RE: Civic Type R facelift spied with more options
Discussion
Kenny Powers said:
Of course I understand that the looks are divisive, but there’s little doubt the Honda is a monumentally good hot hatch! 
The thing about family cars is that they are exactly that. If you're buying a 5 door hatch you probably need it to do practical things too.Blearyeyedgirl is lovely to share a marriage with, but it would be fair to say that she tolerates my love of cars rather than shares in it. I don't buy or lease cars in isolation- we discuss significant purchases and she'd need to drive it too.
In that hypothetical situation, she'd be happiest with a Golf. She wouldn't be seen dead in an FK2 with a teatray spoiler. She would be talked into a Mégane RS. (The latter is my realistic plan for a couple of years' time. So far, she doesn't hate photos of the Mégane. She thinks the Honda is awful to look at.)
I might feel that the looks are a small price to pay, but it's easier to convince a spouse if a car's not sporting something that was stolen from Airbus.
Would this be enough? Maybe just about for my wife. But probably for a few thousand others too... It depends who Honda are aiming this at. I'm guessing it's probably not aimed at guys in my situation.
blearyeyedboy said:
The thing about family cars is that they are exactly that. If you're buying a 5 door hatch you probably need it to do practical things too.
Blearyeyedgirl is lovely to share a marriage with, but it would be fair to say that she tolerates my love of cars rather than shares in it. I don't buy or lease cars in isolation- we discuss significant purchases and she'd need to drive it too.
In that hypothetical situation, she'd be happiest with a Golf. She wouldn't be seen dead in an FK2 with a teatray spoiler. She would be talked into a Mégane RS. (The latter is my realistic plan for a couple of years' time. So far, she doesn't hate photos of the Mégane. She thinks the Honda is awful to look at.)
I might feel that the looks are a small price to pay, but it's easier to convince a spouse if a car's not sporting something that was stolen from Airbus.
Would this be enough? Maybe just about for my wife. But probably for a few thousand others too... It depends who Honda are aiming this at. I'm guessing it's probably not aimed at guys in my situation.
I think you've hit the nail on the head though - people (alright, GUYS) who have the $$ to buy this car are most likely not your average 20 something who would like/ be impressed by the wing - they're more likely older, married, family guys maybe - hence 5 doors and practical boot appeals, but the styling is not really helping. Chris Harris said something similar in his youtube - styled like it needs to appeal to 20 somethings but more likely 30/40 somethings will be the ones to be able to blow 35k on a car like this.Blearyeyedgirl is lovely to share a marriage with, but it would be fair to say that she tolerates my love of cars rather than shares in it. I don't buy or lease cars in isolation- we discuss significant purchases and she'd need to drive it too.
In that hypothetical situation, she'd be happiest with a Golf. She wouldn't be seen dead in an FK2 with a teatray spoiler. She would be talked into a Mégane RS. (The latter is my realistic plan for a couple of years' time. So far, she doesn't hate photos of the Mégane. She thinks the Honda is awful to look at.)
I might feel that the looks are a small price to pay, but it's easier to convince a spouse if a car's not sporting something that was stolen from Airbus.
Would this be enough? Maybe just about for my wife. But probably for a few thousand others too... It depends who Honda are aiming this at. I'm guessing it's probably not aimed at guys in my situation.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
dobly said:
^ They are very different cars, in very different market segments. I just didn't gel with the Civic, despite the performance being apparently comparable - this comes down to feel I suppose.
But your nsx will feel leaden and s
te next to a caterham, so what’s the point comparing them?Big wows, a modern turbocharged fwd hatch doesn’t drive as good as a 20 year old bespoke Supercar.
What did you expect?
Kenny Powers said:
Overthinking. If you want it and can afford it, buy it. Otherwise don’t. Choice is good.
I’ll let the manufacturers do the boardroom analysis. They know their markets and what they want to achieve. I just buy cars I want and don’t buy the ones I don’t.
To be fair, it's not like we're short of choice in this particular segment. But the problem with your argument is:I’ll let the manufacturers do the boardroom analysis. They know their markets and what they want to achieve. I just buy cars I want and don’t buy the ones I don’t.
Kenny Powers said:
I just buy cars I want
If you need a family car- 'cos let's face it, if you don't then you'll probably get a 2-seater or coupé instead- then buying decisions are rarely made by an "I", but by a "we".All I'm getting at is that Honda are wise to broaden their demographic a little. It doesn't have to make them dull. There's a gulf of fashion choices between a sober business suit and a leather catsuit...
It’s not an argument it’s a choice. If you don’t want the Civic you buy something else. I don’t get the problem. Honda aren’t obligated to make a car that everyone wants or can have.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
ETA: So I think you’re saying it’s a problem because “you” want one but the “wife” says you can’t have one? I see what you mean in that case but welcome to life. That’s no different to a illion other things, from big TV’s to PlayStations. Trade the wife in for a newer model or buy something else
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
ETA: So I think you’re saying it’s a problem because “you” want one but the “wife” says you can’t have one? I see what you mean in that case but welcome to life. That’s no different to a illion other things, from big TV’s to PlayStations. Trade the wife in for a newer model or buy something else
Edited by Kenny Powers on Wednesday 25th July 18:58
Kenny Powers said:
It’s not an argument it’s a choice. If you don’t want the Civic you buy something else. I don’t get the problem. Honda aren’t obligated to make a car that everyone wants or can have.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
You're not but those that are under the thumb of the wifey and really just need to grow a pair, will always bang on about the 'challenging' looks.Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
Looking at the pictures I prefer the red one with the larger rear wing and the white wheels. As someone has already said, it reminds of the Tommi Mak' Evo VI and I should now as I have sat with several parked next to my desk in the days when I sold Mitsubishis (drove them a few times too). It is not the rear wing that would put me off as much as the oversized fake vents in the rear bumper and I say that as someone who ordered a new MK1 ZS180 4dr with the smaller rear spoiler option.
Having said the above, I am 39, married and now have two children - but I really like the Civic Type R and would easily have one over the German competition which I personally find a bit dull (my brother has had 3 Golf GTIs - he likes them, but they don't really do much for me and have not been the most reliable/robust of things). I am too attached to it but, if I were to replace my Focus ST 2.5 'toy' with something newer, the Civic would certainly be on the list, especially as Jaguar don't really offer anything sporty with more than two seats anymore (they recently dropped the XE S and that could only be had as an auto).
There are certain things that the Japanese get right (Mazda and Honda in particular) that make a car, even a fairly ordinary one, nice to drive. Reliability is one, but they also do consistency of control weighting and great quality manual gear shifts that really do make a car good to drive and the Honda will certainly have that - my petrol Mazda 6 is the same and this, when combined with well-tuned steering and a good ride/handling balance, make it a great car to drive even though it is a fairly 'ordinary' car on paper.
Overall, a practical and reliable Japanese car, built in Britain, that is one of if not the best in class. We should see more of them on the road than we do, but then perhaps they are not as readily available on a lease for under £300 per month? That is perhaps what Honda need to sort out if they want to sell more of them here?
Having said the above, I am 39, married and now have two children - but I really like the Civic Type R and would easily have one over the German competition which I personally find a bit dull (my brother has had 3 Golf GTIs - he likes them, but they don't really do much for me and have not been the most reliable/robust of things). I am too attached to it but, if I were to replace my Focus ST 2.5 'toy' with something newer, the Civic would certainly be on the list, especially as Jaguar don't really offer anything sporty with more than two seats anymore (they recently dropped the XE S and that could only be had as an auto).
There are certain things that the Japanese get right (Mazda and Honda in particular) that make a car, even a fairly ordinary one, nice to drive. Reliability is one, but they also do consistency of control weighting and great quality manual gear shifts that really do make a car good to drive and the Honda will certainly have that - my petrol Mazda 6 is the same and this, when combined with well-tuned steering and a good ride/handling balance, make it a great car to drive even though it is a fairly 'ordinary' car on paper.
Overall, a practical and reliable Japanese car, built in Britain, that is one of if not the best in class. We should see more of them on the road than we do, but then perhaps they are not as readily available on a lease for under £300 per month? That is perhaps what Honda need to sort out if they want to sell more of them here?
mp3manager said:
Kenny Powers said:
It’s not an argument it’s a choice. If you don’t want the Civic you buy something else. I don’t get the problem. Honda aren’t obligated to make a car that everyone wants or can have.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
You're not but those that are under the thumb of the wifey and really just need to grow a pair, will always bang on about the 'challenging' looks.Sorry if I’m misunderstanding
You miss the point. What I really don't get is why Honda restrict themselves to Market A, when with spoiler deletes or similar changes they can have Market A and Market B. I'm guessing Honda are wondering that too, which is why they're is playing around with spoiler options. The spoilers are great if you're autobahning or tracking, but I'd bet most Type Rs in the UK do neither. For a fast road car, the spoiler delete won't delete the fun unless you like the aesthetic.
I'd prefer the Mégane anyway if I didn't have to take her opinion into account, but I use the example of my wife's opinion because it illustrates the reality of the hatchback market and why the 3-door hot hatch is bloody nearly extinct. A lot of guys like to pretend they can live their life without taking the opinions of their spouses into account, and hide behind their keyboards... And that's why the GT86 talked a good game but didn't sell well in the UK.
But I call bulls
t. I think there are a lot of men who'd like one, and mouth off online but when it comes to committing, they finally have to acknowledge their partner has a say and won't go with the idea. I've just got the balls to admit it what I know some of the men on here are really thinking, but won't type because they're worried their masculinity will be challenged by men they don't know online if they acknowledge that they don't have total control over their life savings in a 21st century marriage.Those under the thumb of peer pressure from other men online really just need to grow a pair, and should be comfortable enough in their masculinity to acknowledge that they don't get to spend the family's savings on a car unless their partner agrees. :P
/troll feeding.
Your previous comments sounded to me like you felt entitled to your perfect car. Thanks for the clarification.Sorry Kenny, still smiling this end but can see how my reply could be viewed as more narky than meant. Meant as banter.
I'm just saying choice is good, and unless you're tracking or doing very high speed in Germany shouldn't affect your fun. I'm also saying that men have a habit of talking big in public forums but behaving differently when it comes to getting their wallet out in the real world.
To be honest, spousal influence or not, we've never had it so good in terms of choice. The Golf GTi is no longer the pudding the Mk 4 was; Peugeot are no longer making ste and there's a list of options for warm/toasty/hot/uber hatch for those who want them. Those who want to opt out of this class for small/light can even choose from tasty talent in the class below. We've never had it so good (with the exception of steering feel, but you can't have it all).
I'm just saying choice is good, and unless you're tracking or doing very high speed in Germany shouldn't affect your fun. I'm also saying that men have a habit of talking big in public forums but behaving differently when it comes to getting their wallet out in the real world.
To be honest, spousal influence or not, we've never had it so good in terms of choice. The Golf GTi is no longer the pudding the Mk 4 was; Peugeot are no longer making s
te and there's a list of options for warm/toasty/hot/uber hatch for those who want them. Those who want to opt out of this class for small/light can even choose from tasty talent in the class below. We've never had it so good (with the exception of steering feel, but you can't have it all).Oh, and to be honest I think Honda have been missing a Type S for some time. The EP3's Type S equivalent was a tasty vehicle for its day and much forgotten now. Think of it as the Honda's equivalent of the Focus ST to the Focus RS.
Give it 50bhp less, tone down the extremes of the Type R and I think there would be a market. A Type S badge would avoid dilution of the Type R brand too.
Give it 50bhp less, tone down the extremes of the Type R and I think there would be a market. A Type S badge would avoid dilution of the Type R brand too.
Wow, we agreed on something! 
While I'm not a massive fan of the Type R's aesthetic, there is a culture that risks being lost if it's softened too much. Type S would give Honda an "honourable get out" of that bind.
Do the FK8 aero mods really help? I remember reading in an evo article about the FK2's aero mods being assessed by engineers who were sceptical about their value...
While I'm not a massive fan of the Type R's aesthetic, there is a culture that risks being lost if it's softened too much. Type S would give Honda an "honourable get out" of that bind.
Do the FK8 aero mods really help? I remember reading in an evo article about the FK2's aero mods being assessed by engineers who were sceptical about their value...
I don’t think a Type S would have worked with its intended audience without first re-establishing the Type R for younger or less race-inclined owners to aspire to. That’s done now so it makes sense to offer the more tame version. We will soon see, I guess!
No idea if the aero works, but I do know that it’s a much more serious machine than most people give it credit. Fully functioning and directed brake ducts etc. Honda claim downforce and I think we can at least assume neutral lift.
No idea if the aero works, but I do know that it’s a much more serious machine than most people give it credit. Fully functioning and directed brake ducts etc. Honda claim downforce and I think we can at least assume neutral lift.
Onehp said:
Reading the Top Gear comparison, the Type R is a 4 seater only? And one can only load 289kg according to another mag, taking that very literally that means it doesn't even take three big chested lads... That kills it for me as a family car if true...
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