RE: Service History: In an ordinary world
Discussion
rockin said:
Maldini35 said:
Find a decent 90’s car that isn’t totally shagged, then spend no more than £300-400 on new bushes, track rod ends, dampers, exhaust hangers, tyres, gearbox oil, discs and pads, brake hoses, engine oil and filter and plugs.
Still not too bad though.
I got a 60% discount from Euro car parts - I don’t know how they stay solvent.
T1berious said:
I'm no expert but isn't part of the reason normal cars feel like buses compared to their brethren of the 90's due to weight?
I mean back then 190 Bhp only had to push around 1200kg but now even a warm Focus with 180 Bhp has to push around 1500Kg!
The list of things that add weight is long but our needs as motorists have changed too. High NCAP ratings aside, the infotainment and connectivity reqs compared to electric windows and Pioneer head unit are night and day
.
Which is probably why entertaining Hot hatches now have an entry point of 300 Bhp!
Could you imagine a Golf Mk II with with even 80% of that!
No wonder going to a time warp Civic would feel like a Caterham compared to current cars.
T1b
The E36 is >1400kg, but don't let that stop a (completely unfounded) rant.I mean back then 190 Bhp only had to push around 1200kg but now even a warm Focus with 180 Bhp has to push around 1500Kg!
The list of things that add weight is long but our needs as motorists have changed too. High NCAP ratings aside, the infotainment and connectivity reqs compared to electric windows and Pioneer head unit are night and day
.Which is probably why entertaining Hot hatches now have an entry point of 300 Bhp!
Could you imagine a Golf Mk II with with even 80% of that!
No wonder going to a time warp Civic would feel like a Caterham compared to current cars.
T1b
GIYess said:
My second car was a mk4 astra. Its a bit of a later car than the above but, while it wasn't fast by any stretch of the imagination. It handled like a dream and felt quick. Same principle, great suspension and engine for a bog standard car.
Mk4 Astras never handled "like a dream". Even the high performance ones were dismal to drive. Take away the nostalgia, and you've got a pretty sh*t car that you've just canonised.Honda's from the 90's are great cars to drive IMO. The Pedal weights and positions are how you would like, The gear changes feel accurate and mechanical, The suspension movement was nice and fluid and the cars felt relatively nimble. Well engineered things, and you could tell more of the budget was spent on the underpinnings rather than the interior. Which is the exact opposite for cars in this class now-a-days, But it's what the mass of consumers want, Nice interiors with a nice infotainment system and well insulated from the strains of driving. And this suits manufacturers because they can just share platforms with McPherson struts, rear beams and drums brakes because no-body really cares about things like that as whole in this era.
'Nice and light steering, sharp brakes, nice screen on the dash, It can park itself and it looks nice, I'll have it'
'Nice and light steering, sharp brakes, nice screen on the dash, It can park itself and it looks nice, I'll have it'
It might be an age thing, but there was something appealing about many car designs of what I call the pre-digital era. A period of maybe two decades from the late 1970s, early '80s onwards.
Designs of many ordinary shipping cars worked. They looked good and hi-tech features were along the lines of electric windows and central locking.
A MK3 Escort was a big break with the previous 1960s generation car. The Civic featured here was a world away from the first Civics that we saw on our roads. A world away from the old, but not yet cars with a massive emphasis on electronics be that for entertainment the environment or safety. Designs built with safety in mind but designs not all made to gain stars in an identical set of crash tests.
Two roads from me there is a P-Reg Pug 306. Its in daily use. Its looked after but not cherished. Despite that it pretty much looks like it did in the late 1990s. Its an often observed fact other cars are bigger these days and it is dwarfed by much of the modern stuff that parks next to it. The car stands out with its narrow window pillars, flush door handles and gently curved side sills. It looks light, it certainly rather be in a crash in a modern Pug than this, but there is something appealing about cars before they got fat, with bluff noses and high bonnets to put distance between the engine and the unfortunate pedestrian.
I also can't help but wonder how much power - electrical and mechanical - modern cars with their allegedly better fuel consumption and low emissions draw. Yesterday my 2018 "premium" SUV got low on fuel. It told me, it told my 'phone and my wife's 'phone. Pressing "Eco" to give a tiny bit more range and saw systems in the car shut down, no heated seats, the climate control went into a different mode, it did its Stop/Start thing more often. The consumption page on the infotainment showed a silver car on a green background. I gradually restored all the functions, just to watch the page change colour to a disapproving orange as a stabbed various dash buttons. My 2018 car may be better for the environment and safer to be in or be hit by, but I can't help wonder that if it didn't have all the electronics filters and nearly two tonnes of mass to lug around that it'd be a hell of a lot greener and more fun.
Designs of many ordinary shipping cars worked. They looked good and hi-tech features were along the lines of electric windows and central locking.
A MK3 Escort was a big break with the previous 1960s generation car. The Civic featured here was a world away from the first Civics that we saw on our roads. A world away from the old, but not yet cars with a massive emphasis on electronics be that for entertainment the environment or safety. Designs built with safety in mind but designs not all made to gain stars in an identical set of crash tests.
Two roads from me there is a P-Reg Pug 306. Its in daily use. Its looked after but not cherished. Despite that it pretty much looks like it did in the late 1990s. Its an often observed fact other cars are bigger these days and it is dwarfed by much of the modern stuff that parks next to it. The car stands out with its narrow window pillars, flush door handles and gently curved side sills. It looks light, it certainly rather be in a crash in a modern Pug than this, but there is something appealing about cars before they got fat, with bluff noses and high bonnets to put distance between the engine and the unfortunate pedestrian.
I also can't help but wonder how much power - electrical and mechanical - modern cars with their allegedly better fuel consumption and low emissions draw. Yesterday my 2018 "premium" SUV got low on fuel. It told me, it told my 'phone and my wife's 'phone. Pressing "Eco" to give a tiny bit more range and saw systems in the car shut down, no heated seats, the climate control went into a different mode, it did its Stop/Start thing more often. The consumption page on the infotainment showed a silver car on a green background. I gradually restored all the functions, just to watch the page change colour to a disapproving orange as a stabbed various dash buttons. My 2018 car may be better for the environment and safer to be in or be hit by, but I can't help wonder that if it didn't have all the electronics filters and nearly two tonnes of mass to lug around that it'd be a hell of a lot greener and more fun.
Edited by Wildcat45 on Monday 30th July 09:29
Couldn’t agree more, driving a rather baggy VW Passat B5, and even though it was always a wallowy old pillow of a car, the steering and gearbox are well weighted and slick. Still a 1.5 tonne car so not really sure that’s the problem, I suspect nowadays poor steering calibration and too much reliance on electrical wizardry to give the impression of sportiness. Cue my previous mk5 Astra turbo, dead electro-hydraulic steering, a sport button that simply halved the pedal travel, and overboost that had to think a second before allowing full torque. Gearbox always felt obstrutive too.
Can’t be that hard to inject some feel into matters can it ?
Can’t be that hard to inject some feel into matters can it ?
As part of a stag do I bought a manual C250TD (W202 / technically an S202 because it was the estate, so right in the rust era)
The shift action was a bit crap, it is a Mercedes manual after all, but it rode like magic. You could actively seek out big potholes on the motorway and revel in not even feeling them at speed.
The shift action was a bit crap, it is a Mercedes manual after all, but it rode like magic. You could actively seek out big potholes on the motorway and revel in not even feeling them at speed.
After reading PH forums daily for years, now I've seen this thread I had to sign up!
I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road
4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway!
Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road
4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway! Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
Edited by Billy.RS on Monday 30th July 11:48
It is worth remembering that many old, humdrum Fwd cars understeered (and sometimes snap oversteered at inopportune moments) all over the place. 80s-mid 90s Vauxhalls were terrible for it. Many 1970s cars were even worse.
Ride quality was often better in the past than on modern cars, though. (not all, a Mini wasn't a cosseting ride, but it would be interesting to drive a good, standard one now)
It's odd that people (presumably in focus groups) seem to like to have a sharp turn-in car with a "sporty"/hard ride, when few people drive their cars hard or quick on the sort of roads that require it and actually mostly drive their cars along straight, (or low 20-40mph speed limit) bumpy, potholed roads. Modern steering doesn't lend itself to feel and feedback either.
The external aesthetics of very big wheels and shallow tyres at the expense of ride quality doesn't help.
Ride quality was often better in the past than on modern cars, though. (not all, a Mini wasn't a cosseting ride, but it would be interesting to drive a good, standard one now)
It's odd that people (presumably in focus groups) seem to like to have a sharp turn-in car with a "sporty"/hard ride, when few people drive their cars hard or quick on the sort of roads that require it and actually mostly drive their cars along straight, (or low 20-40mph speed limit) bumpy, potholed roads. Modern steering doesn't lend itself to feel and feedback either.
The external aesthetics of very big wheels and shallow tyres at the expense of ride quality doesn't help.
C70R said:
GIYess said:
My second car was a mk4 astra. Its a bit of a later car than the above but, while it wasn't fast by any stretch of the imagination. It handled like a dream and felt quick. Same principle, great suspension and engine for a bog standard car.
Mk4 Astras never handled "like a dream". Even the high performance ones were dismal to drive. Take away the nostalgia, and you've got a pretty sh*t car that you've just canonised.Billy.RS said:
After reading PH forums daily for years, now I've seen this thread I had to sign up!
I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road 4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway!
Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road
4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway! Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
Edited by Billy.RS on Monday 30th July 11:48
This brings back memories, in the 90's I bought my 1st new car being a 1994 Opel Kadett 160iS (was called Astra in Europe) with the C16SE engine so 74kw or 99 hp.
The gearing was so good that despite the modest power there was always enough. Just before we opened a motorway we were building a number of us maxed our cars out on the closed road, got mine to hit the rev limiter in 5th gear at an indicated 215 km/h on the speedo. My boss in his VR6 Jetta had disappeared into the distance by then. No car since has ever had "just enough" gearing to max out the engine in top gear. Cars are so over geared now, which can be really frustrating when you have to change down 2 gears just to pass someone on the freeway.
That little Opel took me all over the country, into Botswana twice and Mozambique plenty times. It eventually died when very fine dust got through the air filter (on the construction site in Mozambique) and destroyed the engine.
The gearing was so good that despite the modest power there was always enough. Just before we opened a motorway we were building a number of us maxed our cars out on the closed road, got mine to hit the rev limiter in 5th gear at an indicated 215 km/h on the speedo. My boss in his VR6 Jetta had disappeared into the distance by then. No car since has ever had "just enough" gearing to max out the engine in top gear. Cars are so over geared now, which can be really frustrating when you have to change down 2 gears just to pass someone on the freeway.
That little Opel took me all over the country, into Botswana twice and Mozambique plenty times. It eventually died when very fine dust got through the air filter (on the construction site in Mozambique) and destroyed the engine.
GIYess said:
C70R said:
GIYess said:
My second car was a mk4 astra. Its a bit of a later car than the above but, while it wasn't fast by any stretch of the imagination. It handled like a dream and felt quick. Same principle, great suspension and engine for a bog standard car.
Mk4 Astras never handled "like a dream". Even the high performance ones were dismal to drive. Take away the nostalgia, and you've got a pretty sh*t car that you've just canonised.This is a great article BTW and so true. I was only thinking yesterday that car adverts these days are all about the fancy dash, the infotainment and the monthly lease cost. No one mentions 0-60 times, handling, etc any more. I recently bought my daughter a Ford KA, which dates back to the 1990s and its absolutely brilliant for driving round town. It just floats over all those horrible pot holes and bumps, feels like it weighs next to nothing and is just so easy for getting around town. I get back into my Insignia, with its crashy ride, turbo lag and tank like reflexes and think "is this really progress?"
Billy.RS said:
After reading PH forums daily for years, now I've seen this thread I had to sign up!
I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road 4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway!
Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
Definitely calls for a readers cars thread! Love an old Volvo.I've just gone through this exact process recently, my MK1 MX5 is off the road being stripped back to standard so I can sell up, so I needed a sensible, comfortable daily driver that's cheap to run.
'Normal' 21 year-olds would be trawling through Gumtree for a 10yr old Fiesta, Corsa etc etc to get them by, what do I do:
I buy a 30 year old Volvo 340! It was £600, all original, 4 owners, 94k miles and is *the* most comfortable car I've ever driven! 80 profile sidewalls help with that a bit, but after 3 weeks I'm yet to actually 'feel' a pothole in the road
4 doors, a huge boot, maintenance parts cost absolute pennies and so far it's returning just over 35MPG... partly due to it not having the ability to go over '69'mph due it's age, and dare I push a 30 year old brick that far anyway! Credit where credit is due, 'new' cars are perfect for the average consumer who wants the mod cons but they just don't tick the boxes for me. Cars are extensions of personalities and 'cars for the people' nowadays just don't feel involed and connected enough. I'd be lucky if the Volvo is pushing around 50HP (1397cc on carb with a manual choke) but it's the most fun you'll ever have with the least amount of power possible! Mates will often crack the odd joke and laugh about it, but I can afford better tyres and service my car more regularly as a result because it is so cheap, while they're in tears when they're A3/1 series/A Class goes into a dealer and costs them a weeks pay
Edited by Billy.RS on Monday 30th July 11:48
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