RE: BMW 8 Series Gran Coupe first look
Discussion
E65Ross said:
So this 8 series isn't a proper 8 series because it's similar to the old 6 series.
Erm....wasn't the 8 series similar to the very old 6? (ie big 2 door coupe)?
For fErm....wasn't the 8 series similar to the very old 6? (ie big 2 door coupe)?
ks sake. Where DO they come from? 
:roll eyes:Erm.....no it wasn't you fool.
The 8 Series was bigger. In a higher price category. V12 engine. A technical showcase with complex electronics, multi link rear suspension, AHK. It had four wheels, two doors, four seats and an engine. So yes, similar.............
You and ARSE should form a double act. Two halfwits might form a whole one.
Edited by iSore on Thursday 25th October 16:48
Edited by iSore on Thursday 25th October 16:49
Ares said:
But given your comments that despite the 'true' 8-series being a flop, they were more desirable.... What should BMW have done to launch a more halo product?
To satisfy that small element of PH, I think that they would have had to have done something which they could not actually do. No diesel engines, and none of the big bulbous styling needed for crash safety etc etc. I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
kambites said:
Ares said:
I get that no car styling is all things to all, but to me, I can't see how that can be ugly/gopping/f*cking gash/horrendous/etc. It may not be to someones tase, they might not think it beautiful, they might not even think it is in anyway attractive, but ugly/gopping/etc?
As with the Z4, I personally don't like it and indeed I might go so far as to use the word "ugly"... but only in a mild rather generic sort of way. It's certainly not offensive. iSore said:
For fks sake. Where DO they come from? :roll eyes:
Erm.....no it wasn't you fool.
The 8 Series was bigger. In a higher price category. V12 engine. A technical showcase with complex electronics, multi link rear suspension, AHK. It had four wheels, two doors, four seats and an engine. So yes, similar.............
You and ARSE should form a double act. Two halfwits might form a whole one.
You are pretty much proving the point (the one we made without resorting to school yard insults).ks sake. Where DO they come from? :roll eyes:Erm.....no it wasn't you fool.
The 8 Series was bigger. In a higher price category. V12 engine. A technical showcase with complex electronics, multi link rear suspension, AHK. It had four wheels, two doors, four seats and an engine. So yes, similar.............
You and ARSE should form a double act. Two halfwits might form a whole one.
Shakermaker said:
To satisfy that small element of PH, I think that they would have had to have done something which they could not actually do. No diesel engines, and none of the big bulbous styling needed for crash safety etc etc.
I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
Good post Sir. You mean this car - the concept. It's absolutely stunning, such a well balanced, clean design. Big petrol engine only and make it exactly like this. Yes, it looks a bit Astonesque but that is the kind of market they needed to be in if they were going to attract the folk who buy £200'000 Mercs. As soon as they added the big ugly door handles, the crass Hondalike rear bumper and a fI am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
king diesel engine, game over. It's no longer in that segment where they can charge what they like (within reason).
Shakermaker said:
To satisfy that small element of PH, I think that they would have had to have done something which they could not actually do. No diesel engines, and none of the big bulbous styling needed for crash safety etc etc.
I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
Another point to consider is that in the day of the old E24 6 Series, BMW as a company were very different, and the marque was far more exotic, intriguing. Not many were sold here and so B.M.W were seen as being expensive, much better made than Ford/BL stuff and thanks to the CS Coupes and the rocketship 3.0Si saloons, genuinely fast cars - and rare. The 633CSi was a tad more expensive than a 308GT4......I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
I had hoped that the 8 Series would have been a similar exercise to this in 'f
k it - we're doing it anyway'. But alas, no.Roll on the 820d M Sport!
Ares said:
Ok....so....I'd be genuinely interested, in your opinion, what current car sits at this opposite end of the spectrum to be beautiful/etc?
I'm not sure there are any current mainstream cars that I'd use the word "beautiful" for - modern cars are just so... fussy. The compound curves most manufacturers use to disguise the bulk below the shoulder line are just horrible and why does a car of this sort need to have such aggressive lines and cut-outs in the bumpers? All manufacturers do this to some extent these days, but the European executive manufacturers seem to take it to extremes. What's wrong with smooth simple curves? I suppose the closest I can think of is the F-Type but the front end, especially the headlight design, lets it down for me.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th October 16:57
iSore said:
Ares said:
You are pretty much proving the point (the one we made without resorting to school yard insults).
Jesus.............
iSore said:
Another point to consider is that in the day of the old E24 6 Series, BMW as a company were very different, and the marque was far more exotic, intriguing. Not many were sold here and so B.M.W were seen as being expensive, much better made than Ford/BL stuff and thanks to the CS Coupes and the rocketship 3.0Si saloons, genuinely fast cars - and rare. The 633CSi was a tad more expensive than a 308GT4......
I had hoped that the 8 Series would have been a similar exercise to this in 'fk it - we're doing it anyway'. But alas, no.
Roll on the 820d M Sport!
It was never going to be though, or made any attempt at being so, was it.I had hoped that the 8 Series would have been a similar exercise to this in 'f
k it - we're doing it anyway'. But alas, no.Roll on the 820d M Sport!
It's a stab at the Merc SL or maybe slightly below the S-Class Coupe.
You may scoff at the 840d, but aside from the fact it will still give an impressive turn of speed (I know having had a 640d), it will account for the bulk of the sales which will top up the 850i and pave the way for the M8.
There will never be an 820d....but then you knew that.
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
There will never be an 820d.
I didn't think they'd ever do a 620d...so anything is possible sadly. There was never a 620d, nor a 630d in the last generation (the 6-series coupe). There certainly won't be with the new 8.
Shakermaker said:
To satisfy that small element of PH, I think that they would have had to have done something which they could not actually do. No diesel engines, and none of the big bulbous styling needed for crash safety etc etc.
I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
Yes you say base spec models at 6 or 8 cylinders but the base 8 series will have a straight 6 diesel that would out perform the old 850i in every way possible, now that’s not to say the 5.0 V12 was rubbish, but cars have come a long way, the 840d will have 320 bhp with 480 lbft, that’s E36 M3 power.I am a huge fan of the old E24 6 series, I had one. I also love the old 8 series, though I've never had one.
Part of their appeal to me is that they were visually distinct models from others in the line up at the time - OK the 6 looked a bit like a 5 or a 7 at the front with the shark nose, but the rear profile was pretty much unique, and the 8 didn't look like any other model.
And with both models, even the "base" spec got you a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol engine, there was no "2 litre shopping model" option for either, no diesel option. It is why I prefer the old 6 or 8 to the old 3 and 5, because with both, there's always the risk that when you see one, it might be a tarted up 316 or 520d etc. I know that's a snobby attitude, especially from me as someone who today drives a diesel Skoda. But its my own rose-tinted view of what a high-number BMW model needs to deliver.
Times have changed though, and we all know that to really make the M8 and M6 models viable, BMW will have needed to sell a great many more 630d/840d models and will continue to do so.
Its probably part of the same argument about why "M-sport is bad" to some people.
I understand your rose tinted view of what a flagship BMW should be but the fact is, an 840d will be the best seller and the one which makes the most sense, if I had serious money, I’m not sure why I’d pick the M850i over the diesel, because chances are, if you can pay the 100+ grand for one, you’d have another toy to satisfy your needs, I.e sound and all out performance.
I love and hate diesels, I hate them in small cars but love them in big cars as they make so much more sense than a big pointless thirsty V8 doing a slightly better job than the lesser, cheaper, more economical diesel.
Triumph Man said:
Ares said:
There will never be an 820d....but then you knew that.
There's a 725d (inevitably a 4 banger), so not hugely unlikely I wouldn't have (unfortunately) thoughtE65Ross said:
TwinExit said:
It's not a real 8 series unless it has pop up head lights and sports an almost unnoticed kidney grill.
But we all know mediocrity and mass appeal wins the day, so I'm sure this abomination will sell well.
Things evolve.But we all know mediocrity and mass appeal wins the day, so I'm sure this abomination will sell well.
By your logic a 3 series isn't a 3 series without a shark nose
Only folks struck right up BMW's proverbial back-side would defend the current method of mass-market platform sharing 2 year life cycle churning out of cars.
TwinExit said:
E65Ross said:
TwinExit said:
It's not a real 8 series unless it has pop up head lights and sports an almost unnoticed kidney grill.
But we all know mediocrity and mass appeal wins the day, so I'm sure this abomination will sell well.
Things evolve.But we all know mediocrity and mass appeal wins the day, so I'm sure this abomination will sell well.
By your logic a 3 series isn't a 3 series without a shark nose
Only folks struck right up BMW's proverbial back-side would defend the current method of mass-market platform sharing 2 year life cycle churning out of cars.
Ares said:
14yrs ago....PH posters were bhing about the new 6 being ridiculous compared to the proper 6-series in the 70s, and that the 6 was basically no more than a 5-series coupe....
But given your comments that despite the 'true' 8-series being a flop, they were more desirable.... What should BMW have done to launch a more halo product?
In today's climate, established marques do not need 'halo' products when they have a captive market due to strong brand power. A 'super' BMW is difficult to justify among the top brass. Where as a small car maker who needs to make a name for themselves are more inclined to come up with more creative designs.hing about the new 6 being ridiculous compared to the proper 6-series in the 70s, and that the 6 was basically no more than a 5-series coupe....But given your comments that despite the 'true' 8-series being a flop, they were more desirable.... What should BMW have done to launch a more halo product?
All we can agree on is the new 8 series will be one of the most expensive and option rich models of their line up, something for existing BMW owners to 'aspire' having and thus keeping them locked into the growing upgrade path.
TwinExit said:
In today's climate, established marques do not need 'halo' products when they have a captive market due to strong brand power. A 'super' BMW is difficult to justify among the top brass. Where as a small car maker who needs to make a name for themselves are more inclined to come up with more creative designs.
All we can agree on is the new 8 series will be one of the most expensive and option rich models of their line up, something for existing BMW owners to 'aspire' having and thus keeping them locked into the growing upgrade path.
All premium brands benefit from a halo product.All we can agree on is the new 8 series will be one of the most expensive and option rich models of their line up, something for existing BMW owners to 'aspire' having and thus keeping them locked into the growing upgrade path.
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