RE: BMW M2 Competition: Driven

[anonymous-user]

andrewparker said:

What is it with all the literary critics on PH these days?

Standard form sadly on just about any PH Driven feature.

Criticise the prose

Criticise the car

Criticise the people who buy the car

Criticise the method by which people procure the car

That's PH Wang !

[n4aat]

sidesauce said:

GroundEffect said:

n4aat said:

It’s front engined, it’s never going to be a sports car.

So the MX5 isn't a sportscar? Or the Lotus Elan isn't a sportscar? Nonsense.

n4aat said:

It has a turbo, it’s never going to be a sports car.

So is a 488 not a sportscar? Or a 570s? Or an AMG GT-R?? More nonsense.

It’s an opinion chaps. Not a rule. You are more than welcome to your own.

By the way, I would class those as two supercars and a grand tourer. None of which appeals.

And I agree with the person that suggested the new Cayman is not a sports car by that definition. I certainly wouldn’t swap mine for one.

[anonymous-user]

n4aat said:

The MX5 suggested above is closer. The GTR is definitely not a sports car. Soortcars are about fluidity, poise, agility and sophistication, amongst other superlatives.

And some examples would be ...... ?

[gigglebug]

n4aat said:

The GTR is definitely not a sports car. Soortcars are about fluidity, poise, agility and sophistication, amongst other superlatives.

And the GTR shows none of traits you have mentioned above whatsoever?

[Tuvra]

Curv3hunter said:

57k with options. before any of the nice to have carbon, louder exhaust etc.

I have one on order with £1,829.17 worth of options, including a sports exhaust and it is coming to £52k dead on. Where on earth are you getting £57k from? Even if I added sports brakes and DCT to my order (that would be £5,200 worth of options) it's only coming to £55,475?

[daveco]

RacerMike said:

daveco said:

moonigan said:

Its 1625KG !! that's almost as heavy as the E90 M3 I had many years ago and agile is not a word I would use to describe it. On track it would eat tyres and brakes. An M2 pulled alongside me a few weeks ago. Its the first time I have seen one on the road. Its looked really nice in the metallic blue but the difference in driver position between my car and that was huge. I had to look up in the same way you do when a FFRR pulls alongside a standard road car.

It would be fantastic if BMW released an NA version using the 3.0 litre 270hp engine from the E9x series. By getting rid of the turbo and all the associated extra weight/engineering that goes with it, you'd probably be looking at a 100kg less weight.


They were going to do this with the 1 series about ten years ago iirc; release a 125i with the 216hp engine that was c. 1200kg and targeted at the younger track enthusiast, but it got shelved.

This has been done to death on so many threads. The reality is, the reason modern cars are turbocharged and North of 1500kg is because of the current regulations for safety and emissions. Of course older car are smaller and lighter. They were less safe and produced more emissions (and lets not get into the particulars of whether less emissions is actually any better).

The thing is, the only type of car you can make in 2018 is a car that's homologated for 2018 sale. Deal with it, and accept that this fantasy land where every manufacturer makes niche 900kg RWD dog box NA, 9000rpm 6 pot sports cars is exactly that: a fantasy land. One which you can actually buy into if you speak to Singer and have £1.8million.....which is exactly the realistic cost for a niche car like that. The general public aren't interested....they want comfy, refined and powerful sports saloons that are 'cheap' to run and have a monthly cost under a certain budget. That's exactly what the M2 is.

Not really the case at all. Mazda and Toyota are already using HC naturally aspirated engines in their newest MX5/Auris models. It is not a massive leap to think that BMW could offer a 6 pot HC engine considering their old N52B30/N52B25 powerplants were 10.7:1 CR and returned good MPG, with better than average emissions.

[Rawwr]

Tuvra said:

I have one on order with £1,829.17 worth of options, including a sports exhaust and it is coming to £52k dead on. Where on earth are you getting £57k from? Even if I added sports brakes and DCT to my order (that would be £5,200 worth of options) it's only coming to £55,475?

If you check absolutely every single option on the configurator, it does come out to about £57k

[irish boy]

I like it.

Had a shot in a standard manual m2 last week and was very impressed. Lovely thing to drive.

[Mafffew]

n4aat said:

I’m sorry, but it’s a saloon car. It’s never going to be a sports car.

It’s front engined, it’s never going to be a sports car.

It has a turbo, it’s never going to be a sports car.

Plus it still looks bloated, bruising and chavtastic.

Hilarious. Your definition of a sports car effectively eliminates the majority of all sports cars on sale today.

[Tuvra]

Rawwr said:

Tuvra said:

I have one on order with £1,829.17 worth of options, including a sports exhaust and it is coming to £52k dead on. Where on earth are you getting £57k from? Even if I added sports brakes and DCT to my order (that would be £5,200 worth of options) it's only coming to £55,475?

If you check absolutely every single option on the configurator, it does come out to about £57k

I can only imagine

For comparison I just started spec'ing a Cayman S, I've picked the colour, the wheels and the seats and the extras are already £5k. I continued briefly and even selecting realistic options like upgraded headlights, PDK, parking sensors etc it's cruised past the £60k mark. With everything ticked (bar changing the colour of things like the door handles etc) it's £80k more or less

[the Carguy]

Great Car,Poor Article...

[Roma101]

I 8 a 4RE said:

Let me post the most unpopular comment of the day:

"But if I were signing off on my monthly payments, right here, right now: for the first time since the Cayman's introduction, I wouldn't make them to Porsche."

WOW the Autocar Propaganda machine to get everybody on car payments (80% done for new cars) is going strong.

Here's a maverick thought; how's about we teach the young people of this country to not go into debt to pay more out of pocket for depreciating liabilities (especially as this money lines the pockets of non British companies).

Perhaps ... people could save money, be prudent, buy and actually own cars... That would be madness.

Or perhaps people like you could stop treating everyone who finances a car as an idiot and just accept that other people live their lifes differently.

Edited by Roma101 on Monday 30th July 11:41

Edited by Roma101 on Monday 30th July 11:41

[Notanotherturbo]

It never ceases to amaze me why people are surprised new cars are heavy . Put all those electric seat motors, built in sat navs and premium car audio systems, extra ECUs , soundproofing, crash reinforcement strengthening, air bag systems, bigger wheels and tyres on a similar size 80s car (in this case an E30 3 series) and it would weigh a few hundred kilos more too.

[E65Ross]

n4aat said:

sidesauce said:

GroundEffect said:

n4aat said:

It’s front engined, it’s never going to be a sports car.

So the MX5 isn't a sportscar? Or the Lotus Elan isn't a sportscar? Nonsense.

n4aat said:

It has a turbo, it’s never going to be a sports car.

So is a 488 not a sportscar? Or a 570s? Or an AMG GT-R?? More nonsense.

It’s an opinion chaps. Not a rule. You are more than welcome to your own.

By the way, I would class those as two supercars and a grand tourer. None of which appeals.

And I agree with the person that suggested the new Cayman is not a sports car by that definition. I certainly wouldn’t swap mine for one.

Ah, I see. I think I, along with many others, got confused because you appeared to state it as a fact. You didn't say "It has a turbo, it’s never going to be a sports car in my opinion

[kars]

1625kg !!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF ????????

[percymk4]

Tuvra said:

Rawwr said:

Tuvra said:

I have one on order with £1,829.17 worth of options, including a sports exhaust and it is coming to £52k dead on. Where on earth are you getting £57k from? Even if I added sports brakes and DCT to my order (that would be £5,200 worth of options) it's only coming to £55,475?

If you check absolutely every single option on the configurator, it does come out to about £57k

I can only imagine

For comparison I just started spec'ing a Cayman S, I've picked the colour, the wheels and the seats and the extras are already £5k. I continued briefly and even selecting realistic options like upgraded headlights, PDK, parking sensors etc it's cruised past the £60k mark. With everything ticked (bar changing the colour of things like the door handles etc) it's £80k more or less

That's mental

[kars]

JMF894 said:

To say it has to be sub 1000kgs, rwd and have a N/A engine is utter tripe imho

Mazda MX-5 ND

[RacerMike]

percymk4 said:

Tuvra said:

Rawwr said:

Tuvra said:

I have one on order with £1,829.17 worth of options, including a sports exhaust and it is coming to £52k dead on. Where on earth are you getting £57k from? Even if I added sports brakes and DCT to my order (that would be £5,200 worth of options) it's only coming to £55,475?

If you check absolutely every single option on the configurator, it does come out to about £57k

I can only imagine

For comparison I just started spec'ing a Cayman S, I've picked the colour, the wheels and the seats and the extras are already £5k. I continued briefly and even selecting realistic options like upgraded headlights, PDK, parking sensors etc it's cruised past the £60k mark. With everything ticked (bar changing the colour of things like the door handles etc) it's £80k more or less

That's mental

Want to know something even more mental. A TVR Sagaris in 2005 was £49,995 new. In today's money that's £71,000! I'm amazed they ever sold any....

[kars]

Notanotherturbo said:

It never ceases to amaze me why people are surprised new cars are heavy . Put all those electric seat motors, built in sat navs and premium car audio systems, extra ECUs , soundproofing, crash reinforcement strengthening, air bag systems, bigger wheels and tyres on a similar size 80s car (in this case an E30 3 series) and it would weigh a few hundred kilos more too.

Agree!
Or you can take out all that carp, weight savings are massive!
My daily (I am not joking)
From 1390kg > ~1100kg

[Collaudatore]

andrewparker said:

What is it with all the literary critics on PH these days?

This is PH. Forum posts consist of:

<10% relevant discussion on the car/article
40% critical assessment of article
47% arguments
3% "other" comments

PH Forums. Discussing the cars doesn't matter.