Used cars not selling?
Discussion
The used car market is an interesting one.
Back in 2015 I was looking at 05-06 BMW 330CI M Sport coupe or an 05-07 Jag XJ 4.2 V8 Sovereign to smoke around in for a while. Back then they were both around 5k for decent examples. Fast forward three years and the BMWs are still 4-5k, the Jags are over 7k.
Although it could be said both of those models are now relatively sought after, particularly the Jags
Back in 2015 I was looking at 05-06 BMW 330CI M Sport coupe or an 05-07 Jag XJ 4.2 V8 Sovereign to smoke around in for a while. Back then they were both around 5k for decent examples. Fast forward three years and the BMWs are still 4-5k, the Jags are over 7k.
Although it could be said both of those models are now relatively sought after, particularly the Jags
slipstream 1985 said:
Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.
In my experience they do. I sold my last few cars privately. Maybe I have been lucky though. It needs to be marketed well and sold at the right price. Plenty of private punters out there complaining there aren't enough cars out there.slipstream 1985 said:
Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.
And how much above the price of all the others with regular miles did you have it priced?I dont think that 99% of the market values a low miles cars at significantly more than the price of a well maintained regular miles car.
As i said in my first post, price is paramount. Pitch it above the minimum price for whatever reason and chances are the phone wont ring.
Theres a market for an M3 at a certain price and there will be a customer for it, push above that price point and your pool of buyers drops off exponentially.
I'd an observation made to me by a Mini specialist and i think it holds true here too - theres a lot of very optimistic pricing going on out in the market for "future classics" (and classics for that matter) where people are asking a price and either (a) not getting it or (b) accepting significantly less at some point down the line. Just because prices look high doesnt mean the cars in question will make that price.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 17th August 10:24
slipstream 1985 said:
Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.
A 2002 M3? I was looking for an E46, but gave up as most owners' definition of mint an expectations of price were somewhat hilarious.be it an M3, petrol barge or whatever- the vast majority of the buying public don't want a car that does
20 mpg,
500 a year in road fund
expensive tyres, running costs, servicing
sky high insurance
its a very small, specialist market that wants such a car. thus buyers will be rare themselves.
you can always spot a petrolhead on the motorway in such a car: they're the ones doing 55, desperately trying to get good MPG v everyone else in a generic diesel getting nearly 60 MPG at 80 odd miles an hour, blasting away regardless !
don't get me wrong, I've had dozens of petrol cars- but my word the fuel and running costs wear you down.
20 mpg,
500 a year in road fund
expensive tyres, running costs, servicing
sky high insurance
its a very small, specialist market that wants such a car. thus buyers will be rare themselves.
you can always spot a petrolhead on the motorway in such a car: they're the ones doing 55, desperately trying to get good MPG v everyone else in a generic diesel getting nearly 60 MPG at 80 odd miles an hour, blasting away regardless !
don't get me wrong, I've had dozens of petrol cars- but my word the fuel and running costs wear you down.
Killboy said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.
A 2002 M3? I was looking for an E46, but gave up as most owners' definition of mint an expectations of price were somewhat hilarious.When I was looking for my z4 there was so much rubbish out there both private and dealer
Ended up with a mint one bought through the z4-forum .. but it wasn’t easy finding a good one outside the “enthusiasts bubble”
I’d suggest that if the M3 IS mint then auto trader/eBay/WBAC etc is not the place to try and sell it
Owners forum/clubs etc is the way to go
M3 Cutters is probably the best place.
Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
gizlaroc said:
M3 Cutters is probably the best place.
Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
+1Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
Too many optimists out there and "just testing the water to see what interest there is" (at the stupidly high asking price i've pitched) types giving a false positive of what they're worth.
Deep Thought said:
gizlaroc said:
M3 Cutters is probably the best place.
Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
+1Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
Too many optimists out there and "just testing the water to see what interest there is" (at the stupidly high asking price i've pitched) types giving a false positive of what they're worth.
Killboy said:
Deep Thought said:
gizlaroc said:
M3 Cutters is probably the best place.
Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
+1Sold mine there in a matter of hours.
Mind you, E46 prices are too expensive at the moment imho.
I sold my 2002 8 years ago now, 89k miles, and it sold for £11,000.
Carbon black with Kiwi leather, nav, Harmon, smg, 18" wheels in anthracite and the 19s too.
Some of the prices I am seeing nearly a decade later are as high as that.
Too many optimists out there and "just testing the water to see what interest there is" (at the stupidly high asking price i've pitched) types giving a false positive of what they're worth.
MC Bodge said:
It will be interesting to see what is out there when I come to purchase. Used, mid -powered petrol turbo family estate cars are likely to be in short supply for a while.
They already are! I spent months trying to find my latest daily (2013 A4 Avant 2.0TFSI about 210bhp), granted I was a little bit picky with spec but there are not that many to go oneg on Autotrader Audi A4 Avant 2011-2015 search whole of UK
All in 644 cars available
Petrol models 47
of those ones that are 2.0 17
of those most are over 100k miles (mine had 48k) There are only 2 on there that are equivalent age / spec / mileage to mine and they are both up for over £3k more than I paid. The dealers are already recognising these cars are in short supply and high demand. One dealer on there keeps buying them and the price is higher each time
PCP or no PCP, my problem is there are very few new cars I actually want to own...
To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Edited by mrbarnett on Friday 17th August 16:22
mrbarnett said:
PCP or no PCP, my problem is there are very few new cars I actually want to own...
To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
I think of repair costs on my old Merc in terms of how many months lease/PCP payment they would be! That calculation was a bit messed up with the cheap Passat Alltrack deal, but they've all gone back now and I have still have my Merc.To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Like you, I'd replace it - but nothing 'grabs' me.
mrbarnett said:
PCP or no PCP, my problem is there are very few new cars I actually want to own...
To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Problem is, you are looking at a £75k car, that is also a Lexus, so will depreciate like a stone. To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Edited by mrbarnett on Friday 17th August 16:22
The residuals on those are around 30% after 48 months, so just wait and buy one at 4 years old for £25k.
PCP works for cars that hold their value and can be bought with big discounts to start with.
Go to the States and that car is expect to be worth 60% of its list after the same period.
They see German cars are unreliable and Japanese cars reliable, so their residuals are very different to ours.
We see German cars as desirable and Japanese cars as undesirable, which is why the Jap stuff has crap residuals.
Edit: I should add, the residual value is PCP/Trade in guesses, I would expect it to be more like 40%, so £35k retail in 4 years and 50k miles.
Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 17th August 18:16
gizlaroc said:
mrbarnett said:
PCP or no PCP, my problem is there are very few new cars I actually want to own...
To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Problem is, you are looking at a £75k car, that is also a Lexus, so will depreciate like a stone. To replace my current second-hand cars (Panda 100HP and Jaguar XK), I would quite fancy a VW up! GTi and a Lexus LC500. The VW would be easy enough to finance, but I think the Lexus might be a stretch...
EDIT: Lexus LC500
REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLE*††
Monthly payment £799
Customer Deposit £21,417
Total Deposit £21,417
Term 42
So the deposit alone is slightly more than I paid for the XK. Remind me how is this cheaper than buying second hand?
Edited by mrbarnett on Friday 17th August 16:22
The residuals on those are around 30% after 48 months, so just wait and buy one at 4 years old for £25k.
PCP works for cars that hold their value and can be bought with big discounts to start with.
Go to the States and that car is expect to be worth 60% of its list after the same period.
They see German cars are unreliable and Japanese cars reliable, so their residuals are very different to ours.
We see German cars as desirable and Japanese cars as undesirable, which is why the Jap stuff has crap residuals.
Edit: I should add, the residual value is PCP/Trade in guesses, I would expect it to be more like 40%, so £35k retail in 4 years and 50k miles.
Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 17th August 18:16
gizlaroc said:
If the market is not prepared to pay the extra that you are having to pay then "used car prices are too high" like I said, I stand by it.
I have loads of car traders shop with me, they are all saying the same, decent cars are too expensive. Like I said before, the customer always sees the cheap one on Autotrader and that becomes the benchmark price point.
It's not a case of sneering. A lot of people , including me, are averse to being in debt or of owing money to anyone ( I mean really averse, I hate it), after having no choice for many years. Back then it was HP and eventually you owned the car. Happy days. Debt and fixed financial commitments are a form of slavery, in my opinion, it removes some of your freedom and some people, although clearly not many nowadays, find it stressful.You lose the ability to make decisions about when to sell. or change your car. If you buy intelligently, you don't have to drive around in an old nail, or suffer unreliability and discomfort. I paid 6k for my Skoda Octavia for over 7 years, it's still probably worth 3k and if it was all I could afford to buy today, I'd be quite happy with it. That's my workhorse. Because I have no debt I also have a Lexus LS400 4 litre 290BHP V8, for which I paid less than 3K. It is quieter (just about silent), quicker and more comfortable than the new jaguar 3.0 D XF Portfolio I used to own. It is, effectively, a better car. It's insured on a classic car policy and because I do low mileage, fuel isn't a worry , although it'll do 30mpg on a run. These cars are utterly reliable and although mine is a 1999 car I'd drive to Spain in it tomorrow. It can be very satisfying buying a good car that you know was good value. Some of my neighbours seem to think I should be impressed because they drive around in new poverty spec Mercedes or BMWs or the ubiquitous poxy little ersatz 2 wheel drive SUVs that everyone seems to want All cars they will never own but some (not the deep thinkers) probably feel superior when they see me in my old Lexus. little do they know.
They always say that when a recession is looming furniture retailers feel it first, followed by footwear and then clothing.
I can tell you now the two customers of mine who sell furniture have both said the last 12 months have been awful, so much so both are getting out of the game.
I have a footwear agency selling shoes to retailers all over the country, they have all said 12 months ago it felt like it was slowing, the last 6 months have been awful, the worst many have known it for years.
This is small independents and the larger stores and chains.
John Lewis, the rock of UK retailing are not exactly having a great time at the moment either. When they start to wobble, with their client base, you have to stop and think what is really going on out there.
The clothing guys have all said this spring/summer has been terrible, they are all blaming it on snow in March and April, followed by football, Wimbledon and then just too hot for people to want to shop. I'm not so sure it is that?
There are certain industries who feel a recession coming, retailers mainly.
Then you have the service industries that really don't feel it until the day it happens, advertising, media etc. etc. Those are the industries that the sales guys need to use to get business and keep using until there really is no money left to do so.
Then we have the industries that cause the recession, the banks and lenders, the funny thing is, they are the most f
kin' shocked of all!
I would argue that main dealers are now not retailers, they are finance houses.
The finance is the product, the cars are now just a tool to sell the product, finance.
This is why when it all goes tits up, again, they will all be in shock, again.
It is OK for everyone to say "PCP etc. is fine, I can afford it." and I agree it is fine, but do you really know how safe your job is?
I would argue 90% of people working in the private sector on PAYE have no real job security, and 90% of them would think their job is safe as houses.
You can afford PCP as long as you have enough money to get out of the deal and pay off any negative equity, or have enough money in your savings to carry on with the payments.
I'm a great advocate of buying the car for the cheapest way possible, whether that be PCP, contract hire or cash. To do it any other way is just stupid.
But I know loads of people who do it that have not got the finance in place to cover it if circumstances change, and defaulting on a credit agreement like a PCP would have such a negative impact long term that it could cost you more than you could ever imagine.
Mate of mine was working for a building firm during the last recession, he was doing quite well, £75k+ a year, working for one of the biggest new build firms out there, job was safe as houses.
He had two cars on PCP, both pretty sensible, one was a silly cheap XC60 deal at £209 a month, the other was a Merc C Class at £250 a month. For someone bringing home over £4000 a month it was easily manageable, his mortgage was just over a grand, they have no kids.
However, suddenly work dried up, he had to go back to plastering here and there and earning enough to put some food on the table and cover the bills.
The problem was his cars were both only 2-3 months into the 48 month term.
He needed to find £10k to get out of them both, which he didn't have. He muddled through for a year, but all his savings were covering the mortgage.
He ended up defaulting, real problem was when it came to remortgage he couldn't get a decent deal as no one wanted to touch him,defaulting on two credit agreements pushed them to lenders who wanted 70% LTV, and wanted to charge double the rate everyone else was advertising. The house was being valued lower so their LTV was not there, so in the end they sold their house, he is still renting now, some 7 years later.
Ask him what he thinks of pcp/contract hire now?
If he hadn't of had those cars he would not be in the position he is in now.
He also had £20,000 worth of savings in his account, but within 10-12 months that was gobbled up.
One of my best friends goes into businesses to have a look at their structure, he is often called in by the companies before the receivers.
They look at the whole thing, from wages through to productivity returns etc. etc. and 'streamline' the company.
You would be amazed at who some of his clients are, he said the last 6 months is the busiest they have been since 2009-2011, and he said that nearly every one they have seen have the same problem.
They should have gone bust years ago.
He said it is the same thing time and time again, the businesses keep extending credit, which hides the fact the business are not actually working.
He said it is the same for firms with 10 employees or 1000 employees. Their turnover is up year on year, the bank extends credit and it continues ad infinitum. Problem is, most of them are now at the point where servicing the debt is becoming an issue, the bank are saying they won't extend the credit any more and it is starting to pinch.
It only then takes a slight downturn for it to bite.
And this, he said, is pretty much where the whole of the UK is at currently.
He did suggest that everyone goes online and looks at the accounts for the company they work for, he said many might not consider their job quite as safe as they did yesterday.
Food for thought!
I have loads of car traders shop with me, they are all saying the same, decent cars are too expensive. Like I said before, the customer always sees the cheap one on Autotrader and that becomes the benchmark price point.
It's not a case of sneering. A lot of people , including me, are averse to being in debt or of owing money to anyone ( I mean really averse, I hate it), after having no choice for many years. Back then it was HP and eventually you owned the car. Happy days. Debt and fixed financial commitments are a form of slavery, in my opinion, it removes some of your freedom and some people, although clearly not many nowadays, find it stressful.You lose the ability to make decisions about when to sell. or change your car. If you buy intelligently, you don't have to drive around in an old nail, or suffer unreliability and discomfort. I paid 6k for my Skoda Octavia for over 7 years, it's still probably worth 3k and if it was all I could afford to buy today, I'd be quite happy with it. That's my workhorse. Because I have no debt I also have a Lexus LS400 4 litre 290BHP V8, for which I paid less than 3K. It is quieter (just about silent), quicker and more comfortable than the new jaguar 3.0 D XF Portfolio I used to own. It is, effectively, a better car. It's insured on a classic car policy and because I do low mileage, fuel isn't a worry , although it'll do 30mpg on a run. These cars are utterly reliable and although mine is a 1999 car I'd drive to Spain in it tomorrow. It can be very satisfying buying a good car that you know was good value. Some of my neighbours seem to think I should be impressed because they drive around in new poverty spec Mercedes or BMWs or the ubiquitous poxy little ersatz 2 wheel drive SUVs that everyone seems to want All cars they will never own but some (not the deep thinkers) probably feel superior when they see me in my old Lexus. little do they know.
They always say that when a recession is looming furniture retailers feel it first, followed by footwear and then clothing.
I can tell you now the two customers of mine who sell furniture have both said the last 12 months have been awful, so much so both are getting out of the game.
I have a footwear agency selling shoes to retailers all over the country, they have all said 12 months ago it felt like it was slowing, the last 6 months have been awful, the worst many have known it for years.
This is small independents and the larger stores and chains.
John Lewis, the rock of UK retailing are not exactly having a great time at the moment either. When they start to wobble, with their client base, you have to stop and think what is really going on out there.
The clothing guys have all said this spring/summer has been terrible, they are all blaming it on snow in March and April, followed by football, Wimbledon and then just too hot for people to want to shop. I'm not so sure it is that?
There are certain industries who feel a recession coming, retailers mainly.
Then you have the service industries that really don't feel it until the day it happens, advertising, media etc. etc. Those are the industries that the sales guys need to use to get business and keep using until there really is no money left to do so.
Then we have the industries that cause the recession, the banks and lenders, the funny thing is, they are the most f
kin' shocked of all! I would argue that main dealers are now not retailers, they are finance houses.
The finance is the product, the cars are now just a tool to sell the product, finance.
This is why when it all goes tits up, again, they will all be in shock, again.
It is OK for everyone to say "PCP etc. is fine, I can afford it." and I agree it is fine, but do you really know how safe your job is?
I would argue 90% of people working in the private sector on PAYE have no real job security, and 90% of them would think their job is safe as houses.
You can afford PCP as long as you have enough money to get out of the deal and pay off any negative equity, or have enough money in your savings to carry on with the payments.
I'm a great advocate of buying the car for the cheapest way possible, whether that be PCP, contract hire or cash. To do it any other way is just stupid.
But I know loads of people who do it that have not got the finance in place to cover it if circumstances change, and defaulting on a credit agreement like a PCP would have such a negative impact long term that it could cost you more than you could ever imagine.
Mate of mine was working for a building firm during the last recession, he was doing quite well, £75k+ a year, working for one of the biggest new build firms out there, job was safe as houses.
He had two cars on PCP, both pretty sensible, one was a silly cheap XC60 deal at £209 a month, the other was a Merc C Class at £250 a month. For someone bringing home over £4000 a month it was easily manageable, his mortgage was just over a grand, they have no kids.
However, suddenly work dried up, he had to go back to plastering here and there and earning enough to put some food on the table and cover the bills.
The problem was his cars were both only 2-3 months into the 48 month term.
He needed to find £10k to get out of them both, which he didn't have. He muddled through for a year, but all his savings were covering the mortgage.
He ended up defaulting, real problem was when it came to remortgage he couldn't get a decent deal as no one wanted to touch him,defaulting on two credit agreements pushed them to lenders who wanted 70% LTV, and wanted to charge double the rate everyone else was advertising. The house was being valued lower so their LTV was not there, so in the end they sold their house, he is still renting now, some 7 years later.
Ask him what he thinks of pcp/contract hire now?
If he hadn't of had those cars he would not be in the position he is in now.
He also had £20,000 worth of savings in his account, but within 10-12 months that was gobbled up.
One of my best friends goes into businesses to have a look at their structure, he is often called in by the companies before the receivers.
They look at the whole thing, from wages through to productivity returns etc. etc. and 'streamline' the company.
You would be amazed at who some of his clients are, he said the last 6 months is the busiest they have been since 2009-2011, and he said that nearly every one they have seen have the same problem.
They should have gone bust years ago.
He said it is the same thing time and time again, the businesses keep extending credit, which hides the fact the business are not actually working.
He said it is the same for firms with 10 employees or 1000 employees. Their turnover is up year on year, the bank extends credit and it continues ad infinitum. Problem is, most of them are now at the point where servicing the debt is becoming an issue, the bank are saying they won't extend the credit any more and it is starting to pinch.
It only then takes a slight downturn for it to bite.
And this, he said, is pretty much where the whole of the UK is at currently.
He did suggest that everyone goes online and looks at the accounts for the company they work for, he said many might not consider their job quite as safe as they did yesterday.
Food for thought!
treeroy said:
Yeah, you watch TV and it's £249 per month not £25,000 since I think 80 (?) % of new cars are on finance.
Even if you buy it in cash it's all relative, I mean unless you intend on never selling the car and owning it until you are dead, then the actual cost of the car is not the buying price, it's the depreciation.
yeah it's not a great comparison to mortgages (and I'll freely admit I know nothing about mortgages) I just mean it's the same principle of buying something expensive, on finance.
It is a very very high number of people getting new vehicles who'll put it on finance. I mean lets face it very few people have the money to just drop on a car. Be it £5k or £50k so most people would use finance. I have on two new cars myself but I did hire purchase and owned them afterwards, I couldn't bring myself to sell so still have them. Even if you buy it in cash it's all relative, I mean unless you intend on never selling the car and owning it until you are dead, then the actual cost of the car is not the buying price, it's the depreciation.
yeah it's not a great comparison to mortgages (and I'll freely admit I know nothing about mortgages) I just mean it's the same principle of buying something expensive, on finance.
I think if I were to buy another brand new car it would have to be a real dream car so something I'd intend on keeping. When I look at what I've bought used in recent years, it's swayed me very much towards the used market. Again personal preference but when a car can lose £60k in under 20k miles, I'm good with that haha.
It does have some comparison to a mortgage in the sense that people rarely buy a house outright so it's not 'affordable' in the literal sense. More similar to HP I suppose where you aim to own it afterwards. That said there are many people out there paying interest only so not comparable to PCP.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Deep Thought said:
lord trumpton said:
With the 'cash' deal then I think it harks back to when money traceability wasn't as sharp as it is now, money laundering checks, payment limits etc weren't as common.
The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
+1The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
Wholly all of this.
We're in whats becoming a cashless society.
Even buskers these days can take electronic payment:
https://news.sky.com/story/london-buskers-first-in...
A point entirely lost on my local Gym (run by the council I think) who only accept cash or cheque for single use of the facilities. Nearest cash point was a a mile away. I was on foot. For the £7 a time they charge to use the gym, they can bloody well afford the little device to make the payment electronic. Some places really do live in the past.
He said I can get cash back over the road from the newsagents, I cant be bothered with that and its no good if I want a delivery and dont have cash.
Apparently too expensive to take card payments, hmm, spend 40 to 50 quid on a meal for the family and th card charge is too much ? I paid for my lunch at work yesterday which was £2 something on card.
I reckon Its mainly to evade tax personally, I bet their tax returns are a work of fiction, barely scraping by yet its mental every time I go in.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff