Used cars not selling?
Discussion
Drive Blind said:
from what I see nobody wants a 12 year old car.
Nobody in my street has a 12 year old car and I think I'd struggle to find a vehicle of that age in the works car park.
This made me smile - my daily was 12 earlier this year and my weekend toy will be 12 in December. I must live in a terrible area! Nobody in my street has a 12 year old car and I think I'd struggle to find a vehicle of that age in the works car park.
But then I bought them - I don't pay for finance that I don't need!
I think the demand for used cars will always be there
Back in 2015, a good friend of mine went into a new Audi A4 Avant 2.0TDI S-Line PCP deal. Barely ticked an option (stupidly), tried to keep the mileage down and didn't really make the most of it. Two years into the three-year deal he decided to opt out and naturally then got his pants pulled down by Audi.
He then went on to buy a 4-year-old specced-up Qashqai from an independant dealer - the car he probably should've bought all along. Still has the car now.
Fascinating thread. Lets hope it continues to get better
Back in 2015, a good friend of mine went into a new Audi A4 Avant 2.0TDI S-Line PCP deal. Barely ticked an option (stupidly), tried to keep the mileage down and didn't really make the most of it. Two years into the three-year deal he decided to opt out and naturally then got his pants pulled down by Audi.
He then went on to buy a 4-year-old specced-up Qashqai from an independant dealer - the car he probably should've bought all along. Still has the car now.
Fascinating thread. Lets hope it continues to get better
lornemalvo said:
As a potential cash buyer within the next few months, it's disappointing that cash is no longer king. I know lease deals make sense for some people, but I can't stand the thought of monthly payments going out for something I'll never own. It used to stress me out back when HP was my only option, I'm totally averse to being in debt, although most people seem to embrace it quite happily, and to ridiculous levels of risk (insane in my opinion and part of the reason so many people are 2 or 3 pay cheques away from ruin). I have the cash to buy a car, and because of crap savings rates it makes sense to use it to buy a car, but being what I consider to be responsible with money (and saving) it is actually a disadvantage when negotiating
You want to get rid of cash because the interest rates are low (I don't blame you). How do you expect a business to want that very same cash then ? Cash will actually get you the same discount as finance if you play your cards right.
The perceived idea that lease is only for irresponsible people is absurd. The fact that you'll never own the car doesn't make it any more expensive or cheaper, the depreciation of the car remains the same. There have been many examples of leased cars costing less than actual depreciation on discounted price (and vice-versa too), although there are rarer than 12 months ago.
Lease can be a very smart way to discount for manufacturers...and a very convenient way to actually get a discount not available to either cash or finance buyers. I said "can be", not "always is".
With the 'cash' deal then I think it harks back to when money traceability wasn't as sharp as it is now, money laundering checks, payment limits etc weren't as common.
The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
tannhauser said:
Wooda80 said:
Bring on the "crash"!
Despite what Gordon Brown hoped, there will never be an end to boom and bust, it's just a question of being prepared for it.
Those who have preserved their capital, rather than spunking it away flashing cash for shiny new cars, will be in a position to snap up some real bargains, just as they were able to in 2008.
Wishful thinking, but I'm with you on this.Despite what Gordon Brown hoped, there will never be an end to boom and bust, it's just a question of being prepared for it.
Those who have preserved their capital, rather than spunking it away flashing cash for shiny new cars, will be in a position to snap up some real bargains, just as they were able to in 2008.
Perhaps then we will get back to normality, where expensive cars were the preserve of those who could actually afford them.
Every time there's the slightest hint of an economic downturn they'll just drop interest rates, fire up the printing machines and allow people to take on even more cheap debt in order to keep the plates spinning.
tannhauser said:
lornemalvo said:
As a potential cash buyer within the next few months, it's disappointing that cash is no longer king. I know lease deals make sense for some people, but I can't stand the thought of monthly payments going out for something I'll never own. It used to stress me out back when HP was my only option, I'm totally averse to being in debt, although most people seem to embrace it quite happily, and to ridiculous levels of risk (insane in my opinion and part of the reason so many people are 2 or 3 pay cheques away from ruin). I have the cash to buy a car, and because of crap savings rates it makes sense to use it to buy a car, but being what I consider to be responsible with money (and saving) it is actually a disadvantage when negotiating
I'm in exactly the same position looking at a 20k 4 Series. What stupid, c
ty times we live in 
Theres no reason at all why you cant negotiate on a used or new car purchase, in fact although i often use finance of some sort i always break the deal out and negotiate separately on
- price of the car i'm buying
- value of my trade in (if any)
- rate of finance (if required)
If theres manufacturers deposit incentives to be had by taking out the finance then simply do and then cancel it within 14 days as you are perfectly entitled to do.
Do you realy think that some dealer with maybe a £million a month turnover is going to be impressed by you waving £20K at them? Its a drop in the ocean to them.
If you're not seeing big discounts when you use your "whats your best price for cash mate" line, its because there arent big discounts to be had any more rather than because you're there with cash.
lord trumpton said:
With the 'cash' deal then I think it harks back to when money traceability wasn't as sharp as it is now, money laundering checks, payment limits etc weren't as common.
The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
+1The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
Wholly all of this.
We're in whats becoming a cashless society.
mike74 said:
I'm another one who would love to see this happen, but I just can't see it now, at least not in most current adults lifetime... it feels like they could just continue this 'extend and pretend' charade for decades.
Every time there's the slightest hint of an economic downturn they'll just drop interest rates, fire up the printing machines and allow people to take on even more cheap debt in order to keep the plates spinning.
What benefit to individuals or society would there be if credit were suddenly restricted?Every time there's the slightest hint of an economic downturn they'll just drop interest rates, fire up the printing machines and allow people to take on even more cheap debt in order to keep the plates spinning.
People being able to buy things funds people being able to make and sell them, who in turn can then afford to buy things...
Credit is not some form of evil, it's an enabler that helps economies to keep growing.
From time to time it gets out of balance and there's an adjustment.
There's occasionally a perverse snobbery in society, where people who choose not to use credit look down upon those who do. Ironically, many if not most of the cash-richest people and organisations on the planet got that way by using borrowed money.
tannhauser said:
I'm in exactly the same position looking at a 20k 4 Series. What stupid, cty times we live in
Can you to point to the used 4 series cars that are available cheaper when using HP finance than when paying for it all up front and lets just say that weird situation does exist on a used car (it doesn't but just to humour you), you can just take the finance and pay it off the next day. ty times we live in So how are you disadvantaged? I'm all ears....
MDMA . said:
tannhauser said:
Douglas Quaid said:
I looked up the first deal on the pic you posted, £89 for a Suzuki swift. £2400 initial payment! Did you not notice that bit?
No, conveniently forgotten as always 
Top tip - always go for the lowest downpayment. The end cost is almost identical.
I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go
are cars now at the point where they are treated by many as you would a biro - disposable?
giong right the other way (it may give an additional insight) I have put numerous home and garden and electronics items up for sale on the Shpock! app and the number of "offers" you get at half your advertised price or even less needs to be seen to be believed. People want the world for peanuts it seems.
with PCP where do you stand if after say a year on a 3 year deal you lose your job?
giong right the other way (it may give an additional insight) I have put numerous home and garden and electronics items up for sale on the Shpock! app and the number of "offers" you get at half your advertised price or even less needs to be seen to be believed. People want the world for peanuts it seems.
with PCP where do you stand if after say a year on a 3 year deal you lose your job?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Monday 13th August 08:52
ToothbrushMan said:
are cars now at the point where they are treated by many as you would a biro - disposable?
giong right the other way (it may give an additional insight) I have put numerous home and garden and electronics items up for sale on the Shpock! app and the number of "offers" you get at half your advertised price or even less needs to be seen to be believed. People want the world for peanuts it seems.
with PCP where do you stand if after say a year on a 3 year deal you lose your job?
Cars are predominantly being treated like people treat a mobile phone - take out a contract and replace it every couple of years.giong right the other way (it may give an additional insight) I have put numerous home and garden and electronics items up for sale on the Shpock! app and the number of "offers" you get at half your advertised price or even less needs to be seen to be believed. People want the world for peanuts it seems.
with PCP where do you stand if after say a year on a 3 year deal you lose your job?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Monday 13th August 08:52
They pay pretty much all their bills monthly so easy to budget for if its a simple monthly payment with no big adhoc bills or breakdowns out of warranty.
From people I've known who have bought cars there's a couple of mindsets that I don't think were as prevalent 10 years or so ago.
Firstly, people love to have a new car. To many it's just an expected thing that they have a new car. With the popularity of PCP deals people can have a car on their drive that they'd not in reality be able to buy. Who can blame them to a point. I have a family member who picked up an Alfa Giulia new at a price of £42k. The monthly payments on it across 4 years equate to about £17k so the reality is that's the amount that person can afford or is prepared to pay in that time. £42k car on the driveway for the monthly cost of one that you'd actually have to buy for half of that. It doesn't appeal to me personally but I can see why they do it.
The other mindset is that if you have a car outside of warranty you'll be landed with a huge repair bill so it's not worth it. That's not the reality of it but people think that a car with 30k on the clock must be about to throw up a massive bill so they'll just opt for another new car.
I can see how the market is tough for selling second hand, especially at prices that would likely require someone to borrow some cash. I mean if I were to buy a £10-12k car I'd take out a personal loan and find a bargain but then I'm prepared to run a 6+ year old car that has lost a significant sum.
It's a shame though, my cousin is 22 he's just got his first car and it's not ever going to be his as it's £200 a month! A shame really though as I loved having my own car, ok it was 7 years old but it was all mine. I guess for many they'll know no different.
Firstly, people love to have a new car. To many it's just an expected thing that they have a new car. With the popularity of PCP deals people can have a car on their drive that they'd not in reality be able to buy. Who can blame them to a point. I have a family member who picked up an Alfa Giulia new at a price of £42k. The monthly payments on it across 4 years equate to about £17k so the reality is that's the amount that person can afford or is prepared to pay in that time. £42k car on the driveway for the monthly cost of one that you'd actually have to buy for half of that. It doesn't appeal to me personally but I can see why they do it.
The other mindset is that if you have a car outside of warranty you'll be landed with a huge repair bill so it's not worth it. That's not the reality of it but people think that a car with 30k on the clock must be about to throw up a massive bill so they'll just opt for another new car.
I can see how the market is tough for selling second hand, especially at prices that would likely require someone to borrow some cash. I mean if I were to buy a £10-12k car I'd take out a personal loan and find a bargain but then I'm prepared to run a 6+ year old car that has lost a significant sum.
It's a shame though, my cousin is 22 he's just got his first car and it's not ever going to be his as it's £200 a month! A shame really though as I loved having my own car, ok it was 7 years old but it was all mine. I guess for many they'll know no different.
Dog Star said:
Apologies - I didn't spot that but similar deals with 3 months down are out there - off that same company I got a C1 on 10k pa with 3 months down for 99 quid a month. My mate is running around in a 79/month Smart with 3 months down. My aforementioned E class 3 months down (I've had two SLKs and two E class coupes and paid between 330 and 390/month - hassle free motoring).
Top tip - always go for the lowest downpayment. The end cost is almost identical.
I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go
I fail to see what he has fallen foul of .. other than being protected from £5k + of loss Top tip - always go for the lowest downpayment. The end cost is almost identical.
I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go
The final value of xx is guaranteed by the finance co .. so even if it’s worth £10k less than the end value in a year he hasn’t lost any more money ... the finance company carries the risk ?
He can just keep the car full term and walk away surely ?
Only if he wants to buy it at end of term must he make a decision to pay xx for something only worth yy
Alex_225 said:
The other mindset is that if you have a car outside of warranty you'll be landed with a huge repair bill so it's not worth it. That's not the reality of it but people think that a car with 30k on the clock must be about to throw up a massive bill so they'll just opt for another new car.
Indeed.The truth about cars with 30-100K(+) miles is that they are not all about to expire or cost £1,000s every month. Few people know about cars and have been fed the line,
"you can't fix modern cars yourself", so they think that any work will be really difficult or expensive.
It will be interesting to see what is out there when I come to purchase. Used, mid -powered petrol turbo family estate cars are likely to be in short supply for a while.
ToothbrushMan said:
with PCP where do you stand if after say a year on a 3 year deal you lose your job?
Most finance companies carry insurance. Should you lose your job or become too ill to work two or three monthly payments are covered. Edited by ToothbrushMan on Monday 13th August 08:52
Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
I have done the PCP thing twice now and I absolutely hate it. Both times I have chopped the car in halfway through the contract as I was bored with the car and sick of paying £300+.
Now I own a very nice E91 330d LCI auto with 24k on the clock and a 1991 Land Rover Defender (off roader). Both I can chop in at any point without being stung by a finance company. The Landy isn't going to depreciate, however the BMW will do but the beautiful thing is, they are both mine and I can chop them in whenever I fancy something newer/faster/.
I have a friend who has a PCP on a very nice BMW, they are 8k the wrong way on their finance and simply can't get rid of the thing.
I will never do a PCP ever again!!! They're good if you want to keep the car for the duration of the finance, then rinse and repeat every 3-4 years. But that is not how I buy cars, so a PCP does not work for me at all.
Now I own a very nice E91 330d LCI auto with 24k on the clock and a 1991 Land Rover Defender (off roader). Both I can chop in at any point without being stung by a finance company. The Landy isn't going to depreciate, however the BMW will do but the beautiful thing is, they are both mine and I can chop them in whenever I fancy something newer/faster/.
I have a friend who has a PCP on a very nice BMW, they are 8k the wrong way on their finance and simply can't get rid of the thing.
I will never do a PCP ever again!!! They're good if you want to keep the car for the duration of the finance, then rinse and repeat every 3-4 years. But that is not how I buy cars, so a PCP does not work for me at all.
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