Is this classed as Undertaking?

[Mr Tidy]

Yes, using L1 works very well on the M3 now it has another lane!

So now there are 2 lanes that aren't usually used outside of rush hours (like on Tuesday night) !

I'm pretty sure it was Clarkson who said something about when they put an extra lane on a motorway they put it on the wrong side!

[ToothbrushMan]

so long as it meets the HCode i dont care what you call it. Technically it might be classed as undertaking but the word suggests an air of a deliberate move to get past somebody on the inside. i'll go with the highway code though if this is what they want to call it but i dont have to agree with the use of that word.

i do feel smug if i am cruising along in L1 on a nice clear day doing a steady 65-70 passing all the lemmings in L2 and L3 (or L4) who must suffer from
some kind of allergic reaction if they drive in a fairly clear L1 because a good proportion of motorway drivers just want to "be at the front" (chasing rainbow syndrome that youll never get). Go careful for the idiot who might wake up up and take a dislike to you going past them.

hands up if you have been in a situation where there is nobody in L2 and you have a steady line of "competitive dad" types in L3 moving slower and you sail past in L1? Feels good. Getting away from the idiots who hate having another car in front of the them or get overtaken by.

[Chamon_Lee]

32Ford29 said:

Douglas Quaid said:

If you’re in the middle lane you should be able to pull back over to the left lane without indicating at any point. If someone is undertaking and blocking that manoeuvre they’re in the wrong.

Why would you not indicate?

Just speechless. Happy to be corrected but it's this sort of made up bullst people spread around and People are silly enough to believe it too.

Unreal

[Alex_225]

If you're doing the speed limit and there's a muppet in lane two or three sitting there doing less than the speed limit then going past them in lane one is not undertaking. You're keeping with the flow of the traffic and the lane hoggers should be keeping left anyway.

Overtaking on the left is a different thing though. If you're planning to overtake a vehicle and require changing lanes you always overtake on the right so lane two to lane three etc. Overtaking on the left is clearly dangerous as that vehicle may move back to lane one (as they rightly should!!) as you go to pass or may not realise that's the lane you're taking and cause an accident. Even something you have to be mindful of when passing slower vehicles in lanes to your right anyway.

As for indicating, well strictly speaking it should be assumed that the other vehicle would be returning to lane one so may move across. But why not indicate your intentions? That's the idea, you indicate to show your intention of changing lanes. To change lanes (without indicating) on purpose to block a vehicle passing you just out of a dogged principle is not good driving!

[Collaudatore]

As I understand it, passing on the left is permitted in three situations.

Heavily congested/slow moving traffic (this is based on judgement)
When the car in front is indicating to turn right
One-way streets.

[MalcolmSmith]

I was under the impression that you had to indicate to return to the left if on a motorway, dual carriageway or other one way system?

[Gad-Westy]

MalcolmSmith said:

I was under the impression that you had to indicate to return to the left if on a motorway, dual carriageway or other one way system?

It's certainly good practice but doesn't absolve you of responsibility to not hit someone who is occupying the space to your left which is what was suggested earlier.

I've seen the highway code quoted lots of times and I still don't know if what I do everyday is acceptable or not. A1 southbound in Tyne and Wear. You have a section about 4 miles long where 2 lanes becomes 3 lanes. The third lane forms on the inside where a slip road comes on. 90% of traffic does not move over to use the new inside lane. It's nearly always what I would describe as congested with traffic travelling between 30 and 50 mph. The limit is 50. On many occasions, I'll sit in the inside lane doing 50mph and 'undertake' countless cars in the outer two lanes. In this scenario I would say that all lanes are not always travelling at similar speeds but often are within 10mph or so of each other. I would say that complies with the HC but the poster earlier says he was pulled over for doing something that sounds more or less identical.

[Reffro]

MalcolmSmith said:

I was under the impression that you had to indicate to return to the left if on a motorway, dual carriageway or other one way system?

Nope. As you are only in lane 2,3 or 4 to complete an overtake, you are expected to return to the left lanes to continue normal driving. Indicating is required when you are doing something unexpected to alert other road users to this.

[one_eighty]

It is my understanding that if you're doing 65 in l1 and someone in l2 is doing 60 then they're at fault as they should be in l1.

[djc206]

Reffro said:

Nope. As you are only in lane 2,3 or 4 to complete an overtake, you are expected to return to the left lanes to continue normal driving. Indicating is required when you are doing something unexpected to alert other road users to this.

bks.


Rule 103
Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see ‘Signals to other road users), of your intended actions. You should always:

-give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
-use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
-cancel them after use
-make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. -Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
-use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority


So clearly any change of course or direction which a lane change is should be accompanied by a signal.

Pair this with

Rule 133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

[CambsBill]

Mr Tidy said:

I'm pretty sure it was Clarkson who said something about when they put an extra lane on a motorway they put it on the wrong side!

And he's quite right. I've 'undertaken' cars that were sitting in L3 or even L4 on virtually empty sections of motorway. By the letter of s268 I was presumably in the wrong because no congestion etc

[saaby93]

daniel1920 said:

When the m1 is busy, I see L1 as the exclusive, hidden, private lane. You can cruise along at 57, matching the lorries. You will encounter another car about once every 5 minutes, then sit back and watch the (slow) mayhem of L2&3.

The worst thing is if the people in L1 try to push in up ahead and so lead to the mayhem in L2&L3

So by all means use L1 if it's empty,
If you catch up with something like a truck or caravan, stay in L1 until the L2 and L3 traffic has come past before moving out,
otherwise you're queue jumping

[captain_cynic]

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q891.htm

You can pass on the left if the vehicle is turning right or if the left hand lane lane is moving faster.

You should not overtake to the left, this means leaving a right hand lane and re-entering it. There is no specific offence for overtaking on the left, a cop could pull you up for careless driving, but you'd have to be doing something more daft than just overtaking on the left. The likelihood of being pulled over for undertaking is negligible if you do it properly.

saaby93 said:

So by all means use L1 if it's empty,
If you catch up with something like a truck or caravan, stay in L1 until the L2 and L3 traffic has come past before moving out,
otherwise you're queue jumping

Its not queue jumping, you're passing lane hoggers who aren't keeping left. Sometimes thanks to MLM's L1 is my own personal motorway.

[saaby93]

captain_cynic said:

Its not queue jumping, you're passing lane hoggers who aren't keeping left. Sometimes thanks to MLM's L1 is my own personal motorway.

as I said by all means use L1 if its clear but dont use it as a means to push in ahead and force the people in L2 and L3 further back down the queue

[Car-Matt]

Reffro said:

MalcolmSmith said:

I was under the impression that you had to indicate to return to the left if on a motorway, dual carriageway or other one way system?

Nope. As you are only in lane 2,3 or 4 to complete an overtake, you are expected to return to the left lanes to continue normal driving. Indicating is required when you are doing something unexpected to alert other road users to this.

utter nonsense

[so called]

Interesting for me is that, as the lane numbers increase, the lane rules need to be reviewed.
If your on a 4, 5, 6 7 lane motorway as in somewhere like Sacramento, applying a rule like the UK 'only on the right', which would be left in the US becomes dangerous if you have to change several lanes to avoid undertaking.
It simply doesn't work on such large motorways.

[jimmy156]

Gad-Westy said:

It's certainly good practice but doesn't absolve you of responsibility to not hit someone who is occupying the space to your left which is what was suggested earlier.

I've seen the highway code quoted lots of times and I still don't know if what I do everyday is acceptable or not. A1 southbound in Tyne and Wear. You have a section about 4 miles long where 2 lanes becomes 3 lanes. The third lane forms on the inside where a slip road comes on. 90% of traffic does not move over to use the new inside lane. It's nearly always what I would describe as congested with traffic travelling between 30 and 50 mph. The limit is 50. On many occasions, I'll sit in the inside lane doing 50mph and 'undertake' countless cars in the outer two lanes. In this scenario I would say that all lanes are not always travelling at similar speeds but often are within 10mph or so of each other. I would say that complies with the HC but the poster earlier says he was pulled over for doing something that sounds more or less identical.

The point is that it becomes subjective due to the wording in the HC, i.e it would be down to the subjective opinion of the traffic cop as to whether the speeds were similar / roads were congested when he decides to pull you (or not)

My rule of thumb is that if all lanes have cars following a few seconds apart, and no lanes are exceeding the speed limit of the road, then i am happy to sit in whichever lane i am in (usually L1) and move past any traffic that happens to be slower than the lane i am in.

I will also continue at 70 or less in an empty / clear L1 of the above applies to the other lanes. But this is probably closer to falling foul of the subjective opinion of a copper!

[jamiehamy]

djc206 said:

bks.


Rule 103
Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see ‘Signals to other road users), of your intended actions. You should always:

-give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
-use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
-cancel them after use
-make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. -Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
-use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority


So clearly any change of course or direction which a lane change is should be accompanied by a signal.

Pair this with

Rule 133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

Clearly nothing - on a motorway or dual carriage way you are expected to return to the left after passing. You should indicate if it provides a benefit to other road users, or as Malcolm said another road user might not expect it. But you do not require to indicate when moving back to the nearside as a default - only if necessary.

[captain_cynic]

saaby93 said:

as I said by all means use L1 if its clear but dont use it as a means to push in ahead and force the people in L2 and L3 further back down the queue

As I said, you're not pushing in. You're making progress against people who should have been smart enough to use L1.

[Collaudatore]

Y'all know the Highway Code is not the same as the Road Traffic Act?
It is only a list of guidelines and best practices unless it says "must" or some such..

Re indicating one's intention to return left after an overtake, I always used to do this until one day on an advanced driving course the instructor asked me why I did so.
My idea was that a simple one flash of the left indicator/repeater signalled pretty well my intentions, he agreed somewhat, but advised that it didn't benefit anyone in practical terms.

Now I do not generally signal left after an overtake unless someone is approaching fast from the rear and I am in the righthand-most land. Again, this is subjective.

Edited by Collaudatore on Wednesday 15th August 11:20