Used cars not selling?

[anonymous-user]

Maldini35 said:

Sa Calobra said:

What depresses me - in the 18months-2yrs time there'll be scrappage schemes for cars upto seven years old. Just to get the car industry going again.

At the same time they'll be banging on about wastage, landfill, eco and waste taxes.

You can't make it up when it comes to politicians. They are simply a frightening breed.

The problem is, are they really a good deal or is this just a discount you would be able to get through carwow or similar anyway?

Earlier in the year most manufacturers came up with their own "scrappagge schemes" and as I have a car that qualifies I started to do some investigation. Basically the conclusion I came to was that it was essentially bait and switch to get you to consider a car you had not considered previously.

I think last time a lot of people who had never bought a new car before went for the Hyundai i10 which ended up costing around £5/6k once the £2k was taken off for the scrappage scheme.

I personally am very happy to run a shed as I can fix it myself and if anything goes wrong I will just scrap it and buy something else. Plus I choose to run a shed, it is not something I am forced to do due to lack of money.

I can totally understand why people lease rather than buy something that is secondhand but is not a shed. There is always the worry that it will be a lemon and cost a lot to fix, if it's a shed you just scrap it but if you are £5-£10k into a car you have to fix it. Plus for me there is always the worry of finding out it has been in an accident, we have all been there, that sickening realisation when you wash it for the first time that it has been in a smash. When you spot the overspray or the fact something is not quite aligned properly and start to look more deeply.

Plus if you need to finance a £10k car you can just as easily finance a lease car have zero worries and think about what you are going to do next in 3 years. I think if you are unlucky with a second hand purchase it can cost you just the same as leasing a car for three years.

[Jaroon]

OddCat said:

I have an absolutely mint 2012 XK 5.0 Portfolio. Thinking of changing because my 1,000 mile a month commute is not only expensive in petrol but it is also a shame to pile such miles on the car.

I was recently offered £20,600 px by a main dealer who hadn't seen it. The deal didn't happen because their car, which I had agreed to buy on the basis of an assurance that it too was lovely, was a dog (that was a wasted 280 mile round trip but that's another story).

WBAC is a comedy £18,700. Similar cars retail for £23,995. Local sports car dealer offering to sell for me and aim to return to me £21,000.

I cannot face trying to sell privately. Too many idiots out there.

Bottom line - it is a minefield this pricing malarkey.....

Oh dear. I own a lovely 2012 XFR, 38500 miles, full dealer history and am thinking of selling. Normally I'd part ex but I want to run a banger for a couple of years while I save for my attainable dream car for my 50th.

WBAC and Evans Halshaw are both just sub £15k. I'd like 6/7k more with similar up at 9/10k more but I just don't see it happening with a private sale. I may try a 3rd party to sell it but would still have to get a snotter to tax and insure with no guarantee mine will shift The only negative is I'm the 5th owner and I wonder if this is what drops the WBAC offer?

[mrbarnett]

OddCat said:

I have an absolutely mint 2012 XK 5.0 Portfolio. Thinking of changing because my 1,000 mile a month commute is not only expensive in petrol but it is also a shame to pile such miles on the car.

I was recently offered £20,600 px by a main dealer who hadn't seen it. The deal didn't happen because their car, which I had agreed to buy on the basis of an assurance that it too was lovely, was a dog (that was a wasted 280 mile round trip but that's another story).

WBAC is a comedy £18,700. Similar cars retail for £23,995. Local sports car dealer offering to sell for me and aim to return to me £21,000.

I cannot face trying to sell privately. Too many idiots out there.

Bottom line - it is a minefield this pricing malarkey.....

I recently bought an XK (slightly older than yours; a 2010 5.0 Portfolio Convertible) and can confirm that the prices vary wildly. Considering how easily these cars eat miles, it's those miles that seem to affect their price more than most cars.

Trade asking prices for 2009/2010 5.0 Convertibles started at £17,000 for a 100k example and rose to just under £30,000 for similarly aged mint Portfolio models with <35k miles. To my mind, that is a huge disparity and in the end I decided that a quality, well maintained car with higher miles was a better buy than an expensive garage queen so I paid £19,300 for a very tidy 77,500 mile example with full Jag history from a main dealer. I know for a fact that they had dropped the price of that car by at least £2.5k already and it hadn't moved.

There are plenty on AT that have been for sale all summer. This is one of the hottest, most convertible-friendly summers I can remember and beautiful, British soft tops are not selling. The only sense I can make is that those £25-£30k low mileage models are not worth the money...

[Sheepshanks]

longblackcoat said:

I was looking at a really high spec 5 year old E350CDI estate recently that was around 20% of its original price with FMBSH. High on miles at 120k-ish and good-but-not-great condition (a few stone chips, some minor kerbing, needs a service soon and some tyres - total to fix maybe £1000), but exactly the sort of thing I'd buy and run for three or four years, then sell for £5-6k.

I love depreciation.

If you were unlucky it could easily throw a hefty bill or two at you - turbo, gearbox etc - especially if it's not had the best of lives so far. With standard service and maintenance bills, and on-going depreciation, a new one on lease / PCP might not be hugely more expensive.

[Sa Calobra]

Sheepshanks said:

longblackcoat said:

I was looking at a really high spec 5 year old E350CDI estate recently that was around 20% of its original price with FMBSH. High on miles at 120k-ish and good-but-not-great condition (a few stone chips, some minor kerbing, needs a service soon and some tyres - total to fix maybe £1000), but exactly the sort of thing I'd buy and run for three or four years, then sell for £5-6k.

I love depreciation.

If you were unlucky it could easily throw a hefty bill or two at you - turbo, gearbox etc - especially if it's not had the best of lives so far. With standard service and maintenance bills, and on-going depreciation, a new one on lease / PCP might not be hugely more expensive.

I'd happily buy an older E class a few years back. Nowadays leggy and newer? Not a chance. Something change at Mercedes.

[MC Bodge]

Sa Calobra said:

I'd happily buy an older E class a few years back. Nowadays leggy and newer? Not a chance. Something change at Mercedes.

How long ago? The older ones rusted very badly.

I must say that I'm not convinced by "bangernomics" with a fairly expensive E350.

[tannhauser]

MC Bodge said:

I do wonder if typical buyers at dealers are becoming blind to total cost and only seeing a monthly payment.

Yes - because the majority of the UK car buying public are fking pig thick

[tannhauser]

CitySlicker said:

If lending tightens or cost of capital increases this will act as a catalyst and it’ll feel like ‘08-‘09 again.

Bring it on.

iloveteacakes said:

I think a recession is needed sadly.

I agree. But I'm looking forward to it - it is badly needed.

Edited by tannhauser on Wednesday 22 August 18:01

[buyer&seller]

Sa Calobra said:

What depresses me - in the 18months-2yrs time there'll be scrappage schemes for cars upto seven years old. Just to get the car industry going again.

At the same time they'll be banging on about wastage, landfill, eco and waste taxes.

You can't make it up when it comes to politicians. They are simply a frightening breed.

So you know that for a fact do you? I presume you mean cars over seven years old by the way.

And you talk about things being made up, oh the irony.

[DickP]

Hi

I don't understand.

More cars than ever are being leased or bought on PCP, right?

Second hand car prices are increasing because of demand vs supply, right?

Where are all the lease and PCP cars going when they reach end of term then?

[tannhauser]

DickP said:

Hi

I don't understand.

More cars than ever are being leased or bought on PCP, right?

Second hand car prices are increasing because of demand vs supply, right?

Where are all the cars going that are leased at the end of the lease term then?

Airfields I expect. I'm convinced of it. With a small fraction exported. The whole thing is a fking scam.

[V6Alfisti]

For me it seems to be a few elements, and most of which have been mentioned before.

I am looking for a boring petrol German exec car at the moment @£15-20k mark

1) Asset prices across the board (the usual investment suspects i.e housing/cars e.t.c) have increased across most asset groups in the last 10 years due to cheap cash/low incentive to invest with low interest rates, unfortunate but explains lots of the "how can that be worth?" "the pricing will not be sustained" type comments.
2) The point about WBAC is interesting, e.g. a Merc C Class C200 petrol Auto (2014/2015) gets valued at £12k on WBAC, they then no doubt push those through auction at I suspect £13-13.5k (plus buyers fee) then these either go to private buyers (direct via auction) or dealers who then put them up at £15.5/16k.
3) Pricing is all over the place, same spec/colour/year/mileage (give or take a few k) and the example above can be listed at 15.5k or 17.5k (or higher) and oddly buying direct from franchised Merc dealers are often the cheapest which tells me that Merc dealers are getting these via part ex (or have access to closed auctions) and selling at their usual margin, but because the market isn't competitive anymore...everyone else are just copying the price or trying to eek out some profit via the inflated auction route.
4) I agree on the point, where do all these just out of lease cars go? I was expecting the market to be flooded with 2015 beemer/mercs e.t.c
5) No-one seems to actually own 3-4 year old cars anymore, the number of private sales across multiple cars in this age band is pitifully little. No doubt linked to the popularity of leasing.

Edited by V6Alfisti on Wednesday 22 August 20:53

[MC Bodge]

tannhauser said:

Airfields I expect. I'm convinced of it. With a small fraction exported. The whole thing is a fking scam.

Although I am also in the "puzzled where all of the 3 year old cars are" group, I'm not sure how it could be considered a scam, even if manufacturers are hiding/storing/crushing the cars.

Used cars are not a human right. If somebody has them and others want them, the others need to pay for them.

As someone who likes a bargain, I do wonder where all of the cast-off lease cars go, though

[qska]

Sheepshanks said:

If you were unlucky it could easily throw a hefty bill or two at you - turbo, gearbox etc - especially if it's not had the best of lives so far. With standard service and maintenance bills, and on-going depreciation, a new one on lease / PCP might not be hugely more expensive.

I'm afraid it is.
E220D saloon you can lease cheaply.

Massively more expensive to lease an estate, and 350 CDI even more expensive.

[kuiper]

Deep Thought said:

Agreed.

I think theres a market for "specialist" cars, however why would anyone PCP a used Ford Focus Zetec for example, when they can get a new one for the same money? Specs dont vary much on the common or garden stuff.

But as i said, i agree with you - and i think the real way forward for the small(er) trader is specialising. Avoid the common or garden stuff thats just a race to the bottom on price.

This, 100 percent.

There's a used dealer not far from me that's basically a petrol head's dream. Nothing slightly dull, all ST's and RS3's, m3's, megane RS's etc etc. Strong prices but their stock turnover is phenomenal.

Personally if I needed a car right now, that's where I'd be going.

[tannhauser]

MC Bodge said:

tannhauser said:

Airfields I expect. I'm convinced of it. With a small fraction exported. The whole thing is a fking scam.

Although I am also in the "puzzled where all of the 3 year old cars are" group, I'm not sure how it could be considered a scam, even if manufacturers are hiding/storing/crushing the cars.

Used cars are not a human right. If somebody has them and others want them, the others need to pay for them.

As someone who likes a bargain, I do wonder where all of the cast-off lease cars go, though

Of course it's a fking scam - funny money and crazy low interest rates perpetuating an unsustainable, irrational bubble market. Ex-lease cars going back to manufacturers so they can control supply and manipulate the market - nothing other than a cartel. And stockpiling and potential destruction of perfectly decent cars is a complete disgrace.

I'm still looking for my ideal 4 Series, but there's fk all out there of any interest to me. They're probably all sat on airfields, but I refuse to be suckered into getting a new one under some facking PCP or lease arrangement!

[MC Bodge]

tannhauser said:

Of course it's a fking scam - funny money and crazy low interest rates perpetuating an unsustainable, irrational bubble market. Ex-lease cars going back to manufacturers so they can control supply and manipulate the market - nothing other than a cartel. And stockpiling and potential destruction of perfectly decent cars is a complete disgrace.

I'm still looking for my ideal 4 Series, but there's fk all out there of any interest to me. They're probably all sat on airfields, but I refuse to be suckered into getting a new one under some facking PCP or lease arrangement!

Haha.

I'm intrigued how somebody "buys" or rents out the RHD car in the UK, the PCP/lease holder pays only the "depreciation" for 3 years, then the car disappears -(or does it?), how does the owner/manufacturer make any money if it isn't sold on afterwardsto somebody like me or you?

They aren't much use to many other European countries as the steering wheel is on the wrong side.

[nw942]

MC Bodge said:

Haha.

I'm intrigued how somebody "buys" or rents out the RHD car in the UK, the PCP/lease holder pays only the "depreciation" for 3 years, then the car disappears -(or does it?), how does the owner/manufacturer make any money if it isn't sold on afterwardsto somebody like me or you?

They aren't much use to many other European countries as the steering wheel is on the wrong side.

Maybe they make enough on a 3 or 4 year PCP to cover the cost of the car?

BMW 420i Gran Coupe, £35k new, £4k contribution so £31k to finance and GFV £12k. 48 x £428pm is ~ £21k.

If it has only cost them say £18k to build and sell the car they are up.

M140i has fairly similar figures.

Lower model e.g. 118i are about £10.5k with 50% now, 50% after 48 months, so can't see what they are making on these.

[tannhauser]

MC Bodge said:

tannhauser said:

Of course it's a fking scam - funny money and crazy low interest rates perpetuating an unsustainable, irrational bubble market. Ex-lease cars going back to manufacturers so they can control supply and manipulate the market - nothing other than a cartel. And stockpiling and potential destruction of perfectly decent cars is a complete disgrace.

I'm still looking for my ideal 4 Series, but there's fk all out there of any interest to me. They're probably all sat on airfields, but I refuse to be suckered into getting a new one under some facking PCP or lease arrangement!

Haha.

I'm intrigued how somebody "buys" or rents out the RHD car in the UK, the PCP/lease holder pays only the "depreciation" for 3 years, then the car disappears -(or does it?), how does the owner/manufacturer make any money if it isn't sold on afterwardsto somebody like me or you?

They aren't much use to many other European countries as the steering wheel is on the wrong side.

The manufacturer makes money from the perpetual cycle of finance, ad infinitum.

Markets for RH drive cars? Well there's Cyprus and Malta which aren't a million miles away. Then there's South Africa - perfectly viable shipping a prestige car there? Either that, or perhaps having a RH drive in some parts of Europe is less problematic than having a LH drive car here (better/wider roads, lower population density etc). I know there's a market for old UK registered German cars going over to Eastern Europe - presumably because they see the value in them, unlike us plebs. And, I suppose, they have access to cheaper labour.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Never mind the prestige stuff.
My partner has outgrown her cute little FIAT 500. Fancied a small SUV.
Remembering the way the values of old Warsaw Pact cars fell off a cliff from the day they left the showroom I thought a Dacia Duster would be worth a look as an uber cheap no frills option. Not a chance. 5 year old Access models with around 60k miles are costing £6000.
I then remembered the Daihatsu Terios. With Daihatsu build quality and reliability well worth a punt as a shed. 55 plate (13 years old), low mileage admittedly but £5000?
One wonders how long it'll be before she notices some silly low deposit and 36x£150 Odeon something like a new Juke, Captur or Moka deal where when she trades her owned 500 and gets enough cashback for a new kitchen.
It's not wise long term but with things as they are I see the temptation.