Used cars not selling?

[Deep Thought]

tannhauser said:

And stockpiling and potential destruction of perfectly decent cars is a complete disgrace.

And have you ANY evidence at all to prove this complete disgrace of 3 year old cars being destroyed by manufacturers?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 23 August 06:53

[buyer&seller]

Deep Thought said:

tannhauser said:

And stockpiling and potential destruction of perfectly decent cars is a complete disgrace.

And have you ANY evidence at all to prove this complete disgrace of 3 year old cars being destroyed by manufacturers?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 23 August 06:53

He'll be along later, he's just popped along to school to pick up his GCSE results.

[swisstoni]

I can see good reason to send the surplus of these things for recycling. (That can’t be sold for a comfortably high price).
If the cost of production is covered with a bit of profit then actually that’s job done.

Some delicate souls might consider it immoral but we are often told how highly recyclable modern vehicles are.

[Sa Calobra]

tannhauser said:

DickP said:

Hi

I don't understand.

More cars than ever are being leased or bought on PCP, right?

Second hand car prices are increasing because of demand vs supply, right?

Where are all the cars going that are leased at the end of the lease term then?

Airfields I expect. I'm convinced of it. With a small fraction exported. The whole thing is a fking scam.

Plain and simple they just don't shift the numbers. This is then reflected in the used market.

If they were sat on airfields we'd know about it.


Using imagination....
Manufacturers crush and recycle. It's all a dastardly scheme..

[tannhauser]

Deep Thought said:

And have you ANY evidence at all to prove this complete disgrace of 3 year old cars being destroyed by manufacturers?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 23 August 06:53

I said potential destruction.

This illustrates the disgusting waste resulting from the last scrappage scheme. Skip to 13 mins and apparently you see swathes of 2015-18 cars:

https://youtu.be/Taf7o9sOFkc

Edited by tannhauser on Thursday 23 August 12:07

[nw942]

swisstoni said:

I can see good reason to send the surplus of these things for recycling. (That can’t be sold for a comfortably high price).
If the cost of production is covered with a bit of profit then actually that’s job done.

Some delicate souls might consider it immoral but we are often told how highly recyclable modern vehicles are.

I'd say it probably makes sense to start taking some diesels out of the system as fewer people will presumably want them.

If you can reuse/refurbish the parts and fit them to a new car then that is good.

[Deep Thought]

Before we get all conspiracy theory, heres some actual facts.

As of March 2018, there were 37.9 million cars in the UK. Source :- RAC

https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...

Average life expectancy of a car is now 14.2 years. Source :- SMMT

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/sustainabil...

New car sales 2017 (last full year statistics) - 2.54 million. Source : SMMT

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2018/01/uk-new-car-market-d...

So we're introducing 2.54 million new cars a year, however at the other end we're removing 2.52 million old cars by being scrapped by the time they're 15 years old. (37.9 / 15)

So roughly speaking the new cars going in to the pool are replacing the old cars at end of life at the other end.

The pool of cars is growing gradually, however the real knock on effect will be at the other end as cars become worthless quicker and get scrapped. The impact wont be @ 3 years old.

So no big conspiracy, no cars being broken up at 3 years old, no 3 year old cars being "recycled" in to new ones, just typical life cycle.

[Deep Thought]

tannhauser said:

Deep Thought said:

And have you ANY evidence at all to prove this complete disgrace of 3 year old cars being destroyed by manufacturers?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 23 August 06:53

I said potential destruction.

This illustrates the disgusting waste resulting from the last scrappage scheme. Skip to 13 mins and apparently you see swathes of 2015-18 cars:

https://youtu.be/Taf7o9sOFkc

Edited by tannhauser on Thursday 23 August 12:07

You're mixing issues up now to draw your particular conclusion. Thats a video of scrappage scheme cars (a disgusting waste, agreed) and late model cars in storage prior to resale (ie, not being scrapped). Apart from anything of those late model cars theres a mix of manufacturers cars interspersed so not a dumping ground for a manufacturer, more than likely a holding area for a finance company whilst it awaits asset disposal.

There is not a pups chance that manufacturers are scrapping 3 year old cars.

[tannhauser]

Deep Thought said:

tannhauser said:

Deep Thought said:

And have you ANY evidence at all to prove this complete disgrace of 3 year old cars being destroyed by manufacturers?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 23 August 06:53

I said potential destruction.

This illustrates the disgusting waste resulting from the last scrappage scheme. Skip to 13 mins and apparently you see swathes of 2015-18 cars:

https://youtu.be/Taf7o9sOFkc

Edited by tannhauser on Thursday 23 August 12:07

You're mixing issues up now to draw your particular conclusion. Thats a video of scrappage scheme cars (a disgusting waste, agreed) and late model cars in storage prior to resale (ie, not being scrapped). Apart from anything of those late model cars theres a mix of manufacturers cars interspersed so not a dumping ground for a manufacturer, more than likely a holding area for a finance company whilst it awaits asset disposal.

There is not a pups chance that manufacturers are scrapping 3 year old cars.

Glad we agree on scrappage - although I'd love to see scrappage of diesels in some way, provided it was done sensibly and they could be parted out (minus dirty engines?) instead of crushed.

The commentator said 2015-18 models - so assuming he is accurate, yes new ones, but also some nearly new which are potentially being held from the forecourts? I'm not saying that's the case here, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this is happening somewhere.

Why would they not scrap 3yo cars? If they've made enough money of the finance, and they can perpetuate this funny-money cycle, then from a purely financial POV why not?

[Deep Thought]

tannhauser said:

Glad we agree on scrappage - although I'd love to see scrappage of diesels in some way, provided it was done sensibly and they could be parted out (minus dirty engines?) instead of crushed.

Agreed

tannhauser said:

The commentator said 2015-18 models - so assuming he is accurate, yes new ones, but also some nearly new which are potentially being held from the forecourts? I'm not saying that's the case here, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this is happening somewhere.

They're being held until such times as they are graded and distributed around the country to either closed auction groups, sold to dealers directly, or sold at general auction

tannhauser said:

Why would they not scrap 3yo cars? If they've made enough money of the finance, and they can perpetuate this funny-money cycle, then from a purely financial POV why not?

They dont make that sort of money on the finance. Take a new Merc at say £50K. They're probably underwriting its GFV at £20K. Interest charges probably amount to £3,000-£5,000 and out of that they've still got their own costs and interest charges to cover (as they'll be borrowing the money).

Look at the stats i posted there a couple of posts back - roughly speaking we're adding as many new cars to the pool as are being disposed of at end of life.

It "seems" a big number being sold new, but theres nigh on 40 million cars in the UK.

[CSLM3CSL]

Deep Thought said:

Before we get all conspiracy theory, heres some actual facts.

As of March 2018, there were 37.9 million cars in the UK. Source :- RAC

https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...

Average life expectancy of a car is now 14.2 years. Source :- SMMT

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/sustainabil...

New car sales 2017 (last full year statistics) - 2.54 million. Source : SMMT

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2018/01/uk-new-car-market-d...

So we're introducing 2.54 million new cars a year, however at the other end we're removing 2.52 million old cars by being scrapped by the time they're 15 years old. (37.9 / 15)

So roughly speaking the new cars going in to the pool are replacing the old cars at end of life at the other end.

The pool of cars is growing gradually, however the real knock on effect will be at the other end as cars become worthless quicker and get scrapped. The impact wont be @ 3 years old.

So no big conspiracy, no cars being broken up at 3 years old, no 3 year old cars being "recycled" in to new ones, just typical life cycle.

These numbers in theory make sense but on a day to day basis I see many new cars and hardly any 3-5 year old ones. In my street for example there are over 30 1-3 year old cars, 1 3-5 year old cars and 3 car over 5 years old (two of them are mine). I appreciate this won't be representative of other areas but around my way the poorer areas have older cars 5 years old plus. are there any figures to show how many 2013, 2014 and 2015 cars are on the roads?

[longblackcoat]

MC Bodge said:

How long ago? The older ones rusted very badly.

I must say that I'm not convinced by "bangernomics" with a fairly expensive E350.

Why on earth would you think of this as bangernomics? Cars are way better built than even a few decades ago, and they don’t dissolve at 100k miles. Older cars are not bangers unless you let them get that way (or they were a Hyundai Getz to start with). There’s a huge network of marque specialists out there who work for less than half the cost of a main dealer, so maintenance doesn’t have to kill you.

Oh, and Mercedes (personal experience) simply don’t rust in the 2006- era. Previous ones were terrible, admittedly.

Everyone has a choice, their own view of risk and a price point. For what it cost me to run my car (excluding fuel and insurance, about £100/month) I’ll accept full liability. If something breaks, it breaks; I’ll get it fixed.

I’m happy to have no warranty, and to have a list of things that will need attention in the next 20k miles (in my case front discs, probably shocks and a couple of supermarket dents to get pulled out, change transmission fluid) but I recognise that others are far more risk averse.

Obviously my way requires more effort - finding a good car, accepting that it will need more maintenance as things start to wear out, finding secondhand parts (why pay £250 for a broken rear light cluster?), and then disposing of the car once you no longer want it. But all that costs money, and I’m simply not prepared to give more of mine to the car trade than absolutely necessary.

[gizlaroc]

MC Bodge said:

Sa Calobra said:

I'd happily buy an older E class a few years back. Nowadays leggy and newer? Not a chance. Something change at Mercedes.

How long ago? The older ones rusted very badly.

I must say that I'm not convinced by "bangernomics" with a fairly expensive E350.

The W212 E Class is pretty bullet proof.

One of the techs from Norwich Mercedes says they are back to W124 levels of build in regard to gearbox, suspension and engine.

They said with the W210 and W211 they usually had 2-3 in every day once they got to 5 years old, mainly to sort out clunks etc. but also issues with EGRs, swirl flaps, gearboxs flaring etc. etc.
The W212 he said they see 1-2 a week, which is back to what was seen with 5-10 year old W124s.

I ran mine to 115k miles and 6 years old and it genuinely felt like new still.

I would happily buy one again with 120k miles on it and 8 years old. In fact I probably will.

[Noesph]

Drive Blind said:

from what I see nobody wants a 12 year old car.

Nobody in my street has a 12 year old car and I think I'd struggle to find a vehicle of that age in the works car park.

You haven't been to South London then, I have the newest car out of my neighbors, at 9 and a half years old. Fella next door is still driving a cortina MK2....

Same at work, plenty of early 00s, 90s, two 80s and one 1950s car in the car park. Same as the the vectra b thread I've seen on here. I see them all the time around here (and there is one in the works car park).

[slipstream 1985]

In Aberdeen my X plate audi tt is almost always the oldest car by a country mile in any carpark. Everywhere cars are 5 years old at the oldest.

[Edible Roadkill]

Just having a flick through the local weekly paper and there's a car dealers advertising used cars.

I am shocked at some of the prices to be honest.

Most the cars offered are low model range cars examples of being 2009 Vauxhall Astra tdi, 2009 VW golf se, 2010 Peugeot 207 Active etc

Asking upward of 4500 for those 3, I'd covered the prices up, read the spec and guessed the price And was miles out on them all.

There's no way I'd pay 4.5-5k for a low spec run of the mill 9yr old car.

[MC Bodge]

Edible Roadkill said:

Just having a flick through the local weekly paper and there's a car dealers advertising used cars.

I am shocked at some of the prices to be honest.

Most the cars offered are low model range cars examples of being 2009 Vauxhall Astra tdi, 2009 VW golf se, 2010 Peugeot 207 Active etc

Asking upward of 4500 for those 3, I'd covered the prices up, read the spec and guessed the price And was miles out on them all.

There's no way I'd pay 4.5-5k for a low spec run of the mill 9yr old car.

I agree that prices seem higher than they have in the past 10-15 years, but maybe they were "too low" then?

What are the monthly payments shown as?

[Edible Roadkill]

MC Bodge said:

I agree that prices seem higher than they have in the past 10-15 years, but maybe they were "too low" then?

What are the monthly payments shown as?

Yeah it's a tough one. What value can you put on a very basic 'no thrills' not in any way shape or form desirable, car that's a few months away from being a decade old.......While new cars can be had so cheap on the never never the answer has to be not a lot. Couple grand maybe!?


This garage is one of the few that doesn't push them out as deal of the century low monthly cost with feck all down for the rest of your days 14.9% Apr, they get some respect back for that.

[mrbarnett]

Edible Roadkill said:

MC Bodge said:

I agree that prices seem higher than they have in the past 10-15 years, but maybe they were "too low" then?

What are the monthly payments shown as?

Yeah it's a tough one. What value can you put on a very basic 'no thrills' not in any way shape or form desirable, car that's a few months away from being a decade old.......While new cars can be had so cheap on the never never the answer has to be not a lot. Couple grand maybe!?


This garage is one of the few that doesn't push them out as deal of the century low monthly cost with feck all down for the rest of your days 14.9% Apr, they get some respect back for that.

Couldn't believe this, but it's true that the diseasils are going for around £4k at that age with 50-60k on the clock. Thing is, if you want to just potter about using not too much fuel (diesel 101), there are small petrol versions for half that. Here's a 2010 coupe/convertible with low mileage for less than £2k. Surely the better buy?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[gizlaroc]

Strange isn't it.

Someone will probably buy the diesel for £4000 thinking they are saving money.

For someone doing 10k miles a year the diesel is saving them £20 a month.

They will break even in just over 8 years, in will take them 17 years to be financially better buying the diesel.