Am I a heretic? I just don't like hot-hatches

[M4CK 1]

kambites said:

M4CK 1 said:

Most rwd cars and fwd cars can't be compared to a lotus, though finding the limits on the road you need to be seriously brave.
Hot hatches when driven with commitment on there toes as such, are a real buzz.

That depends on the type fo hot hatch. A Golf R or even some of the FWD hot hatches in that category will be capable of carrying far more speed than an Elise if driven to the limits. Obviously a Suzuki Swift Sport wont.

IMO I find hot hatches easier and much more friendly to drive on the limit on the road without the fear of finding the nearest hedge.
In the end it comes down what you feel comfortable driving on the end.
Oh and a 306 is better for skids

[Exige77]

kambites said:

M4CK 1 said:

Most rwd cars and fwd cars can't be compared to a lotus, though finding the limits on the road you need to be seriously brave.
Hot hatches when driven with commitment on there toes as such, are a real buzz.

That depends on the type fo hot hatch. A Golf R or even some of the FWD hot hatches in that category will be capable of carrying far more speed than an Elise if driven to the limits. Obviously a Suzuki Swift Sport wont.

Frankly almost any proper hot hatch would show my Elise a clean pair of heels around a track.

For a couple of laps maybe !!

[Mr Gearchange]

Modern ones are too big, far too heavy and too powerful.

My Puma was an absolute joy - light, responsive and a study in maintaining momentum - you could drive them at 10/10ths everywhere. I enjoyed my Puma more than my M3.

Recent stuff leaves me cold though - especially with 300+ BHP and FWD.

[Klippie]

I had couple of hot hatches in the late 80’s Golf GTi 8v’s which were amazing, now a days my Swift Sport is as close to those cars from back then as I could find i.e. low weight and just the right amount of power to have fun...life is sweet, the new Swift Sport is a let down very disappointing.

Hot hatches have become Hyper Hatches with upwards of 300bhp not as much fun as you don’t need to thrash them to get your speed fix.

But I recently had a go in a new Fiesta ST what a superb machine it was everything I like about a small fast car...except the price knocking on £25k for a spec’d up ST3 is too much.

Edited by Klippie on Saturday 21st July 20:14

[M4CK 1]

Mr Gearchange said:

Modern ones are too big, far too heavy and too powerful.

My Puma was an absolute joy - light, responsive and a study in maintaining momentum - you could drive them at 10/10ths everywhere. I enjoyed my Puma more than my M3.

Recent stuff leaves me cold though - especially with 300+ BHP and FWD.

Yeah I agree!!
A 106,306, Puma, Clio are a great hoon at 10/10ths where your less likely in the higher powered super hatches

[Alex_225]

I must say my interest in hot hatches has waned in the last 4-5 years but I put that down to buying into a different type of cars. I have owned a number of hot hatches over the years, mostly in the form of RenaultSport models. I do still actually own a Megane 225 and a Twingo 133.

That was in my 20s though, I'm not mid-30s and have far more of a fancy for high powered saloons (hence buying a CLS63). I just haven't found the latest batch of hot hatches to my taste really. The Golf-R, A45 and RS3 are hugely impressive but don't flick my switch. The Fiesta ST was more my preference if I'm honest and the new RS Megane really does look good.

[TameRacingDriver]

M4CK 1 said:

TameRacingDriver said:

They certainly have their uses, but I’d rather have a slow sports car (MR2, MX5, GT86 etc) for fun than a fast hatchback. Any day of the week.

I love driving little hot hatches. It's Really down to how you drive them. If you drive them in like a rwd car, there not much fun.
I found when driving a rwd car wasn't much fun as fwd hot hatch as I was getting to much understeer in comparison. I had to change my driving style. So instead of driving on the nose of the car I had to slow down before the corner and power out.

Guess it depends where your preferences lie. I’ve often found you can be a bit more of a hooligan in a FWD car, whereas the RWD cars are more cerebral (basically, you need to concentrate and drive well). I prefer the latter personally but I can see the appeal.

[irocfan]

Mr Gearchange said:

My Puma was an absolute joy - light, responsive and a study in maintaining momentum - you could drive them at 10/10ths everywhere. I enjoyed my Puma more than my M3.

TBH I'd be more than happy with a Puma - then again I'd not thought of that as a hatch in all honesty

[nickfrog]

TameRacingDriver said:

Guess it depends where your preferences lie. I’ve often found you can be a bit more of a hooligan in a FWD car, whereas the RWD cars are more cerebral (basically, you need to concentrate and drive well). I prefer the latter personally but I can see the appeal.

Depends entirely how they are set up, an aggressively set up front driver can be a bh on turn in, in a good way.

[kambites]

TameRacingDriver said:

Guess it depends where your preferences lie. I’ve often found you can be a bit more of a hooligan in a FWD car, whereas the RWD cars are more cerebral (basically, you need to concentrate and drive well). I prefer the latter personally but I can see the appeal.

You can take liberties with most hot hatches (especially modern ones) without much fear that they'll bite you... the flip side of that being they tend to provide little reward if you drive them smoothly and carefully. I suppose ultimately it comes down to how you want to drive.

[Cloudy147]

I've really liked a lot of previous hot hatches, especially the old school stuff from my youth (XR3i, Astra GTE, Uno Turbo(!) etc), and some of the modern stuff I thought looked great - 2005 Focus ST, 2007 Civic Type R.

However, whilst the new crop might be a decent steer, I agree with some others that the don't look visually appealing - especially now so many are 5 doors.

Five doors don't make for an attractive hot hatch for me.

[Baron von Teuchter]

The modern ones, not so much. Too big, too heavy, too refined.

The only ones I’ve driven and really, really liked are:

Golf mk1/2
205gti
Clio 182

All small, all light, all NA. Perfect recipe for a hot hatch.

I haven’t tried an up gti yet but I don’t think I’ll like it. I still think there’s a market for a tiny, raucous hatch. But marketing departments think people want lots of toys, great mpg, loads of sound insulation and turbos. Maybe they do and I’m in the minority!

[Gad-Westy]

rossub said:

Agree about the 5 door aspect. IMO there’s never been a good looking 5 door hot hatch.

These look alright.



I have a modern hot hatch. I think of it as nothing more than a fast, practical car. It's the right size for my needs, comfortable enough and pretty quick. In the same way you might need an estate car for family duties, and being a pertrolhead, opt for a C63 when a C200d would suffice.

My Leon suits the needs of a car rather than a toy but has a decent enough turn of speed to make it more interesting. But emphatically, I would never dream of just going for a drive in it for the sake of it, they're just too competent to be particularly engaging.

The only hot hatches I've ever owned have all been simply to fulfil a need and be more interesting than a 'cooking' model.

But it's interesting that some of the stuff from the 80's and right through the 90's, all of which are far slower, could definitely tempt me as a pure toy. I'd absolutely love to be thrashing something like a 205, an AX or a Clio or something down a tight little B-road right now. So much fun to just chuck around. Totally different experience to driving a well sorted sportscar or saloon and on certain roads they're just untouchable for sheer fun.

[Johnnytheboy]

irocfan said:

Am I alone in this?

Denigrating hot hatches is perpetually fashionable on PH so I'd say you are far from alone.

[cerb4.5lee]

I've never had much experience with them(had a mk5 RS2000 in the late 90's), I currently have a F56 Mini Cooper S and I love it. I do feel that I've missed out in some ways though because I've always preferred RWD cars overall.

I quite like the useable performance of the Mini rather than something that has lots of power that you can't use in many ways. I would've liked something like a Renault 5 GT Turbo/Peugeot 205 GTi/Fiesta RS Turbo etc when I was younger for sure.

Edited by cerb4.5lee on Saturday 21st July 21:59

[M4CK 1]

Johnnytheboy said:

irocfan said:

Am I alone in this?

Denigrating hot hatches is perpetually fashionable on PH so I'd say you are far from alone.

Yeah of course there wrong wheel drive

[Glasgowrob]

mid to large size rwd saloons are where its at


have had many hot hatches over the years but my omega is a much better car imo.

[Escort3500]

I would much rather take a 205GTi or 106 Rallye over a modern, overpowered and, in the case of the M140i and latest Type-R pig ugly, hatchbacks.

[Itsallicanafford]

Drive a mk3 renaultsport megane on track, then tell me you don’t like them.

[nickfrog]

M4CK 1 said:

Yeah of course there wrong wheel drive

Yes usually said by a road only driver scaring himself at 4/10ths...