RE: Aston Martin DBS Superleggera: Driven
Discussion
cayman-black said:
robm3 said:
Aston vs Ferrari?
Perhaps we should ask Danny Wilde and Brett Sinclair to 'Persuade' us which one is best... showing my age
lol , i loved the Persuaders, one week my favorite was the Dino next the DBS.Perhaps we should ask Danny Wilde and Brett Sinclair to 'Persuade' us which one is best... showing my age
Seems Aston has done as usual and produced the words best GT.
The Surveyor said:
It's back to Clarkson and Coogan comparing the Vanquish S to the 575 in one of the best filmed Top Gear sequences ever, all the stats say 'Ferrari' but the Aston pips for being that little bit more desirable. For me, it would be this Aston DBS as a do-it-all GT.
Am I the only one who finds I strange that Ferrari use the name 'Superfast' in English rather than 'Super veloce' where the very English Aston uses 'Superleggera in it's name'. And yes I know the history for the 'Touring' links and I know the DBS isn't very light...
500 Superfast was aimes at American market iirc? Then just brought back the nameAm I the only one who finds I strange that Ferrari use the name 'Superfast' in English rather than 'Super veloce' where the very English Aston uses 'Superleggera in it's name'. And yes I know the history for the 'Touring' links and I know the DBS isn't very light...
7795 said:
swisstoni said:
Cars are eventually just going to be a massive grille with a roller skate on the back.
In 10 years, a large % of all the cars on the road won't need a grill; point taken though.Twoshoe said:
robm3 said:
Aston vs Ferrari?
Perhaps we should ask Danny Wilde and Brett Sinclair to 'Persuade' us which one is best... showing my age
I remember it too if it's any comfort - best tv theme tune ever!Perhaps we should ask Danny Wilde and Brett Sinclair to 'Persuade' us which one is best... showing my age
So when you look at the V8 Vantage and DB9 of recent vintage, and these new offerings the simple elegance of both has been completely lost. They were flawed....but.... they were beautiful and these are....well ugly and flawed. And like the DB9/DBS, this new one is basically the same conceit- an existing car dressed in high heels. Sure we all kid ourselves that new is better than the previous, how else would we have moved on from the horse and cart? Yet the reality is 600 or 700bhp is too much to use on our modern roads, and the cars are pretty irrelevant on a track. We are confronted by cars that can make us feel like heroes when we press the accelerator and maybe more significantly when we open our wallets, but can't actually be exploited. So is it any surprise the market for £250k+ recreations is growing so fast, be it Alfaholics or Singer? Beautiful cars with heritage and 'enough' horsepower, made by people that provide a modern twist to the sort of motoring we really strive for. Yes of course we all want to see progress, and yes I think it's great that car manufactures still strive to make new product...but when I see this I can't help but think it is a motoring cul-de-sac of the first order
Robert-nszl1 said:
So when you look at the V8 Vantage and DB9 of recent vintage, and these new offerings the simple elegance of both has been completely lost. They were flawed....but.... they were beautiful and these are....well ugly and flawed. And like the DB9/DBS, this new one is basically the same conceit- an existing car dressed in high heels. Sure we all kid ourselves that new is better than the previous, how else would we have moved on from the horse and cart? Yet the reality is 600 or 700bhp is too much to use on our modern roads, and the cars are pretty irrelevant on a track. We are confronted by cars that can make us feel like heroes when we press the accelerator and maybe more significantly when we open our wallets, but can't actually be exploited. So is it any surprise the market for £250k+ recreations is growing so fast, be it Alfaholics or Singer? Beautiful cars with heritage and 'enough' horsepower, made by people that provide a modern twist to the sort of motoring we really strive for. Yes of course we all want to see progress, and yes I think it's great that car manufactures still strive to make new product...but when I see this I can't help but think it is a motoring cul-de-sac of the first order
To me, the old V8 Vantage and DB9 just look, well... old. While they were were nice enough in their time, they also look extremely dated in the 21st Century; I'm not the biggest fan of this DBS but I must admit that is has a real brutish, muscular 'presence' to it and there are a couple of DB11 owners who I regularly see around where I live who always make me double take; I think the DB11 is a truly beautiful, modern and elegant design in the metal. To say that 600bhp is too much on our roads is somewhat disingenuous as it's arguable that we don't need 300bhp cars on our roads either (in fact, you tell us - what exact amount of horsepower should be the reasonable limit in your opinion?); people buy these cars because essentially they're paying for the name and prestige (and thus the 'feel-good/hero' factor) associated with the brand and the power potential, not necessarily the realisation of said potential - bear in mind too that Aston were also making 600bhp cars 20 years ago with the Vantage V600 so this DBS isn't exactly anything new for them power-wise.
I'd say one of the main reasons the 'restomod' market is growing so fast is that it's they're investments; most of those cars aren't even driven significantly, they're put away and then sold later for a ridiculous profit. They're for a totally different purpose as no-one would buy an old Porsche or Alfa made by the people you mention as a daily driver over one of these, a Bentley CGT or RR Wraith - ok, the odd one or two might but those exceptions would only serve to prove the rule!
Finally, a motoring cul-de-sac? Maybe, but mechanical watches are a horological cul-de-sac too and, well, you know... Plus, realistically, aren't all ICE cars soon to become obsolescent anyway? If ICE cars like these are on the way out, what a way to go!
sidesauce said:
Robert-nszl1 said:
So when you look at the V8 Vantage and DB9 of recent vintage, and these new offerings the simple elegance of both has been completely lost. They were flawed....but.... they were beautiful and these are....well ugly and flawed. And like the DB9/DBS, this new one is basically the same conceit- an existing car dressed in high heels. Sure we all kid ourselves that new is better than the previous, how else would we have moved on from the horse and cart? Yet the reality is 600 or 700bhp is too much to use on our modern roads, and the cars are pretty irrelevant on a track. We are confronted by cars that can make us feel like heroes when we press the accelerator and maybe more significantly when we open our wallets, but can't actually be exploited. So is it any surprise the market for £250k+ recreations is growing so fast, be it Alfaholics or Singer? Beautiful cars with heritage and 'enough' horsepower, made by people that provide a modern twist to the sort of motoring we really strive for. Yes of course we all want to see progress, and yes I think it's great that car manufactures still strive to make new product...but when I see this I can't help but think it is a motoring cul-de-sac of the first order
To me, the old V8 Vantage and DB9 just look, well... old. While they were were nice enough in their time, they also look extremely dated in the 21st Century; I'm not the biggest fan of this DBS but I must admit that is has a real brutish, muscular 'presence' to it and there are a couple of DB11 owners who I regularly see around where I live who always make me double take; I think the DB11 is a truly beautiful, modern and elegant design in the metal. To say that 600bhp is too much on our roads is somewhat disingenuous as it's arguable that we don't need 300bhp cars on our roads either (in fact, you tell us - what exact amount of horsepower should be the reasonable limit in your opinion?); people buy these cars because essentially they're paying for the name and prestige (and thus the 'feel-good/hero' factor) associated with the brand and the power potential, not necessarily the realisation of said potential - bear in mind too that Aston were also making 600bhp cars 20 years ago with the Vantage V600 so this DBS isn't exactly anything new for them power-wise.
I'd say one of the main reasons the 'restomod' market is growing so fast is that it's they're investments; most of those cars aren't even driven significantly, they're put away and then sold later for a ridiculous profit. They're for a totally different purpose as no-one would buy an old Porsche or Alfa made by the people you mention as a daily driver over one of these, a Bentley CGT or RR Wraith - ok, the odd one or two might but those exceptions would only serve to prove the rule!
Finally, a motoring cul-de-sac? Maybe, but mechanical watches are a horological cul-de-sac too and, well, you know... Plus, realistically, aren't all ICE cars soon to become obsolescent anyway? If ICE cars like these are on the way out, what a way to go!
Edited by Robert-nszl1 on Thursday 2nd August 11:09
Guvernator said:
E65Ross said:
Bentley CGT is a much better GT judging by the reviews, the interior is leagues better, too!
Conversely I'd never by a CGT, no matter how good the reviews were as I'm not a fan of the looks or image.Robert-nszl1 said:
Beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder, and I'm not suggesting bhp should be limited, more that it's getting ever more pointless. And are we really saying these cars will be driven any more than the restomods? I somehow doubt it. Maybe DB11s are, but these will surely just end up sitting next to the Singer in the heated garage. It would be easy to argue I'm just getting older, but that would imply no new car stirs my soul, whereas certain cars do. The sadly flawed(and ok not really new now) 4C, and the new Alpine certainly do, as indeed do some of the premium GTs like the Wraith (yes despite the bhp! But it's a GT not trying to be anything else) . Perhaps it's the move to ever more aerodynamic sophistication that often makes for such ugly lines. Perhaps it's just trying to make a sports car out of a 2 ton GT that I find a bit uninteresting. Too big (as in too wide), too heavy, poor gearbox, almost certainly disappointing handling...and ugly!
On your point regarding subjective beauty, we're agreed. I find the 'form follows function' credo producing some genuinely interesting and even beautiful designs in the more modern machinery out there and this car is in part influenced by that; I would gladly wager the average, non-petrolhead person would look at a Superleggera and say it's a good-looking car; it's not a 'jellymould' like a Golf or Qashqai.Like I said before, Aston creating a 600bhp Vantage 20 years ago was pointless too, even more so back then as that car couldn't really handle its power well, but I'm still very glad they did so!
On the point regarding mileage, I have to disagree based upon the cars on sale in the secondhand market; a quick scan of Autotrader can easily find the antecedent DBS with readings of over 60k miles on the tach so there's no reason for the new car to be any different and neither this, a CGT or a Wraith are limited edition models to my knowledge. Are you telling me that a typical Singer, a car that won't have many examples in existence, will have anywhere near the same sort of mileage? Somehow, I very much doubt it.
As for size and proportion, that depends on where you live; maybe fighting through the streets of London the width is an issue but in the streets of LA, Dubai and Miami it really isn't, at all.
E65Ross said:
I don't mind the looks (prefer the Aston), and RE the image, I couldn't care less what other people perceive me to be if they make judgements on an individual purely based upon the car they drive. I certainly wouldn't spend around £200k on something that wasn't the best and I wasn't entirely satisfied with it when there's something better out there just because someone else I've never met might think I'm a footballer or something!
But the Aston is not dire either is it? In fact it's a very very good car and you've admitted it looks better. I'm not just talking footballers either. Bentley used to be a make with class, now it's just another notch in VW's belt, a big brash German bruiser which screams new money and has none of the old grace that Bentley's used to have, sorry not for me. It might not matter to you but a Super GT costing north of £200k is all about image, whether you care or not.
Can't say I am a particular fan of the DB11's looks, but this looks utterly wonderful to my eyes. Sadly, the interior looks to let it down.
Whilst I'm here on my soapbox, I see the 812 has had wonderful reviews as expected. In between the praising of the drivetrain, I read about the iffy driving position and droney exhaust. And yet, of course, it scores maximum points.
Here's where I would be interested to know if the Aston fights back - on actually living with the thing. I think the issue is the journos get the car for a day and don't have time to do anything other than tell us what it's like to drive flat out. The DBS and 812 are not track day cars and should be assessed as the every day cars the makers intend them to be.
The reason why it's a bugbear of mine is that I drove my RS6 to a specialist dealer to test drive an F12 earlier this year. I went expected to hand over my money, and came away disappointed. The interior was cheap and completely nonsensical to use. It made no noise unless you really went for it, and when you did it span up the wheels. At anything less than 8/10ths my RS6 felt quicker, quieter (in terms of NVH), louder (exhaust) and more comfortable.
I guess what i'm saying here is it's easy to write the Aston off, but I would like to see it given a fair shot across all disciplines, not just on it's driftability (i.e. what 99% of owners won't actually use it for).
Whilst I'm here on my soapbox, I see the 812 has had wonderful reviews as expected. In between the praising of the drivetrain, I read about the iffy driving position and droney exhaust. And yet, of course, it scores maximum points.
Here's where I would be interested to know if the Aston fights back - on actually living with the thing. I think the issue is the journos get the car for a day and don't have time to do anything other than tell us what it's like to drive flat out. The DBS and 812 are not track day cars and should be assessed as the every day cars the makers intend them to be.
The reason why it's a bugbear of mine is that I drove my RS6 to a specialist dealer to test drive an F12 earlier this year. I went expected to hand over my money, and came away disappointed. The interior was cheap and completely nonsensical to use. It made no noise unless you really went for it, and when you did it span up the wheels. At anything less than 8/10ths my RS6 felt quicker, quieter (in terms of NVH), louder (exhaust) and more comfortable.
I guess what i'm saying here is it's easy to write the Aston off, but I would like to see it given a fair shot across all disciplines, not just on it's driftability (i.e. what 99% of owners won't actually use it for).
Edited by hondansx on Thursday 2nd August 11:58
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