Used cars not selling?

[gizlaroc]

I really don't get businesses that don't take card, I don't think they realise just how much business they lose out on.

Also, get on a card payment that is low rate.

So many want a payment that has no monthly fee, but they all charge 3-5% per transaction.
I pay £14 a month to Transax but I am on 0.7% for credit cards and 0.5% for debit cards.

Within £400 of sales I am better off.
I know my local Indian is taking around £600,000 a year as it was advertised recently.

The Chinese next door is cash only, never as busy, and although we use it, if I don't have the cash on me, I simply don't bother, and I don't often have cash on me.

[Deep Thought]

J4CKO said:

I reckon Its mainly to evade tax personally, I bet their tax returns are a work of fiction, barely scraping by yet its mental every time I go in.

+1

I notice the couple of takeaways i use the guy seems to operate from a lot of notes in his pocket and wallet. Not often he goes near the till...

[Sa Calobra]

I could tell you about all the takings ending in bookmakers, casinos etc. It's rife.

Many don't have the money to pay their VAT bill.

You won't often find takeaways owners who are wealthy..

Maybe anecdotal from person experience growing up but they turn over lots and lose it as there's a culture of gambling

[Wooda80]

gizlaroc said:

I would argue that main dealers are now not retailers, they are finance houses.
The finance is the product, the cars are now just a tool to sell the product, finance.
This is why when it all goes tits up, again, they will all be in shock, again.

If we can explode the myth that everyone who finances a car must have less "cash in the bank" than everyone who spent some of their "cash in the bank" on an new car then:

In a world where everyone pays cash for cars, when there is a recession some people stop buying new(er) cars because it's a large discretionary purchase that they don't have to make and the production lines grind to a halt. This in itself causes a deeper recession in the car manufacturing sector --> job losses, reduced hours --> less consumer demand

In a world where everyone pays for cars monthly then in a recession people will still renew (because it's a regular household expense just like broadband, gas, electric, pay tv, gym membership etc.) perhaps into a car with a lower monthly payment if they wish to cut back. At least then the production lines keep turning.

[Wooda80]

gizlaroc said:

I would argue that main dealers are now not retailers, they are finance houses.
The finance is the product, the cars are now just a tool to sell the product, finance.
This is why when it all goes tits up, again, they will all be in shock, again.

If we can explode the myth that everyone who finances a car must have less "cash in the bank" than everyone who spent some of their "cash in the bank" on an new car then:

In a world where everyone pays cash for cars, when there is a recession some people stop buying new(er) cars because it's a large discretionary purchase that they don't have to make and the production lines grind to a halt. This in itself causes a deeper recession in the car manufacturing sector --> job losses, reduced hours --> less consumer demand

In a world where everyone pays for cars monthly then in a recession people will still renew (because it's a regular household expense just like broadband, gas, electric, pay tv, gym membership etc.) perhaps into a car with a lower monthly payment if they wish to cut back. At least then the production lines keep turning.

[Deep Thought]

Wooda80 said:

gizlaroc said:

I would argue that main dealers are now not retailers, they are finance houses.
The finance is the product, the cars are now just a tool to sell the product, finance.
This is why when it all goes tits up, again, they will all be in shock, again.

If we can explode the myth that everyone who finances a car must have less "cash in the bank" than everyone who spent some of their "cash in the bank" on an new car then:

In a world where everyone pays cash for cars, when there is a recession some people stop buying new(er) cars because it's a large discretionary purchase that they don't have to make and the production lines grind to a halt. This in itself causes a deeper recession in the car manufacturing sector --> job losses, reduced hours --> less consumer demand

In a world where everyone pays for cars monthly then in a recession people will still renew (because it's a regular household expense just like broadband, gas, electric, pay tv, gym membership etc.) perhaps into a car with a lower monthly payment if they wish to cut back. At least then the production lines keep turning.

+1

This notion that in the next recession we'll see everyone who pcpd cars walking along the road barefoot and in tears with no car whilst the guy down the road who drive a 10 year old Mondeo swans smugly past frankly is banal.

People adjust.

[crankedup]

^^^^
Yup, they will be driving ten year old mondeos.

[Deep Thought]

crankedup said:

^^^^
Yup, they will be driving ten year old mondeos.

... which will put the price of them up, which will further "outrage" those who were "outraged" by people having PCP deals.

[Wooda80]

Deep Thought said:

crankedup said:

^^^^
Yup, they will be driving ten year old mondeos.

... which will put the price of them up, which will further "outrage" those who were "outraged" by people having PCP deals.

I'd get a Ghia X Titanium to impress the neighbours

[dfen5]

I think one of the issues is that cheap lease deals have allowed car retail prices to extend beyond what anyone in their right mind would pay. £13k for a 1.0 Skoda? Or maybe £17.6k for a Fiesta that’s worth £6.5k retail after 3 years and 12,000 miles. (Losing nearly £330 per month..)

Even on Ford’s site, click ‘buy on line’ and it gives you a range of monthly payments..

There’s got to be a limit to the amount of people waiting to buy old leased cars?

[Yodafone]

Used prices do seem to be higher than this time last year on some cars, Suzuki Swift Sport and Lexus ISF are 2 which seems to have gone up can't say what it is for other cars but these 2 definitely have.

If I have noticed, other people probably have seen that prices were cheaper before as well, so are not willing to buy.

As I know I am in that situation as I have been looking a Lexus ISF for a year and I know they have gone up but they are not selling as most are sitting around for a long time and get past from dealer to dealer.

There are also some which seem like good value like the Merc A45 and BMW M135i hatch, but then you get the old 135i coupes which seem to have gone up.

And to be honest allot of people want new and flash with low cost these days and are a bit snobbery about old cars.

But you cannot blame them for that as older cars do have fault's.

[Deep Thought]

Wooda80 said:

Deep Thought said:

crankedup said:

^^^^
Yup, they will be driving ten year old mondeos.

... which will put the price of them up, which will further "outrage" those who were "outraged" by people having PCP deals.

I'd get a Ghia X Titanium to impress the neighbours

Bloody show off!

[Deep Thought]

dfen5 said:

I think one of the issues is that cheap lease deals have allowed car retail prices to extend beyond what anyone in their right mind would pay. £13k for a 1.0 Skoda? Or maybe £17.6k for a Fiesta that’s worth £6.5k retail after 3 years and 12,000 miles. (Losing nearly £330 per month..)

Even on Ford’s site, click ‘buy on line’ and it gives you a range of monthly payments..

There’s got to be a limit to the amount of people waiting to buy old leased cars?

Once you factor in inflation, cars arent any more expensive new than they were 20 years ago.

I think though used car prices are going to take a hit as so many people (a) want new and then (b) this will have a further impact when all those cars hit the market.

We took a cursory look at a Mercedes SLC300 recently, RRP £42K, discounted dealer price £36K. The dealer was pitching for us to take a PCP deal and so i let him run the figures - 3 years down the line they were "guaranteeing" just £12K on the car, so thats £8,000 a year on depreciation

Edited by Deep Thought on Sunday 19th August 11:34

[Deep Thought]

Yodafone said:

There are also some which seem like good value like the Merc A45 and BMW M135i hatch, but then you get the old 135i coupes which seem to have gone up.

And to be honest allot of people want new and flash with low cost these days and are a bit snobbery about old cars.

But you cannot blame them for that as older cars do have fault's.

I wouldnt like to be running an A45 outside warranty. Theres a lot to go wrong.

[Honestherbert]

Without getting into the lease/pcp debate I agree used cars are not selling unless very competitively priced or exceptional examples.
I have been looking at purchasing an e60 m5 for the last 6 months and just missed out on a decent one by dithering about it! My bad. However the majority seem to be just sitting there or passing hands between dealers. They are simply to highly priced but nobody seems to want to be the first to drop the price in order to sell, as previously mentioned both a lot of dealers and private sellers are stuck in the "appreciating classic" bubble imo.
It seems that anything sports orientated is pitched at top dollar irrelevant of condition and normal run of the mill cars are the other way round and a race to the bottom. I often keep an eye on various performance cars and the market seems stagnant imo.

[lornemalvo]

I think around 80% of cars are on finance, and PCP schemes relies on strong used values. It seems to me that the big companies control the market much more than was previously the case, and by various means, are artificially inflating the price of used cars. Demand for cars is strong overall, I think, because of low interest rates (kept artificially low for the past decade). If interest rates rise to a more realistic level, the level of personal debt will cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.

[Deep Thought]

lornemalvo said:

I think around 80% of cars are on finance, and PCP schemes relies on strong used values. It seems to me that the big companies control the market much more than was previously the case, and by various means, are artificially inflating the price of used cars. Demand for cars is strong overall, I think, because of low interest rates (kept artificially low for the past decade). If interest rates rise to a more realistic level, the level of personal debt will cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.

• And how do they control the used market? Prices are relatively low already for used cars, so they're not doing a very good job are they?
• A rise in interest rates wont cause a problem for anyone with a PCP, HP or personal loan for a car, as they are at a fixed rate.

[mike74]

I won (sight unseen) an 06 Citroen c1 on ebay a couple of weeks back for £1050... 2 owners, 57k miles, FCSH, perfect MOT history, literally looks and drives like new.

The cheapest equivalent one currently on PH is £2500.

Either I've struck very lucky with a superb bargain (for the first time in my life)... or there are some seriously overpriced cars sat around not selling out there.

Edited by mike74 on Sunday 19th August 11:20

[Deep Thought]

[redacted]

[Deep Thought]

mike74 said:

I won (sight unseen) an 06 Citroen c1 on ebay a couple of weeks back for £1050... 2 owners, 57k miles, FCSH, perfect MOT history, literally looks and drives like new.

The cheapest equivalent one currently on PH is £2500.

Either I've struck very lucky with a superb bargain (for the first time in my life)... or there are some seriously overpriced cars sat around not selling out there.

Edited by mike74 on Sunday 19th August 11:20

Sometimes you strike it lucky and get something as cheap as chips for no obvious reason.

Lovely when it happens though