrying kids, relatives or stuff to the tip in a second or third family car. I usually buy smaller, as bigger cars take up more space.
M4CK 1 said:
coppice said:
DoubleD said:
coppice said:
Olivera said:
Hot hatches are great, everyday usable cars with reasonable mpg, but with a good turn of pace and decent handling when the opportunity arises.
In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
They are really not , believe me. Hot hatches are obviously supremely well developed , very quick and seem to have no downsides. But they really do - they are compromised as they have to do lots of different things , they are often much too big and heavy (whatever the 0-60 time, which adolescents think is the main metric ) , they are ubiquitous and ,ultimately , they are just specced up versions of the car your sister uses to pick up the kids from school . I have never owned or driven one which made driving it for its own sake appealing. In many ways they are better than having a weekend car that gets limited use, where that fantastic drive never really arises but the expense certainly does.
That may be just me , but when I could afford a toy like a Seven I lost interest in hot hatches almost completely. And of course a Golf R would demolish any Seven (or at least any Seven driven by me ) on a wet and/ or bumpy road but so what ? Speed per se is a factor but far from the whole equation. It is about driver involvement , sense of occasion , rawness and lack of electronic safety nets. I've got up at 4am and driven 500 miles in a Seven because I could , and it was unforgettable. In a Type R (etc ) I'd get there quicker, in more comfort , use less fuel and forget the journey within a week ...
Try a integra type r or a Clio Williams on a good B road and you'll turning around to try again ??
And yes, I owned an Integra for over 5 years, thrashed on road and track and used daily. At the same time as having a Caterham.
I love hot hatches, I like their capabilities as a jack of all trades car. I see them as the UK equivalent of the blue collar muscle cars in the USA, performance for the everyman. That said, I'd be suprised if there was one that offered the same experience as my Cayman, the closest I've had would have been the the Focus ST but that was dynamically some way off still.
Compromises are part of the hot hatches strength though as they allow its wide range of abilities.
Compromises are part of the hot hatches strength though as they allow its wide range of abilities.
Nanook said:
Ultrafunkula said:
I love hot hatches, I like their capabilities as a jack of all trades car. I see them as the UK equivalent of the blue collar muscle cars in the USA, performance for the everyman. That said, I'd be suprised if there was one that offered the same experience as my Cayman, the closest I've had would have been the the Focus ST but that was dynamically some way off still.
Compromises are part of the hot hatches strength though as they allow its wide range of abilities.
Whilst some hot hatches are right good fun, I doubt you'll find one that's a match for your Cayman in the driving stakes!Compromises are part of the hot hatches strength though as they allow its wide range of abilities.
deltashad said:
There's a lot of crap being talked about here.
One of the last interesting cars I drove was a Golf mk6 Gti. It didn't even have a manual box. DSG.
A fabulous daily driver, practical and fun. I'd have one in a heartbeat.
Does this mean I shouldn't enjoy driving my daily driver Elise?
Why on earth would it mean that?One of the last interesting cars I drove was a Golf mk6 Gti. It didn't even have a manual box. DSG.
A fabulous daily driver, practical and fun. I'd have one in a heartbeat.
Does this mean I shouldn't enjoy driving my daily driver Elise?
M4CK 1 said:
But don't dismiss a good hot hatch by looks and size alone until you've driven one properly. They can be more exciting, on the right road than a rwd.
In certain road conditions they will certainly easier to drive fast than a RWD, but then a 4WD rally rep will be even better.A FWD hot hatch definitely has its merits and if I had the space to keep and time to drive half a dozen cars I might have one just for the contrast.
Mr Gearchange said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I do wonder if there's a whiff of snobbery going on here.
No you don't.There will people who enjoy cars quickly in a straight line enjoying there V8
Nothing wrong with that.
But people who enjoy driving B roads and don't have a big bank balance to have 2 cars or a cheap 2nd car have bought a cheap hot hatch and found them to be great cars to drive and able to turn a greater speed then they have any right to be. Don't diss them until you've driven them properly.
M4CK 1 said:
Mr Gearchange said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I do wonder if there's a whiff of snobbery going on here.
No you don't.There will people who enjoy cars quickly in a straight line enjoying there V8
Nothing wrong with that.
But people who enjoy driving B roads and don't have a big bank balance to have 2 cars or a cheap 2nd car have bought a cheap hot hatch and found them to be great cars to drive and able to turn a greater speed then they have any right to be. Don't diss them until you've driven them properly.
I came to the conclusion that if I bought a car that didn't have a boot I could stick a dog in I'd never use it, as I rarely drive for the hell of it; I'm usually going somewhere.
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