RE: Prior Convictions: McLaren Senna, road warrior
Discussion
McLaren Automotive are all about making a quick buck in whichever possible way and do not seem to care about residuals, which is a direct way of taking the piss at their customers. It is quite revealing to hear about unacceptable quality issues poor customer treatment on the McLaren forum. TVRs used to break down quite a bit but customers seemed to be treated a little better even if the cars cost far less new.
There is no questioning that the cars may be great when everything works but like with most low volume British specialist cars since the beginning of the industrial era, they may spend more time being worked on than being driven
It is nothing short of baffling to see a car maker not focused in setting up an efficient after sale network. The top down approach may have worked with a single car in the range like the F1 which was tremendously expensive back in its day and when decision makers were engineers from the racing field, but with so many cars in the range and a technical diversity involving probably quite a bit more suppliers, outsourced components and with modern day style bean counters at the end of the decision process, this will not fare well unless they step down their high horse and let independents service the cars. With too little servicing capacity from the official network they won't be building up the bottom up approach necessary to feed their quality dept anytime soon.
So back on topic, this Senna still ranks among the worst-looking cars ever made, and whether it were faster than a hypersonic jet or slower than a Nova would make no difference whatsoever to how I would not want to be seen dead in one, either on the track on the road.
There is no questioning that the cars may be great when everything works but like with most low volume British specialist cars since the beginning of the industrial era, they may spend more time being worked on than being driven
It is nothing short of baffling to see a car maker not focused in setting up an efficient after sale network. The top down approach may have worked with a single car in the range like the F1 which was tremendously expensive back in its day and when decision makers were engineers from the racing field, but with so many cars in the range and a technical diversity involving probably quite a bit more suppliers, outsourced components and with modern day style bean counters at the end of the decision process, this will not fare well unless they step down their high horse and let independents service the cars. With too little servicing capacity from the official network they won't be building up the bottom up approach necessary to feed their quality dept anytime soon.
So back on topic, this Senna still ranks among the worst-looking cars ever made, and whether it were faster than a hypersonic jet or slower than a Nova would make no difference whatsoever to how I would not want to be seen dead in one, either on the track on the road.
isaldiri said:
Always easier to have a go at the person than have to debate some of the points brought up I suppose.
I have tried engaging them in a meaningful debate but they aren’t interested.Contrary to what it may appear I don’t try and defend every criticism of McLaren.
I know the company and the cars are not perfect - far from it.
You may not like the cars, the styling whatever. Fine.
But when posters ignorantly question the motivations and abilities of the people that work there in an abusive manner (presumably to make themselves seem outrageous and thereby somehow interesting) I tend to respond. I have some good friends there. Passionate and talented people.
As regards a poster who routinely criticises the brand, cars, people in every thread available - what if it comes to light they were previously knocked back at interview there - would that not be interesting to know? At least we’d all know their real motivation.
But I’ll take a step back. Point taken.
andyj007 said:
they look so stupid and ugly with those wings.. and mismatch of poor design and panel integration no track - road trip or photo manipulation is gonna change that..
no excuse oh its a track car blah blah blah.. a clever group of people would be able to design something pretty and fast..
what an epic fail of missed opportunity..
how can anyone look at that and be genuinely proud to own such a mismatch of bits is beyond me..
I'm with this guy.no excuse oh its a track car blah blah blah.. a clever group of people would be able to design something pretty and fast..
what an epic fail of missed opportunity..
how can anyone look at that and be genuinely proud to own such a mismatch of bits is beyond me..
Edited by andyj007 on Saturday 4th August 07:23
BFleming said:
I saw this very car on the M25 (clockwise) on Saturday 14th July, being driven very sedately. Ironic as that was Goodwood FoS day.
I thought it looked stunning, although the glass on the lower door is pointless. Completely so.
As taken by my passenger:
Imo, that looks hideous, just look at the proportions of the rear wing compared to the rest of the car...I thought it looked stunning, although the glass on the lower door is pointless. Completely so.
As taken by my passenger:
Downfarce or no downfarce (sic) looks like it was designed by a hyperactive five year old..
BFleming said:
I thought it looked stunning, although the glass on the lower door is pointless. Completely so.
]
...and yet, had you read the article, it is reported that at low speed, for manouevering it does seem to have purpose. And an 80% option uptake also proves it to have aesthetic appeal to those who actually matter i.e. not us. ]
s2000db said:
BFleming said:
I saw this very car on the M25 (clockwise) on Saturday 14th July, being driven very sedately. Ironic as that was Goodwood FoS day.
I thought it looked stunning, although the glass on the lower door is pointless. Completely so.
As taken by my passenger:
Imo, that looks hideous, just look at the proportions of the rear wing compared to the rest of the car...I thought it looked stunning, although the glass on the lower door is pointless. Completely so.
As taken by my passenger:
Downfarce or no downfarce (sic) looks like it was designed by a hyperactive five year old..
I believe if this didn't have a McLaren badge on it and was designed by some unheard of company, then it wouldn't be taken seriously at all, regardless of how well it performed.
A friend has the very enviable job of driving this (and all other McLarens) round track and road day in and day out. It's not his favourite to drive (neither is the much fabled 720s - if he had to own one only it's the 600LT) but he has said many times that it is stupidly fast round a track - and the Aero etc. is a big factor in that. Function over beauty has been mentioned a few times on here, and it's absolutely true.
That wing's where it can be most aerodynamically effective, presumably, right up in the air that hasn't been disrupted, but that side-on on the M25 does start to be vaguely reminiscent of the high wing F1 cars that appeared a period of the 60s until banned.
My personal opinion of the car's nigh on irrelevant though, even to me
My personal opinion of the car's nigh on irrelevant though, even to me
Maldini35 said:
What is curious is why you have such an axe to grind with regards McLaren?
I genuinely don’t know if there is any truth in the comment made previously about you being rejected at interview for a position at McLaren but it would certainly make sense given you pop up on every McLaren thread to put the boot in.
Obviously you have no obligation to confirm or deny but it might bring some clarity / help restore some credibility.
So you miss the point where I said Id be happy to own 3 of their previous offerings? I genuinely don’t know if there is any truth in the comment made previously about you being rejected at interview for a position at McLaren but it would certainly make sense given you pop up on every McLaren thread to put the boot in.
Obviously you have no obligation to confirm or deny but it might bring some clarity / help restore some credibility.
In terms of job applications. Its on another thread. I applied for a job, (QC Auditor ) they weren't paying anything like market rate for my experience and skills. (roughly 30% less!) Once the salary package was mentioned, it died instantly. There was no interview. There was no point. Im not taking the pay cut. YMMV. Such is life.
For reference I know someone who applied to work at McLaren Ascot last year. (Granted that's Jardines not McLaren) Similar problem. Low wages seen as acceptable "because McLaren" Also inference was Overtime at short notice was the norm, and you should accept that as part of the package. As he said to me, child under 1, wife, couple of cars and a mortgage ruled it out pretty quickly.
isaldiri said:
While it's your prerogative to leap up to defend Mclaren on just about any topic, having to resort to the above is pretty pathetic. Always easier to have a go at the person than have to debate some of the points brought up I suppose.
I can only assume (being the mother...) that they feel physical pain when someone critiques how the Woking operation does things. Hence why they can't address some fairly basic points. Which I believe most people have raised politely without attacking any other posters. I don't think anyone is thinking that the cars they turn out are crap (they simply aren't) It's more the design language/management/ poss overall direction that causes a raised eyebrow or 2.I guess some simply cant bear a counter opinion
noble12345 said:
McLaren is above Ferrari and Porsche and this Senna is in Pagani & Koenigsegg league for sure.
Firstly, in terms of product quality. Porsche are way ahead of the others. Your child like endorsing of Senna and blasé dismissals of 918 and LaFerrari (and by default the P1 since it was a contemporary of those) point to someone who just sees the latest thing and decides it's the best. I would suggest all og the Holy Trinity are not just better cars than the Senna. They are all far more beautiful.
Pagani whilst the V12 is mega, is another oddity. Just making a million different editions of the same 2 cars.. And Koenisegg isnt even in the same ballpark in terms of numbers produced. And from what I hear quality is patchy.
Rich_W said:
Maldini35 said:
What is curious is why you have such an axe to grind with regards McLaren?
I genuinely don’t know if there is any truth in the comment made previously about you being rejected at interview for a position at McLaren but it would certainly make sense given you pop up on every McLaren thread to put the boot in.
Obviously you have no obligation to confirm or deny but it might bring some clarity / help restore some credibility.
So you miss the point where I said Id be happy to own 3 of their previous offerings? I genuinely don’t know if there is any truth in the comment made previously about you being rejected at interview for a position at McLaren but it would certainly make sense given you pop up on every McLaren thread to put the boot in.
Obviously you have no obligation to confirm or deny but it might bring some clarity / help restore some credibility.
In terms of job applications. Its on another thread. I applied for a job, (QC Auditor ) they weren't paying anything like market rate for my experience and skills. (roughly 30% less!) Once the salary package was mentioned, it died instantly. There was no interview. There was no point. Im not taking the pay cut. YMMV. Such is life.
For reference I know someone who applied to work at McLaren Ascot last year. (Granted that's Jardines not McLaren) Similar problem. Low wages seen as acceptable "because McLaren" Also inference was Overtime at short notice was the norm, and you should accept that as part of the package. As he said to me, child under 1, wife, couple of cars and a mortgage ruled it out pretty quickly.
isaldiri said:
While it's your prerogative to leap up to defend Mclaren on just about any topic, having to resort to the above is pretty pathetic. Always easier to have a go at the person than have to debate some of the points brought up I suppose.
I can only assume (being the mother...) that they feel physical pain when someone critiques how the Woking operation does things. Hence why they can't address some fairly basic points. Which I believe most people have raised politely without attacking any other posters. I don't think anyone is thinking that the cars they turn out are crap (they simply aren't) It's more the design language/management/ poss overall direction that causes a raised eyebrow or 2.I guess some simply cant bear a counter opinion
noble12345 said:
McLaren is above Ferrari and Porsche and this Senna is in Pagani & Koenigsegg league for sure.
Firstly, in terms of product quality. Porsche are way ahead of the others. Your child like endorsing of Senna and blasé dismissals of 918 and LaFerrari (and by default the P1 since it was a contemporary of those) point to someone who just sees the latest thing and decides it's the best. I would suggest all og the Holy Trinity are not just better cars than the Senna. They are all far more beautiful.
Pagani whilst the V12 is mega, is another oddity. Just making a million different editions of the same 2 cars.. And Koenisegg isnt even in the same ballpark in terms of numbers produced. And from what I hear quality is patchy.
I’ll now go back to the naughty step
Following on from my pictures above, I remembered that I googled the number plate of the yellow car after I saw it, and found this video (posted on 6th May): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VMjbMNnPlE&t=...
This particular car is registered as a works pre-production car, and as such doesn't have a CO2 value in the V5. I guess that doesn't stop them selling it to someone. Apparently.
This particular car is registered as a works pre-production car, and as such doesn't have a CO2 value in the V5. I guess that doesn't stop them selling it to someone. Apparently.
BFleming said:
Following on from my pictures above, I remembered that I googled the number plate of the yellow car after I saw it, and found this video (posted on 6th May): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VMjbMNnPlE&t=...
This particular car is registered as a works pre-production car, and as such doesn't have a CO2 value in the V5. I guess that doesn't stop them selling it to someone. Apparently.
Why do you think they have sold it to somebody ?This particular car is registered as a works pre-production car, and as such doesn't have a CO2 value in the V5. I guess that doesn't stop them selling it to someone. Apparently.
It’s on McLaren factory plates and was in Belgium as part of a piece of factory promotional activity.
Brooking10 said:
Why do you think they have sold it to somebody ?
It’s on McLaren factory plates and was in Belgium as part of a piece of factory promotional activity.
Sorry, I got confused by the opening lines of the article, specifically mentioning chassis 001, which I assumed was the yellow one. Wrongly, or maybe correctly - I'm still confused.It’s on McLaren factory plates and was in Belgium as part of a piece of factory promotional activity.
BFleming said:
Sorry, I got confused by the opening lines of the article, specifically mentioning chassis 001, which I assumed was the yellow one. Wrongly, or maybe correctly - I'm still confused.
Ah.
The numbered chassis are the customer cars so 001 is the first built customer car, in this case it’s the white and blue one I believe.
Brooking10 said:
BFleming said:
Sorry, I got confused by the opening lines of the article, specifically mentioning chassis 001, which I assumed was the yellow one. Wrongly, or maybe correctly - I'm still confused.
Ah.
The numbered chassis are the customer cars so 001 is the first built customer car, in this case it’s the white and blue one I believe.
JLC25 said:
A friend has the very enviable job of driving this (and all other McLarens) round track and road day in and day out. It's not his favourite to drive (neither is the much fabled 720s - if he had to own one only it's the 600LT) but he has said many times that it is stupidly fast round a track - and the Aero etc. is a big factor in that. Function over beauty has been mentioned a few times on here, and it's absolutely true.
Does his name begin with R ?He's a Lovely chap if it’s the guy I am thinking about.
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