Used cars not selling?
Discussion
Thank you all for your replies and for your thoughts on the matter. However, I think there are many contributions to the current state of affairs let alone one in particular that is starting to show its head more and more.
One of the big changes I noticed was a serious lack of what I would call 'quality cars'. WBAC single-handedly changed the game by offering low-ball and insulting offers to folks for cars that would of sold easily for more if they were advertised privately on Autotrader for example.
As time has passed combined with massive advertising on all platforms, everyone heard about WBAC and more and more people became there victim. Hats off to British Car Auctions for doing this, they obviously seen that good lots were drying up as most dealers after the recession opened up there own 'part exchange centres' to sell the trade-ins and were quick to capitalize on the market of folks that needed a good quality, affordable run-around. These are cars that would normally be going through the auction.
Now, when WBAC started, people laughed at there offers. People I know would say 'what a bunch of jokers'. However, fast forward a few years and WBAC now has there price offers at a point where people would consider them. More so, they have convinced a lot of people in general (including many replying to this post) that there offer price is the bench mark to what the particular car in question is worth to the trade. Wow. They actually managed to convince seasoned sellers and buyers etc that whay there price of offer is/was is what the car is worth. Many do not realize that BCA owns WBAC.
The offer WBAC make is literally made on the almost guaranteed and educated view that the car will sell for more at the auction thus providing BCA/WBAC with there profits. So, next time you see an offer of £2,500 for a low mileage VW Polo for example, that means they expect to sell that car at auction for £2,800-£3,000 (reality is they fetch A LOT more) and bear in mind the buyer has to be the auction fees of circa £250. Add on a used car check, a wheel refurb, a paint repair or two, a service perhaps, an MOT, a valet, some transport costs, a warranty (if you can) and oh, yes some profit - the party is over.
With every man and his dog now turning to BCA to buy there stock (where a number of them would steer clear from auctions all together) prices are being pushed up for cars that would normally be valued less and thus the cars advertised are over-priced in general. Then, when the seller is going to sell and sees that WBAC is coming up the valuation of £2,500 for the fictitious VW Polo I mentioned (which is now advertised for £4,500 just to make sense of all the expenditure so far) then you see all you are doing is filling the pockets of the auction house. All of a sudden you start to question the whole idea of selling cars for your livlihood.
It's all easy for people to say you are to dear in the first place but I don't take to selling sub-standard cars. I spend the money on them to ensure the car is right. Not everyone is happy to buy the car they hope to buy with high miles, scuffed bumpers, kerbed wheels, various noises, dirty mats, stained interior, needing a service and only a few months left on the MOT, just because it was cheap. Just look at your own ideal preferences for buying a second hand car (that is if you do buy second hand). Everyone is different that I know, however not everyone wants to buy the cheapest shed going because it was the cheapest shed going.
The MX5 example I gave was a classic. There are cheap cars that are not perfect, and there are those that have all the extras and money spent to make them look and drive the part which are going for more. Turns out, the buyers that like the cars that were of the upper end of the market are now very thin on the ground which leads me to my next conclusion... recession and negative outlook.
All the negative news of late will surely not have helped. All these big name store closures can not be over-looked. Brexit fears (I was once skeptical about all the fear driven politics and decided to ignore them, not so much now when you add everything else into the mix). A lot of re-structuring going on in banks with branches closing, more AI on the scene, more money going to Amazon than ever before, more individual and small time business owners on the high street just not making the cut etc etc and all of a sudden things just look dismal. Then the reality of it all hits your door and you see a lack of calls one month to no calls the next. Reduce the prices, still no calls. Hold out because its summer, yes that must be it... keep telling yourself this if you dare.
PCP will no doubt be a factor in why things are quiet for used cars. That bubble will burst I believe unless you get PCP on used cars. Just wait till the flood gates open with all the Audi A1's, A3's and A4's hit the auction along with a million Fiat 500's. The manufacturers/dealers will then realise that the strength of the used car market (which is being used to prop up the low cost PCP deals) is not anywhere as strong as they thought. That A1 going for £199 per month with £199 deposit will soon be £299 per month with £2999 deposit. Plus, at the end of the PCP deal you have nothing to show for all your money paid. A new car is nice with no worries, I do get it, but for those of us wanting to own our assets and use them without being hit for bills at the end of the agreement and having to face the joyous baloon payment, then PCP is not everything. I am alone in my thoughts with this one I believe.
The other factor is the UK Government. Ban the diesel cars, ban the petrol cars, ban all the cars (that will come one day I kid you not). I remember the £500 road tax. Then the free road tax. Now, its the crazy tax system with initial big tax payments on new cars, with low tax after 5 years or whatever it is. Diesel cars are good, petrol is bad. No, wait, Petrol cars are ok but Electric cars are great, no Hybrids are good and Electric is best, no wait, Hybrids are to be banned, all Electric is good, public bus is better, walking is great, trapped in your shared housing scheme with no chance of making it in life is better. That's it.
No one knows where we are going apart from down the tubes. The goal posts change way to fast now and when it comes to trying to sell some decent used cars around the £5k mark so you can live just about seem to be on the cliff edge. It will not be long before all showrooms will just about rid of staff because who needs a salesman. Mechanics of old are finished by 2030 (forget 2040 - folks will want electric much earlier as to avoid complete loss of value in there car). Its looking pretty bleak in my view.
One of the big changes I noticed was a serious lack of what I would call 'quality cars'. WBAC single-handedly changed the game by offering low-ball and insulting offers to folks for cars that would of sold easily for more if they were advertised privately on Autotrader for example.
As time has passed combined with massive advertising on all platforms, everyone heard about WBAC and more and more people became there victim. Hats off to British Car Auctions for doing this, they obviously seen that good lots were drying up as most dealers after the recession opened up there own 'part exchange centres' to sell the trade-ins and were quick to capitalize on the market of folks that needed a good quality, affordable run-around. These are cars that would normally be going through the auction.
Now, when WBAC started, people laughed at there offers. People I know would say 'what a bunch of jokers'. However, fast forward a few years and WBAC now has there price offers at a point where people would consider them. More so, they have convinced a lot of people in general (including many replying to this post) that there offer price is the bench mark to what the particular car in question is worth to the trade. Wow. They actually managed to convince seasoned sellers and buyers etc that whay there price of offer is/was is what the car is worth. Many do not realize that BCA owns WBAC.
The offer WBAC make is literally made on the almost guaranteed and educated view that the car will sell for more at the auction thus providing BCA/WBAC with there profits. So, next time you see an offer of £2,500 for a low mileage VW Polo for example, that means they expect to sell that car at auction for £2,800-£3,000 (reality is they fetch A LOT more) and bear in mind the buyer has to be the auction fees of circa £250. Add on a used car check, a wheel refurb, a paint repair or two, a service perhaps, an MOT, a valet, some transport costs, a warranty (if you can) and oh, yes some profit - the party is over.
With every man and his dog now turning to BCA to buy there stock (where a number of them would steer clear from auctions all together) prices are being pushed up for cars that would normally be valued less and thus the cars advertised are over-priced in general. Then, when the seller is going to sell and sees that WBAC is coming up the valuation of £2,500 for the fictitious VW Polo I mentioned (which is now advertised for £4,500 just to make sense of all the expenditure so far) then you see all you are doing is filling the pockets of the auction house. All of a sudden you start to question the whole idea of selling cars for your livlihood.
It's all easy for people to say you are to dear in the first place but I don't take to selling sub-standard cars. I spend the money on them to ensure the car is right. Not everyone is happy to buy the car they hope to buy with high miles, scuffed bumpers, kerbed wheels, various noises, dirty mats, stained interior, needing a service and only a few months left on the MOT, just because it was cheap. Just look at your own ideal preferences for buying a second hand car (that is if you do buy second hand). Everyone is different that I know, however not everyone wants to buy the cheapest shed going because it was the cheapest shed going.
The MX5 example I gave was a classic. There are cheap cars that are not perfect, and there are those that have all the extras and money spent to make them look and drive the part which are going for more. Turns out, the buyers that like the cars that were of the upper end of the market are now very thin on the ground which leads me to my next conclusion... recession and negative outlook.
All the negative news of late will surely not have helped. All these big name store closures can not be over-looked. Brexit fears (I was once skeptical about all the fear driven politics and decided to ignore them, not so much now when you add everything else into the mix). A lot of re-structuring going on in banks with branches closing, more AI on the scene, more money going to Amazon than ever before, more individual and small time business owners on the high street just not making the cut etc etc and all of a sudden things just look dismal. Then the reality of it all hits your door and you see a lack of calls one month to no calls the next. Reduce the prices, still no calls. Hold out because its summer, yes that must be it... keep telling yourself this if you dare.
PCP will no doubt be a factor in why things are quiet for used cars. That bubble will burst I believe unless you get PCP on used cars. Just wait till the flood gates open with all the Audi A1's, A3's and A4's hit the auction along with a million Fiat 500's. The manufacturers/dealers will then realise that the strength of the used car market (which is being used to prop up the low cost PCP deals) is not anywhere as strong as they thought. That A1 going for £199 per month with £199 deposit will soon be £299 per month with £2999 deposit. Plus, at the end of the PCP deal you have nothing to show for all your money paid. A new car is nice with no worries, I do get it, but for those of us wanting to own our assets and use them without being hit for bills at the end of the agreement and having to face the joyous baloon payment, then PCP is not everything. I am alone in my thoughts with this one I believe.
The other factor is the UK Government. Ban the diesel cars, ban the petrol cars, ban all the cars (that will come one day I kid you not). I remember the £500 road tax. Then the free road tax. Now, its the crazy tax system with initial big tax payments on new cars, with low tax after 5 years or whatever it is. Diesel cars are good, petrol is bad. No, wait, Petrol cars are ok but Electric cars are great, no Hybrids are good and Electric is best, no wait, Hybrids are to be banned, all Electric is good, public bus is better, walking is great, trapped in your shared housing scheme with no chance of making it in life is better. That's it.
No one knows where we are going apart from down the tubes. The goal posts change way to fast now and when it comes to trying to sell some decent used cars around the £5k mark so you can live just about seem to be on the cliff edge. It will not be long before all showrooms will just about rid of staff because who needs a salesman. Mechanics of old are finished by 2030 (forget 2040 - folks will want electric much earlier as to avoid complete loss of value in there car). Its looking pretty bleak in my view.
I think thats a great summary of the marketplace
Certainly when i got out margins were being squeezed to unworkable levels because good used stock was hard to find but yet people expected your car to be the cheapest on the market.
I saw examples where i had a particular car, maybe FSH, years MOT, valeted, serviced and in mint condition and there'd be someone stick on a rough one with no history and a few months MOT for £100 less and theirs would sell first!
Crazy times...
Certainly when i got out margins were being squeezed to unworkable levels because good used stock was hard to find but yet people expected your car to be the cheapest on the market.
I saw examples where i had a particular car, maybe FSH, years MOT, valeted, serviced and in mint condition and there'd be someone stick on a rough one with no history and a few months MOT for £100 less and theirs would sell first!
Crazy times...
Depends what is meant by "small time used car seller".
Proper licenced premises?
Proper guarantees?
Proper servicing other than a lick of tyre paint?
Known to Mr Taxman?
Our towns & cities kerbs are littered by assorted cars parked with for sale signs & presumably part of somebody's illicit business or hobby. Some residents get fed up with the spaces taken & they get regularly keyed sadly rarely putting off the seller(s).
Maybe it's this tacky end of the trade that's taking business away from the professionals.
Proper licenced premises?
Proper guarantees?
Proper servicing other than a lick of tyre paint?
Known to Mr Taxman?
Our towns & cities kerbs are littered by assorted cars parked with for sale signs & presumably part of somebody's illicit business or hobby. Some residents get fed up with the spaces taken & they get regularly keyed sadly rarely putting off the seller(s).
Maybe it's this tacky end of the trade that's taking business away from the professionals.
iloveteacakes said:
Thank you all for your replies and for your thoughts on the matter. However, I think there are many contributions to the current state of affairs let alone one in particular that is starting to show its head more and more.
One of the big changes I noticed was a serious lack of what I would call 'quality cars'. WBAC single-handedly changed the game by offering low-ball and insulting offers to folks for cars that would of sold easily for more if they were advertised privately on Autotrader for example.
As time has passed combined with massive advertising on all platforms, everyone heard about WBAC and more and more people became there victim. Hats off to British Car Auctions for doing this, they obviously seen that good lots were drying up as most dealers after the recession opened up there own 'part exchange centres' to sell the trade-ins and were quick to capitalize on the market of folks that needed a good quality, affordable run-around. These are cars that would normally be going through the auction.
Now, when WBAC started, people laughed at there offers. People I know would say 'what a bunch of jokers'. However, fast forward a few years and WBAC now has there price offers at a point where people would consider them. More so, they have convinced a lot of people in general (including many replying to this post) that there offer price is the bench mark to what the particular car in question is worth to the trade. Wow. They actually managed to convince seasoned sellers and buyers etc that whay there price of offer is/was is what the car is worth. Many do not realize that BCA owns WBAC.
The offer WBAC make is literally made on the almost guaranteed and educated view that the car will sell for more at the auction thus providing BCA/WBAC with there profits. So, next time you see an offer of £2,500 for a low mileage VW Polo for example, that means they expect to sell that car at auction for £2,800-£3,000 (reality is they fetch A LOT more) and bear in mind the buyer has to be the auction fees of circa £250. Add on a used car check, a wheel refurb, a paint repair or two, a service perhaps, an MOT, a valet, some transport costs, a warranty (if you can) and oh, yes some profit - the party is over.
With every man and his dog now turning to BCA to buy there stock (where a number of them would steer clear from auctions all together) prices are being pushed up for cars that would normally be valued less and thus the cars advertised are over-priced in general. Then, when the seller is going to sell and sees that WBAC is coming up the valuation of £2,500 for the fictitious VW Polo I mentioned (which is now advertised for £4,500 just to make sense of all the expenditure so far) then you see all you are doing is filling the pockets of the auction house. All of a sudden you start to question the whole idea of selling cars for your livlihood.
It's all easy for people to say you are to dear in the first place but I don't take to selling sub-standard cars. I spend the money on them to ensure the car is right. Not everyone is happy to buy the car they hope to buy with high miles, scuffed bumpers, kerbed wheels, various noises, dirty mats, stained interior, needing a service and only a few months left on the MOT, just because it was cheap. Just look at your own ideal preferences for buying a second hand car (that is if you do buy second hand). Everyone is different that I know, however not everyone wants to buy the cheapest shed going because it was the cheapest shed going.
The MX5 example I gave was a classic. There are cheap cars that are not perfect, and there are those that have all the extras and money spent to make them look and drive the part which are going for more. Turns out, the buyers that like the cars that were of the upper end of the market are now very thin on the ground which leads me to my next conclusion... recession and negative outlook.
All the negative news of late will surely not have helped. All these big name store closures can not be over-looked. Brexit fears (I was once skeptical about all the fear driven politics and decided to ignore them, not so much now when you add everything else into the mix). A lot of re-structuring going on in banks with branches closing, more AI on the scene, more money going to Amazon than ever before, more individual and small time business owners on the high street just not making the cut etc etc and all of a sudden things just look dismal. Then the reality of it all hits your door and you see a lack of calls one month to no calls the next. Reduce the prices, still no calls. Hold out because its summer, yes that must be it... keep telling yourself this if you dare.
PCP will no doubt be a factor in why things are quiet for used cars. That bubble will burst I believe unless you get PCP on used cars. Just wait till the flood gates open with all the Audi A1's, A3's and A4's hit the auction along with a million Fiat 500's. The manufacturers/dealers will then realise that the strength of the used car market (which is being used to prop up the low cost PCP deals) is not anywhere as strong as they thought. That A1 going for £199 per month with £199 deposit will soon be £299 per month with £2999 deposit. Plus, at the end of the PCP deal you have nothing to show for all your money paid. A new car is nice with no worries, I do get it, but for those of us wanting to own our assets and use them without being hit for bills at the end of the agreement and having to face the joyous baloon payment, then PCP is not everything. I am alone in my thoughts with this one I believe.
The other factor is the UK Government. Ban the diesel cars, ban the petrol cars, ban all the cars (that will come one day I kid you not). I remember the £500 road tax. Then the free road tax. Now, its the crazy tax system with initial big tax payments on new cars, with low tax after 5 years or whatever it is. Diesel cars are good, petrol is bad. No, wait, Petrol cars are ok but Electric cars are great, no Hybrids are good and Electric is best, no wait, Hybrids are to be banned, all Electric is good, public bus is better, walking is great, trapped in your shared housing scheme with no chance of making it in life is better. That's it.
No one knows where we are going apart from down the tubes. The goal posts change way to fast now and when it comes to trying to sell some decent used cars around the £5k mark so you can live just about seem to be on the cliff edge. It will not be long before all showrooms will just about rid of staff because who needs a salesman. Mechanics of old are finished by 2030 (forget 2040 - folks will want electric much earlier as to avoid complete loss of value in there car). Its looking pretty bleak in my view.
Great summary and would agree with all of it.One of the big changes I noticed was a serious lack of what I would call 'quality cars'. WBAC single-handedly changed the game by offering low-ball and insulting offers to folks for cars that would of sold easily for more if they were advertised privately on Autotrader for example.
As time has passed combined with massive advertising on all platforms, everyone heard about WBAC and more and more people became there victim. Hats off to British Car Auctions for doing this, they obviously seen that good lots were drying up as most dealers after the recession opened up there own 'part exchange centres' to sell the trade-ins and were quick to capitalize on the market of folks that needed a good quality, affordable run-around. These are cars that would normally be going through the auction.
Now, when WBAC started, people laughed at there offers. People I know would say 'what a bunch of jokers'. However, fast forward a few years and WBAC now has there price offers at a point where people would consider them. More so, they have convinced a lot of people in general (including many replying to this post) that there offer price is the bench mark to what the particular car in question is worth to the trade. Wow. They actually managed to convince seasoned sellers and buyers etc that whay there price of offer is/was is what the car is worth. Many do not realize that BCA owns WBAC.
The offer WBAC make is literally made on the almost guaranteed and educated view that the car will sell for more at the auction thus providing BCA/WBAC with there profits. So, next time you see an offer of £2,500 for a low mileage VW Polo for example, that means they expect to sell that car at auction for £2,800-£3,000 (reality is they fetch A LOT more) and bear in mind the buyer has to be the auction fees of circa £250. Add on a used car check, a wheel refurb, a paint repair or two, a service perhaps, an MOT, a valet, some transport costs, a warranty (if you can) and oh, yes some profit - the party is over.
With every man and his dog now turning to BCA to buy there stock (where a number of them would steer clear from auctions all together) prices are being pushed up for cars that would normally be valued less and thus the cars advertised are over-priced in general. Then, when the seller is going to sell and sees that WBAC is coming up the valuation of £2,500 for the fictitious VW Polo I mentioned (which is now advertised for £4,500 just to make sense of all the expenditure so far) then you see all you are doing is filling the pockets of the auction house. All of a sudden you start to question the whole idea of selling cars for your livlihood.
It's all easy for people to say you are to dear in the first place but I don't take to selling sub-standard cars. I spend the money on them to ensure the car is right. Not everyone is happy to buy the car they hope to buy with high miles, scuffed bumpers, kerbed wheels, various noises, dirty mats, stained interior, needing a service and only a few months left on the MOT, just because it was cheap. Just look at your own ideal preferences for buying a second hand car (that is if you do buy second hand). Everyone is different that I know, however not everyone wants to buy the cheapest shed going because it was the cheapest shed going.
The MX5 example I gave was a classic. There are cheap cars that are not perfect, and there are those that have all the extras and money spent to make them look and drive the part which are going for more. Turns out, the buyers that like the cars that were of the upper end of the market are now very thin on the ground which leads me to my next conclusion... recession and negative outlook.
All the negative news of late will surely not have helped. All these big name store closures can not be over-looked. Brexit fears (I was once skeptical about all the fear driven politics and decided to ignore them, not so much now when you add everything else into the mix). A lot of re-structuring going on in banks with branches closing, more AI on the scene, more money going to Amazon than ever before, more individual and small time business owners on the high street just not making the cut etc etc and all of a sudden things just look dismal. Then the reality of it all hits your door and you see a lack of calls one month to no calls the next. Reduce the prices, still no calls. Hold out because its summer, yes that must be it... keep telling yourself this if you dare.
PCP will no doubt be a factor in why things are quiet for used cars. That bubble will burst I believe unless you get PCP on used cars. Just wait till the flood gates open with all the Audi A1's, A3's and A4's hit the auction along with a million Fiat 500's. The manufacturers/dealers will then realise that the strength of the used car market (which is being used to prop up the low cost PCP deals) is not anywhere as strong as they thought. That A1 going for £199 per month with £199 deposit will soon be £299 per month with £2999 deposit. Plus, at the end of the PCP deal you have nothing to show for all your money paid. A new car is nice with no worries, I do get it, but for those of us wanting to own our assets and use them without being hit for bills at the end of the agreement and having to face the joyous baloon payment, then PCP is not everything. I am alone in my thoughts with this one I believe.
The other factor is the UK Government. Ban the diesel cars, ban the petrol cars, ban all the cars (that will come one day I kid you not). I remember the £500 road tax. Then the free road tax. Now, its the crazy tax system with initial big tax payments on new cars, with low tax after 5 years or whatever it is. Diesel cars are good, petrol is bad. No, wait, Petrol cars are ok but Electric cars are great, no Hybrids are good and Electric is best, no wait, Hybrids are to be banned, all Electric is good, public bus is better, walking is great, trapped in your shared housing scheme with no chance of making it in life is better. That's it.
No one knows where we are going apart from down the tubes. The goal posts change way to fast now and when it comes to trying to sell some decent used cars around the £5k mark so you can live just about seem to be on the cliff edge. It will not be long before all showrooms will just about rid of staff because who needs a salesman. Mechanics of old are finished by 2030 (forget 2040 - folks will want electric much earlier as to avoid complete loss of value in there car). Its looking pretty bleak in my view.
If I was going into trading cars I wouldn't go near auctions. I'd approach private sellers with cash offers. When I was selling my last car, a Type R GT with full annual main dealer history I didn't have one call from a dealer. Not one.
I ended up selling it to Evans Hallshaw. Dealer book would have given the lucky trader 1500 but did any call?
Yes they are popular and it was low mileage full MDSH unlike many that seem to have missed a service
I ended up selling it to Evans Hallshaw. Dealer book would have given the lucky trader 1500 but did any call?
Yes they are popular and it was low mileage full MDSH unlike many that seem to have missed a service
aka_kerrly said:
should the topic not be "overpriced used cars not selling"
just as an example from the lower end of the market ive seen plenty of cars that WBAC would offer £2k for, perhaps & 2500 at a push that are being advertised privately and at dealers for nigh on £4500-5500, there is surely not that big a margin between trade/retail.
even on autotrader it gives an indication if a price is good or not (presumably based on averages of that car/age) an some adverts are highly optimistic.
I think its a case of in slow markets with crap savings rates causes people to value their assets at the higher end of the scale.
I just bought a Prius for about 8.5k, it was the cheapest in the area I was willing to search that didnt have starship miles. There was one other with the same miles at 9.25k and another with lower miles at main dealer for 10k (and it wasn't in brilliant cosmetic condition, although they did say they were going sort it; every panel had dents, scrapes and scratches). just as an example from the lower end of the market ive seen plenty of cars that WBAC would offer £2k for, perhaps & 2500 at a push that are being advertised privately and at dealers for nigh on £4500-5500, there is surely not that big a margin between trade/retail.
even on autotrader it gives an indication if a price is good or not (presumably based on averages of that car/age) an some adverts are highly optimistic.
I think its a case of in slow markets with crap savings rates causes people to value their assets at the higher end of the scale.
There has been a few issues with mine; windscreen leaks, the tyres were a mix of winters and summers, the AC condenser had a hole in it. But as above, the other options weren't in much better shape.
8.5k was the cheapest. Similar cars with well over 100k miles on for not much less.
AT just valued my car at £7.3k absolute best, with 6.5 or so PX.
Hard to know what to think based on that. The initia price was listed as "good" on AT when I went to view it. But in the same breath they're saying its worth £7.3k tops. Evans Halshaw bought my Abarth off me for £8.3k..... WBAC offered £6.7k and AT said it was worth nearer 9!
Its all a bit hit and miss.
Oh yeah. No one wanted my 3.5yr old Abarth due to the high miles (69k). Never mind that it'd been serviced every 7000 miles, had all the major belts done, new Monza exhaust and only a few (repaired) stone chips to show for all it's miles. It was pretty mint. But it was immediately binned off on account of miles.
No private interest either. So sold to Evans for only a few hundred less than it was for sale for .
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Sunday 12th August 15:23
WJNB said:
Depends what is meant by "small time used car seller".
Proper licenced premises?
[b]Proper guarantees?
Proper servicing other than a lick of tyre paint?
Known to Mr Taxman?[/b]
Our towns & cities kerbs are littered by assorted cars parked with for sale signs & presumably part of somebody's illicit business or hobby. Some residents get fed up with the spaces taken & they get regularly keyed sadly rarely putting off the seller(s).
Maybe it's this tacky end of the trade that's taking business away from the professionals.
I think the honest small time trader is being crushed in the middle. Big players above them offering PCP deals on new and used cars, low life masquerading as private sellers at the bottom end working for a quick profit and meeting you at Tescos car park "only selling it because the wife doesnt like it mate", then moving to another disposable phone next week.Proper licenced premises?
[b]Proper guarantees?
Proper servicing other than a lick of tyre paint?
Known to Mr Taxman?[/b]
Our towns & cities kerbs are littered by assorted cars parked with for sale signs & presumably part of somebody's illicit business or hobby. Some residents get fed up with the spaces taken & they get regularly keyed sadly rarely putting off the seller(s).
Maybe it's this tacky end of the trade that's taking business away from the professionals.
I did all the bits highlighted but operated from home to keep overheads down - big back yard that can hold 10 cars and another storage compound off site. The premises were known to the council, DVLA, the tax man and the police (they needed to come out to approve the trade plates).
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
Do you sell finance packages with the cars?
I reckon if not than that's the reason for no sales.
As mentioned previously anything over a 1k banger needs to be financed these days as nobody has collateral. Instead they have a thirst for the latest German manufactures offerings on a 3+24.
A 3rd old offering is not going to fly because it's 13 thousand pounds and it's old......never mind the 12yr old example.
If I look up and down the street I live on it's littered with cars under 3yr old undoubtedly on a pcp or lease. Some addresses have several.
I reckon if not than that's the reason for no sales.
As mentioned previously anything over a 1k banger needs to be financed these days as nobody has collateral. Instead they have a thirst for the latest German manufactures offerings on a 3+24.
A 3rd old offering is not going to fly because it's 13 thousand pounds and it's old......never mind the 12yr old example.
If I look up and down the street I live on it's littered with cars under 3yr old undoubtedly on a pcp or lease. Some addresses have several.
Edited by coljoh148 on Sunday 12th August 18:29
m3jappa said:
Surely its that everyone or at least massive amounts of people now lease.
£xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
This. £xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
The 15k used stuff I really don’t get - run around for three years in that and the cost in depreciation and maintainence etc really isn’t that much different than leasing a brand new one every two years, and not only that you’re still driving round in an old car. 50 -100 a month more. That’s not much in the scheme of things.
Take Mrs DS for example - she has a 14 year old V70. It drinks fuel (she does 6k a year, works from home), it’s expensive to tax and insure, I have to service it and fix it (it’s blowing it’s exhaust and needs new drop links this week).
I honestly cannot be bothered with this caper anymore - you can lease a little supermini for 99 a month - why on earth would you buy a used car?
ETA: first place I looked - decent little cars for around 100 a month. It’s peanuts - why on. Earth would I buy a car and have the bother associated with it?
Edited by Dog Star on Sunday 12th August 19:07
swisstoni said:
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
Huge numbers go out to Ireland every year .. and the numbers keep growing If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
Add those that go to other rhd markets and it’s a significant number
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/0112/9328...
Dog Star said:
m3jappa said:
Surely its that everyone or at least massive amounts of people now lease.
£xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
This. £xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
The 15k used stuff I really don’t get - run around for three years in that and the cost in depreciation and maintainence etc really isn’t that much different than leasing a brand new one every two years, and not only that you’re still driving round in an old car. 50 -100 a month more. That’s not much in the scheme of things.
Take Mrs DS for example - she has a 14 year old V70. It drinks fuel (she does 6k a year, works from home), it’s expensive to tax and insure, I have to service it and fix it (it’s blowing it’s exhaust and needs new drop links this week).
I honestly cannot be bothered with this caper anymore - you can lease a little supermini for 99 a month - why on earth would you buy a used car?
ETA: first place I looked - decent little cars for around 100 a month. It’s peanuts - why on. Earth would I buy a car and have the bother associated with it?
Edited by Dog Star on Sunday 12th August 19:07
He Recently leased two Vauxhall Vivas for them and got rid of the bangers .. his was a Mitsubishi (lacking ) carisma and she had an old Corsa
I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
Earthdweller said:
Dog Star said:
m3jappa said:
Surely its that everyone or at least massive amounts of people now lease.
£xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
This. £xxx per month for a brand new car with no tax to pay, no mot, no problems, warranty and better mpg than an older unknown car.
The 15k used stuff I really don’t get - run around for three years in that and the cost in depreciation and maintainence etc really isn’t that much different than leasing a brand new one every two years, and not only that you’re still driving round in an old car. 50 -100 a month more. That’s not much in the scheme of things.
Take Mrs DS for example - she has a 14 year old V70. It drinks fuel (she does 6k a year, works from home), it’s expensive to tax and insure, I have to service it and fix it (it’s blowing it’s exhaust and needs new drop links this week).
I honestly cannot be bothered with this caper anymore - you can lease a little supermini for 99 a month - why on earth would you buy a used car?
ETA: first place I looked - decent little cars for around 100 a month. It’s peanuts - why on. Earth would I buy a car and have the bother associated with it?
Edited by Dog Star on Sunday 12th August 19:07
He Recently leased two Vauxhall Vivas for them and got rid of the bangers .. his was a Mitsubishi (lacking ) carisma and she had an old Corsa
I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
Our lease (a c200 amg line premium plus) is up for renewal next march. This car has cost 15k over 3 years, wheres it going to go when we give it back? the price for it from a main dealer per month will be i would imagine not far different to the 344 a month we have paid.
Im in a quandary, i would like to cut some costs and have been looking at various cars and really leasing is the best option for us, i will say lease prices in general have gone up a bit though.
i dont want to buy a car outright, i can't afford 30, 40 grand plus and i dont want to spend 15k outright on a car which is a few years old, might need tyres, big service, no warranty and may need stuff like brakes, clutch etc.
As a side thought diggers are the same. i bought a brand new kubota for 14.5k plus vat. on finance over 5 yrs its 278 per mth. after 5 years it will be worth around 11k. so would have cost me 3.5k
if i bought one for 5 years old it would have cost me 11k plus vat, been a little bit less per month and been worth maybe 6k after 5yrs. it may also have had its hours knocked back, been f
ked, been stolen, need a lot doing to it. a few years ago i bought another digger which was 6k plus vat outright, i must have spent at least 3k on it and its still a bag of st. im just ordering another new one on finance........just doesnt make sense not to. interest rates on new ones are lower than old ones and it just doesnt make a lot of difference to the overall cost.swisstoni said:
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
I think thats all a bit conspiracy theorist but i do know that the margins on used cars are nowhere near what they need to be to give people the standard of car they seem to have come to expect. They want the cheapest car, but expect a cast iron warranty and fault free motoring but frankly arent prepared to pay for it.If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
Earthdweller said:
He Recently leased two Vauxhall Vivas for them and got rid of the bangers .. his was a Mitsubishi (lacking ) carisma and she had an old Corsa
I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
Bing! Your mate gets it! Why the hell would you go and buy used?I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
I’ve got a Merc E class coupe - it’s much more expensive than that at 390 a month (3+23, 15k/year) absolutely festooned with extras, pano roof etc etc. That doesn’t even cover depreciation I reckon, and there is just no hassle at all. It’s cheaper than getting a used one.
Dog Star said:
The 15k used stuff I really don’t get - run around for three years in that and the cost in depreciation and maintainence etc really isn’t that much different than leasing a brand new one every two years, and not only that you’re still driving round in an old car. 50 -100 a month more. That’s not much in the scheme of things.
Most of my cars have been two to three year old cars purchased every two to three years. Last year I passed a very nice looking year old 208GTI sitting on the local Peugeot dealer's forecourt and thought "I'll 'ave it". Drove out with a brand new PCPed (1st time ever) example as once manufacturer's deposit contribution, subsidised finance and service plan were factored into the equation three years ownership of the brand new car worked out cheaper than buying the older version.If that is the case surely no-one will buy second hand. If that is the case wont older cars eventually be worth nothing? If that is the case is the current model manufacturers use to maintain demand for new units sustainable? If not, when the contract is done, should I replace my new PCPed car with something old reliable and Japanese or Korean and hunker down for the crash?
Oh and as we are so worried about image on PH what would you think of a tanned bald middle-aged man knocking about in an 08-10 Toyota Auris or Chevy Cruze? Secret multi millionaire perhaps?
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Sunday 12th August 20:09
Here's an interesting case study as to why there will still be a market for used cars:
I had a customer buy a 3 year old car this weekend for £15000ish: £1000 deposit, 47x£280 plus final payment.
Taking note of some of the comments I read on here, I thought I would see how much I could lease a new one for, and the answer was 3+47 at £280 a month.
Wow, so you can lease a brand a new one for the same as a 3 year old one - no brainer, eh?
Except that the customer intended to change it after 3 years, which he could on the PCP, but not without an unknown penalty on the new car lease.
So recalculating to 3+35 gave a payment of £312 - not difficult to justify the extra if you can afford it...
Except that what attracted him to my car was the spec including auto box, pan roof, wheel upgrade and a few other trinkets totalling around £3000 as options when new. Add those to the lease cost and now you are over £400pm
So bearing in mind that when he left the house this morning he had a picture in his head of the car that he wanted and a budget in mind of around £250, can you see how someone would accept a 3 year old car that broadly meets his chosen criteria, rather than a new one that either doesn't fit the picture or costs more than 150% of what he planned to spend.
I had a customer buy a 3 year old car this weekend for £15000ish: £1000 deposit, 47x£280 plus final payment.
Taking note of some of the comments I read on here, I thought I would see how much I could lease a new one for, and the answer was 3+47 at £280 a month.
Wow, so you can lease a brand a new one for the same as a 3 year old one - no brainer, eh?
Except that the customer intended to change it after 3 years, which he could on the PCP, but not without an unknown penalty on the new car lease.
So recalculating to 3+35 gave a payment of £312 - not difficult to justify the extra if you can afford it...
Except that what attracted him to my car was the spec including auto box, pan roof, wheel upgrade and a few other trinkets totalling around £3000 as options when new. Add those to the lease cost and now you are over £400pm
So bearing in mind that when he left the house this morning he had a picture in his head of the car that he wanted and a budget in mind of around £250, can you see how someone would accept a 3 year old car that broadly meets his chosen criteria, rather than a new one that either doesn't fit the picture or costs more than 150% of what he planned to spend.
Dog Star said:
Earthdweller said:
He Recently leased two Vauxhall Vivas for them and got rid of the bangers .. his was a Mitsubishi (lacking ) carisma and she had an old Corsa
I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
Bing! Your mate gets it! Why the hell would you go and buy used?I think it’s £89 each per month for them .. he reckons it’s costing him no more than running the sheds
I’ve got a Merc E class coupe - it’s much more expensive than that at 390 a month (3+23, 15k/year) absolutely festooned with extras, pano roof etc etc. That doesn’t even cover depreciation I reckon, and there is just no hassle at all. It’s cheaper than getting a used one.
This is a really interesting thread lets not turn it into another rent v's buy rent, that has been covered so many times recently, this particular thread is interesting as its covering much wider points (which I for one would love to hear other peoples views on but not just the leasing v's purchase option).
I think we are close to a big consumer spending crash, if families can no longer afford a cheap (up to £5k) car anymore that is an interesting question, whats going on?
Its not price related on these mid priced nice used cars, you can change the price + or - £1,000 to what autotrader recommends at the moment and there are still no enquiries, this is for normal things like S Max, 3 series, Golfs with a warranty and p/x etc these sort of cars normally just 'sell themselves' - but not at the moment, 2018 sales suddenly declined.
Dog Star said:
I honestly cannot be bothered with this caper anymore - you can lease a little supermini for 99 a month - why on earth would you buy a used car?
ETA: first place I looked - decent little cars for around 100 a month. It’s peanuts - why on. Earth would I buy a car and have the bother associated with it?
I love it when people ignore the initial payment. ETA: first place I looked - decent little cars for around 100 a month. It’s peanuts - why on. Earth would I buy a car and have the bother associated with it?
Mind you, what first brought leasing to my attention was seeing the previous model VW Tiguan advertised at £89/mth.
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