RE: BMW M5 Competition: Driven
Discussion
handpaper said:
Yeah, yeah. Very big, very fast, very tech. It's a modern M5; I'm sure many would love one.
But 'Competition'? No.
It's not a race car, it's not even a homologation special. It's never even going to see a race track outside of a track day (yeah, right) or product launch.
Even the M2/3/4 'Competition (Pack)' versions don't deserve the name. They're not for racing and never will be. The only competition involved is between investors trying to pick the version that will give the best return.
If Munich put out a stripped out, slimmed down, race prepped beast, preferably with a sponsored race series for it to compete in, that would deserve the tag 'Competition'.
These don't. They're just marketing dreck.
Dude, chill But 'Competition'? No.
It's not a race car, it's not even a homologation special. It's never even going to see a race track outside of a track day (yeah, right) or product launch.
Even the M2/3/4 'Competition (Pack)' versions don't deserve the name. They're not for racing and never will be. The only competition involved is between investors trying to pick the version that will give the best return.
If Munich put out a stripped out, slimmed down, race prepped beast, preferably with a sponsored race series for it to compete in, that would deserve the tag 'Competition'.
These don't. They're just marketing dreck.
It's a name, who gives a f
k? It sounds like it's an even better car to drive, so just take it for what it is.Competition in cars could mean a number of things, who knows, maybe in this car it means "competition" as in "this is the car to beat the competition" where the competition would be E63 AMG, RS6 etc.
flight147z said:
Tuvra said:
E65Ross said:
M5's have always been expensive. Based upon inflation, options etc, the M5 is no more expensive than it ever was. It just comes with a better standard spec than yester-year.
The E60 was £68,000 new in 2005, according to the bank of England, £68,000 in 2005 is the equivalent of £96,527.14 in 2017
hondansx said:
wab172uk said:
Does anyone else remember when cars were classed as affordable?
Nearly £100,000 for a BMW 5 series saloon
Maybe when interest rates rise, and cheap credit and PCP deals become less affordable, car prices will actually reflect what most people earn
Are you still earning what you did 13 years ago? For reference, that's when the E60 V10 came out. Trying to get a gauge on at what point you thought these cars were 'affordable'.Nearly £100,000 for a BMW 5 series saloon
Maybe when interest rates rise, and cheap credit and PCP deals become less affordable, car prices will actually reflect what most people earn
So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
I guess the shocking thing is not so much the list price, which is about right for a comparable performance car, but how much you know it will depreciate over the coming years! M5s have always depreciated massively, but when its nearly 100K new and will end up being worth around £25K in about 6-7 years. When it cost £68K new and depreciated to just under £20K in the same time, like the E60 did, somehow it didn't seem so bad....ouch! I guess this is where leasing comes in...
The other thing is how big this gen of M5 is. Question to owners, how usable is this car on the sort of British roads where you can let a car like this off the leash?
..but I've always been an M5 fan, so this would find a place somewhere in my fantasy garage!
The other thing is how big this gen of M5 is. Question to owners, how usable is this car on the sort of British roads where you can let a car like this off the leash?
..but I've always been an M5 fan, so this would find a place somewhere in my fantasy garage!
E65Ross said:
M5's have always been expensive. Based upon inflation, options etc, the M5 is no more expensive than it ever was. It just comes with a better standard spec than yester-year.
That's what I thought, but I checked google for the launch price of the e28 M5 and got this http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/bmw/m5/336... which indicates that it was £21,805, which further googlework indicates is about £67k today. That would be about 50% inflation, which is pretty hefty.wab172uk said:
from 2007 to 2015 I had a 0% pay rise. I work in construction, and everything became tight. And for reference, both in 2005 & 2006 I got a 2% pay rise.
So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
With the greatest respect, more fool you for settling for an 8 year period. You couldn't come across any more sour grapes with your final sentence.So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
But as others have said, an M5 has never been an affordable car. They are a little more common now thanks to financing options, but as long as people have stable jobs, it's up to them on what they're comfortable to spend on a monthly basis. I don't think your view of 'living beyond their means' is factual; it comes across as a way you are justifying the world to yourself.
Oily76 said:
E65Ross said:
M5's have always been expensive. Based upon inflation, options etc, the M5 is no more expensive than it ever was. It just comes with a better standard spec than yester-year.
That's what I thought, but I checked google for the launch price of the e28 M5 and got this http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/bmw/m5/336... which indicates that it was £21,805, which further googlework indicates is about £67k today. That would be about 50% inflation, which is pretty hefty.wab172uk said:
Does anyone else remember when cars were classed as affordable?
Nearly £100,000 for a BMW 5 series saloon
Maybe when interest rates rise, and cheap credit and PCP deals become less affordable, car prices will actually reflect what most people earn
M5 isn’t aimed at most people though. They have always been expensive. My 1995 3.8 would have been knocking on £ 80,000 in today’s money when new and is far more basic than today’s offering. Nearly £100,000 for a BMW 5 series saloon
Maybe when interest rates rise, and cheap credit and PCP deals become less affordable, car prices will actually reflect what most people earn
I cannot understand why BMW have done this model. The new M5 has only been out for a few months, which raises the question of why they didn't just release the car in this specification anyway.
Certainly if I'd just lavished the best part of £100,000 on a M5 in June and now saw this model was available, I might be entitled to feel just a bit pissed off. Perhaps this unique approach to marketing is also why you hardly see a new M5 anywhere in the UK these days. They are certainly much rarer than E39 M5s were when they were on sale.
Certainly if I'd just lavished the best part of £100,000 on a M5 in June and now saw this model was available, I might be entitled to feel just a bit pissed off. Perhaps this unique approach to marketing is also why you hardly see a new M5 anywhere in the UK these days. They are certainly much rarer than E39 M5s were when they were on sale.
J4CKO said:
Epic, I struggle to get chances to exercise a much more humble fastish BMW without seriously risking my license, how do owners of stuff like this manage, 4 seconds or so from standstill and you break every speed limit in the land, so plant your foot at 40, 4 seconds or so later in ban territory, must be so easy to hit 140/150 without really trying.
Time and place for everything. You don’t need to give it the full beans everywhere. Every now and again you can push the boat out.Always puts a smile on your face
flight147z said:
Tuvra said:
E65Ross said:
M5's have always been expensive. Based upon inflation, options etc, the M5 is no more expensive than it ever was. It just comes with a better standard spec than yester-year.
The E60 was £68,000 new in 2005, according to the bank of England, £68,000 in 2005 is the equivalent of £96,527.14 in 2017
handpaper said:
Yeah, yeah. Very big, very fast, very tech. It's a modern M5; I'm sure many would love one.
But 'Competition'? No.
It's not a race car, it's not even a homologation special. It's never even going to see a race track outside of a track day (yeah, right) or product launch.
Even the M2/3/4 'Competition (Pack)' versions don't deserve the name. They're not for racing and never will be. The only competition involved is between investors trying to pick the version that will give the best return.
If Munich put out a stripped out, slimmed down, race prepped beast, preferably with a sponsored race series for it to compete in, that would deserve the tag 'Competition'.
These don't. They're just marketing dreck.
You’re over thinking this. But 'Competition'? No.
It's not a race car, it's not even a homologation special. It's never even going to see a race track outside of a track day (yeah, right) or product launch.
Even the M2/3/4 'Competition (Pack)' versions don't deserve the name. They're not for racing and never will be. The only competition involved is between investors trying to pick the version that will give the best return.
If Munich put out a stripped out, slimmed down, race prepped beast, preferably with a sponsored race series for it to compete in, that would deserve the tag 'Competition'.
These don't. They're just marketing dreck.
wab172uk said:
from 2007 to 2015 I had a 0% pay rise. I work in construction, and everything became tight. And for reference, both in 2005 & 2006 I got a 2% pay rise.
So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
Ah there it is.So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
The customary PH bingo finance response on a new German car review.
hondansx said:
wab172uk said:
from 2007 to 2015 I had a 0% pay rise. I work in construction, and everything became tight. And for reference, both in 2005 & 2006 I got a 2% pay rise.
So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
With the greatest respect, more fool you for settling for an 8 year period. You couldn't come across any more sour grapes with your final sentence.So while cars may have jumped 40%, unless you are very fortunate, 95% of the publics wages won't have grown 40% to match.
That's why PCP deals are so popular. People are living way beyond their means. For some people, just a 0.5-1% interest rate increase would but them in financial difficulty. But hey, at least they have an RS3, C63S, RS6, M5 etc sat on their driveways, so all their neighbours think they are very well off.
But as others have said, an M5 has never been an affordable car. They are a little more common now thanks to financing options, but as long as people have stable jobs, it's up to them on what they're comfortable to spend on a monthly basis. I don't think your view of 'living beyond their means' is factual; it comes across as a way you are justifying the world to yourself.
More fool me? The whole industry took a huge hit when the financial crisis hit. Contracts were cancelled or postponed. Main contractors squeezed the sub-contractors to limit their losses. Big main contractors were bidding on projects at a loss, just to keep work flowing. All had money set aside for project losses.
So simply jumping to another company wouldn't have made a difference to my wages. I may have found another company would have wanted to pay me less. Eventually, due to losses I was made redundant and set up working for myself.
People forget. The private sector isn't protected like the public sector workers are. We can't go on strike over a small pay rise or pay freeze.
But things have improved over the last few years, and wages have rose (slowly). Yet 2 sub-contract construction companies near me have gone bust within the last 12 months due to tight margins, and eventual losses.
I'm not jealous of anyone who can buy / lease and M5. If you have the money, and you can afford it. Great. I've had nice cars over the years. All the Hot Hatches, sports saloons, sports cars etc. All paid for either on standard credit, or paid for outright. But that's the thing. People are now driving around in cars that 10 years ago (pre-PCP) would have been beyond their wages.
notread said:
Not interested in the car, but that lead photo is an absolute cracker - perfect composition with the diagonal of the road and the perspective really emphasises the drama. Presumably it's a BMW press shot? I wonder how much digital processing/manipulation was required?
PH have worked really hard to make that pic very small, remove as many pixels as possible and not provide a link to the full-res one though.Here's a proper-sized version for you: https://i.imgur.com/fgb58A2.jpg
Brooking10 said:
wab172uk said:
Bad thing.
Do us all a favour and shout bout it on one of the many many existing threads about car finance.If people want to load themselves in debt? Knock yourselves out. But don't cry about it, blaming the banks, government, next doors cat, when it all goes wrong. Yet, no doubt, those of us you live within our means will just end up paying extra tax to pay for those who were irresponsible.
Sounds fair.
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