RE: BMW 330i M Sport prototype: Driven
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Simple : you can be a enthusiast and prefer auto, not that there is an agreed definition of what an enthusiast is. It's possible that different enthusiasts like different things.
Isn't that the point he's making? That modern autos are so good that a non-enthusiast will almost certainly prefer the auto but enthusiasts are more likely to have varying opinions irrespective of which is objectively "best".cerb4.5lee said:
I must be the only one who actually likes the switch from a 6 cyl NA to a 4 cyl Turbo. My old E90 330i felt as flat as a pancake unless you revved the backside off it. Plus this new 330i has the same amount of torque as my V8 M3 did...only it comes in even earlier.
I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
Sound and character is what is lost with the 2 less cylinders. I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
Not fussed about efficiency or the need to use the upper limits of the rev range, I want to smile when I drive my car.
I cannot believe the amount hate the car is receiving, the 3 Series is the class leader in this sector.
The new model will cement its position as the best and they will sell thousands of them.
I am very excited for this car as it is the logical replacement for my 4 series.
I don’t understand why people moan about the lack of a manual transmission. Manuals have been standard on the 340i’s for a few years now and if you look on the classifieds, you probably won’t find one, why should they offer something that doesn’t sell!
I love the look of it and the interior, the current F30 model does look dated inside in standard form and is in desperate need of a refresh.
The only reason the C class outsells the 3 is because of the ridiculous deals they have on them, when I was looking to lease a few years ago, I kept on ending up on the C class as it was so much cheaper, I asked the guy from the leasing company why this was and he said Mercedes just build thousands of them and sell them at a discounted price to the finance companies who then lease them. Even new E220d AMG lines are peanuts, from 300 a month on a 6+23 deal.
I’m in a 630d GT at the moment, massive car, huge, heavy but to drive its brilliant, infotainment system is great, interior is solid and the engine is a power house, can’t even tell it’s a diesel unless you’re idling and that’s if you’re standing outside. The 630d GT is the opposite of what every typical PH’er stands for and to drive, it’s brilliant, the 3 series will be lighter, sharper and quicker with the same engine so I don’t see how the G20 will crap to drive, the 630d GT I’m in now doesn’t feel heavy at all, or big for that matter unless you’re trying to park or do a 3 point turn.
I cannot wait for this new 3 Series and will be looking to buy one, hopefully the M340i will be better equipped than the F30 340i.
The new model will cement its position as the best and they will sell thousands of them.
I am very excited for this car as it is the logical replacement for my 4 series.
I don’t understand why people moan about the lack of a manual transmission. Manuals have been standard on the 340i’s for a few years now and if you look on the classifieds, you probably won’t find one, why should they offer something that doesn’t sell!
I love the look of it and the interior, the current F30 model does look dated inside in standard form and is in desperate need of a refresh.
The only reason the C class outsells the 3 is because of the ridiculous deals they have on them, when I was looking to lease a few years ago, I kept on ending up on the C class as it was so much cheaper, I asked the guy from the leasing company why this was and he said Mercedes just build thousands of them and sell them at a discounted price to the finance companies who then lease them. Even new E220d AMG lines are peanuts, from 300 a month on a 6+23 deal.
I’m in a 630d GT at the moment, massive car, huge, heavy but to drive its brilliant, infotainment system is great, interior is solid and the engine is a power house, can’t even tell it’s a diesel unless you’re idling and that’s if you’re standing outside. The 630d GT is the opposite of what every typical PH’er stands for and to drive, it’s brilliant, the 3 series will be lighter, sharper and quicker with the same engine so I don’t see how the G20 will crap to drive, the 630d GT I’m in now doesn’t feel heavy at all, or big for that matter unless you’re trying to park or do a 3 point turn.
I cannot wait for this new 3 Series and will be looking to buy one, hopefully the M340i will be better equipped than the F30 340i.
I’ve got a f30 335d and love it. Auto box is fine and is loads different to the same box in a 320d (I’ve tried both). Got used to the x drive but I changed the springs within a month of buying the car brand new in 2015. It was like a barge compared to the e90.
Think I’ll look at either the 335d or 340i in the new range, I’d be happy in either one. Maybe an m3 one day!!!
Think I’ll look at either the 335d or 340i in the new range, I’d be happy in either one. Maybe an m3 one day!!!
BaronVonVaderham said:
Sound and character is what is lost with the 2 less cylinders.
Not fussed about efficiency or the need to use the upper limits of the rev range, I want to smile when I drive my car.
Same here, the nasp n53 coupled to the ZF8 in my near 2 ton f10 barge is a peach. Torque converters and final drives adjust the wheel torque. Rev when you need to. Certainly not flat unless you're in the wrong (manual) gear.Not fussed about efficiency or the need to use the upper limits of the rev range, I want to smile when I drive my car.
Max_Torque said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I must be the only one who actually likes the switch from a 6 cyl NA to a 4 cyl Turbo. My old E90 330i felt as flat as a pancake unless you revved the backside off it. Plus this new 330i has the same amount of torque as my V8 M3 did...only it comes in even earlier.
I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
i Agree! The real horror for me is all the xDrive nonsense, which seems to be increasingly not an option on anything properly pokey in their model range. If you live in the Alps, fair enough, buy the xDrive model, but please stop ruining perfectly decent rwd cars with all that extra pointless mass and clobber. Leave it to Audi, they've been ruining their cars with it for years....... ;-)I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
One M car (M5) and the 335d.
And from reports on the M5, it is a belting solution.
kambites said:
nickfrog said:
Simple : you can be a enthusiast and prefer auto, not that there is an agreed definition of what an enthusiast is. It's possible that different enthusiasts like different things.
Isn't that the point he's making? That modern autos are so good that a non-enthusiast will almost certainly prefer the auto but enthusiasts are more likely to have varying opinions irrespective of which is objectively "best".The fact that a niche of car beards lament the demise of manual gearboxes meaning that the 5-8yr old car they buy for 50p and a cocker (in 5-8yrs time) will likely be an auto is of minimal concern to said manufacturers, who will assume the afore mentioned beards will find some other archaic technology to w
k over. 
BaronVonVaderham said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I must be the only one who actually likes the switch from a 6 cyl NA to a 4 cyl Turbo. My old E90 330i felt as flat as a pancake unless you revved the backside off it. Plus this new 330i has the same amount of torque as my V8 M3 did...only it comes in even earlier.
I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
Sound and character is what is lost with the 2 less cylinders. I'm all for Turbos in the heavy 3 series for sure. Shame its gone Auto only though, but I do understand that the market wants that.
Not fussed about efficiency or the need to use the upper limits of the rev range, I want to smile when I drive my car.
t about engine noise or cylinder count. There is no cooking BMW that has a 4-pot.GTEYE said:
Some of the comments on here read like they are written by people who still live in 2004 when the E46 was alive and well.
Sadly BMW (and the rest of the industry) are living in 2018, and have to play by the rules of the game now, however unfair they may be.
As an F30 driver, I for one think they've done a decent job (not perfect), and the new one looks to improve on the driver/handling focus.
But we need to face reality, the year is 2018 not 2004!
Yeah sure. Which is another way of saying just give up on European cars. What business do they have to regulate cars that are being exported? Maybe for cars kept within the EU. Let them kill their industry. Sadly BMW (and the rest of the industry) are living in 2018, and have to play by the rules of the game now, however unfair they may be.
As an F30 driver, I for one think they've done a decent job (not perfect), and the new one looks to improve on the driver/handling focus.
But we need to face reality, the year is 2018 not 2004!
By now you must have guessed I am in the US. I went and bought a Camaro SS with a 6.2L N/A 8 cylinder. It runs on the GM alpha platform which was designed to improve on the E46 BMW. If you see Motortrend they have this $52K car keeping up with and beating the M4 - engine sound pumped through speakers edition.
What a joke BMW has become. No self respecting car enthusiast would buy this stuff. It is for badge poseurs now. This is coming from an American perspective. I have never bought an American car in my life. I never respected them. But it’s amazing how the tides have turned. Between the Camaro and the Mustang you have some of best cars this side of Porsche.
If you must stick to European it seems Porsche is the only game in town anymore. Somehow I don’t fully trust all those reviews of how “they’ve gotten electric steering right” or how “this 2.0 turbo loses nothing over the boxer 6”. I have a lot of doubts about the automotive press just making excuses for Porsche. How does a 2.0 turbo drive like a N/A Boxer 6? I wasn’t born yesterday.
Maccar said:
A 330i should only ever have a 3 litre straight six and a manual gearbox. Can’t get too excited about this one sadly...
The 330i is now called the 340i and both a straight six and a manual gearbox*. It also has more power than an E46 M3.Keep up. It's 2018, not 2004.
(*not that any actual buyers choose the manual, because the auto is, well, better)
kambites said:
Ares said:
Problem is, car manufacturers tend to be more focused on people that buy cars. And people that buy these cars prefer autos.
Yup, which is why before long I suspect you won't be able to buy a 3-series with an internal combustion engine at all. Fractk said:
GTEYE said:
Some of the comments on here read like they are written by people who still live in 2004 when the E46 was alive and well.
Sadly BMW (and the rest of the industry) are living in 2018, and have to play by the rules of the game now, however unfair they may be.
As an F30 driver, I for one think they've done a decent job (not perfect), and the new one looks to improve on the driver/handling focus.
But we need to face reality, the year is 2018 not 2004!
Yeah sure. Which is another way of saying just give up on European cars. What business do they have to regulate cars that are being exported? Maybe for cars kept within the EU. Let them kill their industry. Sadly BMW (and the rest of the industry) are living in 2018, and have to play by the rules of the game now, however unfair they may be.
As an F30 driver, I for one think they've done a decent job (not perfect), and the new one looks to improve on the driver/handling focus.
But we need to face reality, the year is 2018 not 2004!
By now you must have guessed I am in the US. I went and bought a Camaro SS with a 6.2L N/A 8 cylinder. It runs on the GM alpha platform which was designed to improve on the E46 BMW. If you see Motortrend they have this $52K car keeping up with and beating the M4 - engine sound pumped through speakers edition.
What a joke BMW has become. No self respecting car enthusiast would buy this stuff. It is for badge poseurs now. This is coming from an American perspective. I have never bought an American car in my life. I never respected them. But it’s amazing how the tides have turned. Between the Camaro and the Mustang you have some of best cars this side of Porsche.
If you must stick to European it seems Porsche is the only game in town anymore. Somehow I don’t fully trust all those reviews of how “they’ve gotten electric steering right” or how “this 2.0 turbo loses nothing over the boxer 6”. I have a lot of doubts about the automotive press just making excuses for Porsche. How does a 2.0 turbo drive like a N/A Boxer 6? I wasn’t born yesterday.
.....but they will never compete with top class European models, like for like, for true driver engagement.
Even the yank motoring press, with their stars/stripes tweaked rose tinted glasses, admit that the best sports saloons still come from Europe.
kambites said:
Ares said:
It won't got that way while I'm alive. But you can already see the impact of the 330e. That WILL grow.
Either you're quite a lot older than me or have very different ideas of the time-frame then. 
I'll bet a weeks' pension, there will be an ICE 3-series (equivalent) in 50 years.
Ares said:
alfabadass said:
Never thought i'd see the day where an Alfa is the car to beat for BMW!
Thats down to how good the Giulia is, rather than how bad the BMW is.Ares said:
I don't think it is different. My current car revs higher than all but two of my history of cars (a 13,000rpm red-line race Caterham and a 8500rpm Exige), it just has a lot more flexibility so that its not hard work if you don't want it to be. It also provides as much gear changing input if I want, but doesn't if I don't want. It gives huge flexibility, and therein becomes the practical benefit.
Forgive me, but it doesn't provide as much gear changing input. You flick a switch (paddle), the electronics do everything else.Some of us enjoy the art of driving and the feeling of (mechanical) involvement with the car, and don't like the progress towards Playstation-like interfaces.
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